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Funkyterrance wrote:It's paragraphs like this that make it hard to see your side, Juan. You're attempting to downgrade your own offense to make it appear as though you're not nearly as thoughtless as those you accuse when anyone can see that you are at least as inconsiderate as the "baddies" you repeatedly refer to. Just your use of the term "some junk" betrays your attitude toward an issue which, while may have had exactly the same effect on others as the thread of mention had on you, is hurried off by you as more or less a trifling matter.
Funkyterrance wrote:Gee, the tone of that sentence sounds so eerily familiar...
Funkyterrance wrote:The graphic nature of your personal example makes it no more valid.
Funkyterrance wrote:You've repeatedly made the assumption that your second-hand involvement in the Holocaust(for lack of a better term, no offense intended) is so obviously more legitimate than the varied hallowed grounds of others.
Funkyterrance wrote:Thus far, no one has agreed with you on this point and I, for one, can tell you that's it's not for the sake of argument.
Funkyterrance wrote:What makes you think you can dictate the relative emotional weight of any subject? The graphic nature of your personal example makes it no more valid. I feel compassion for your position but comparing the magnitude of your associations with that of others is ridiculous and I find it difficult to wrap my mind around the fact that you really do believe that those things that you personally find offensive are so certainly more valid than those of others
saxitoxin wrote:IIRC qwert's grandfather also survived the Nazis ... though was murdered by the U.S. Air Force.
I have yet to see qwert start a thread demanding everyone sob hysterically in his general direction. And I think he has a much firmer claim to victim status than the OP (as much as anyone can claim to be a victim on the sole basis of happening to know someone who was victimized). One of many reasons why the premise of this thread is so revolting.
aage wrote:We're in the water, but still going! I like my new trainJuan_Bottom wrote:TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Okay, Juan. Let me start simply.
What do you think of A Modest Proposal? Swifte uses satire to bring attention to the suffering of the then-starving Irish. From what I've gathered from your posts, this essay is unacceptable. Swifte was using the suffering of millions to propose the consumption of children for food in a cheeky manner. Does it really matter that he does this to bring reform to English-Irish relations?
I did not read it.
http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html
Once you start reading, you'll want to continue, so don't worry if it seems long. It's fortunate that it's nothing like any of your posts.
Also, if you have not read the relevant material, how is it that your reply is fifteen lines longer than what I just quoted? The rest might as well be instructions on how to use Internet Explorer; lenthy, but not at all useful or relevant.
DoomYoshi wrote:So let's get this straight.
Your grandfather is Jewish and happens to be one of 260 families in Norway that were sent to Auschwitz.
Your grandmother is either black or Catholic - since those are the two groups that the KKK killed.
You have a Spanish/English name.
You find it not bothersome at all to spew invective against the Catholics, meaning you are a member of the KKK.
Something in this story doesn't add up.
Juan_Bottom wrote:Also, that story is pretty similar to mine, and it seems pretty conceited of you to say that X person has more claim to be upset about the similar treatment of his relative than Y person.
saxitoxin wrote:Juan_Bottom wrote:Also, that story is pretty similar to mine, and it seems pretty conceited of you to say that X person has more claim to be upset about the similar treatment of his relative than Y person.
Qwert has more claim to be upset about the treatment of his grandfather because his grandfather was, in fact, killed. Fifteen years ago.
Your contortionist attempts to try to get everyone to empathize with your self-perceived and self-assigned victim status now has you competing against others for who experienced the worst was acquainted with someone who experienced the worst ... it just gets weirder and weirder.
Symmetry wrote:saxitoxin wrote:Juan_Bottom wrote:Also, that story is pretty similar to mine, and it seems pretty conceited of you to say that X person has more claim to be upset about the similar treatment of his relative than Y person.
Qwert has more claim to be upset about the treatment of his grandfather because his grandfather was, in fact, killed. Fifteen years ago.
Your contortionist attempts to try to get everyone to empathize with your self-perceived and self-assigned victim status now has you competing against others for who experienced the worst was acquainted with someone who experienced the worst ... it just gets weirder and weirder.
Are you saying that you want Qwert to complain before you consider this legitimate?
saxitoxin wrote:Symmetry wrote:saxitoxin wrote:Juan_Bottom wrote:Also, that story is pretty similar to mine, and it seems pretty conceited of you to say that X person has more claim to be upset about the similar treatment of his relative than Y person.
Qwert has more claim to be upset about the treatment of his grandfather because his grandfather was, in fact, killed. Fifteen years ago.
Your contortionist attempts to try to get everyone to empathize with your self-perceived and self-assigned victim status now has you competing against others for who experienced the worst was acquainted with someone who experienced the worst ... it just gets weirder and weirder.
Are you saying that you want Qwert to complain before you consider this legitimate?
Before I consider what legitimate? That Juan is a victim of the Holocaust by process of acquaintance? If Anne Frank logged onto Conquer Club it wouldn't make that legitimate.
Juan_Bottom wrote: they're just personal attacks. This is a typical sign of a megalomaniac.
Juan_Bottom wrote:you are a member of NAMBLA
Symmetry wrote:So what do you mean by more claim?
Funkyterrance wrote:Symmetry wrote:So what do you mean by more claim?
Well, to be fair, Juan has constructed a whole system of "what is offensive" where the weight of each individual offense is not decided by the emotional impact on the recipient but on the general consensus of "minds past and present" so yeah, JB needs to convincingly show why his personal reaction to the Holocaust joke thread is more valid than say tgd's reaction to a thread bashing the Catholic Church.
Jb is the one getting technical/scientific about the appropriate reactions to the multicolored rainbow that makes up all potentially offensive remarks/threads so why not discuss the strength of firsthand experiences versus secondhand, thirdhand and so on?
I don't personally think the details of the offense matter as long as someone is legitimately offended but Juan has made it abundantly clear that the details do matter so it's up to him to defend this monster he's created.
Juan_Bottom wrote:DoomYoshi wrote:So let's get this straight.
Your grandfather is Jewish and happens to be one of 260 families in Norway that were sent to Auschwitz.
Your grandmother is either black or Catholic - since those are the two groups that the KKK killed.
You have a Spanish/English name.
You find it not bothersome at all to spew invective against the Catholics, meaning you are a member of the KKK.
Something in this story doesn't add up.
My grandmother is a Native American.
Kinda personal, isn't it? We don't know for sure what happened. The town's records are missing. Locals in Norway said that my great-aunt was taken to Germany. But we don't know what happened to anyone but my great-grandfather.
My name is Spanish.
You do not find it at all bothersome that Catholic priests have raped children and are being protected from prosecution from the law by members of the church? Meaning you are a member of NAMBLA.
Well said.The Pope salutes you.DoomYoshi wrote:Juan_Bottom wrote:DoomYoshi wrote:So let's get this straight.
Your grandfather is Jewish and happens to be one of 260 families in Norway that were sent to Auschwitz.
Your grandmother is either black or Catholic - since those are the two groups that the KKK killed.
You have a Spanish/English name.
You find it not bothersome at all to spew invective against the Catholics, meaning you are a member of the KKK.
Something in this story doesn't add up.
My grandmother is a Native American.
Kinda personal, isn't it? We don't know for sure what happened. The town's records are missing. Locals in Norway said that my great-aunt was taken to Germany. But we don't know what happened to anyone but my great-grandfather.
My name is Spanish.
You do not find it at all bothersome that Catholic priests have raped children and are being protected from prosecution from the law by members of the church? Meaning you are a member of NAMBLA.
Yea, you are right on this, I'm sorry for that post.
I do care what the Catholic Church does. However, compared to the alternatives of "Get-Rich-Quick/Creationism" Protestantism (e.g. Joel Olsteen) or "Straps Bomb to Chest because there is no Halal meat at the Office Building Jewish Deli" Islam, I would prefer Catholicism.
chang50 wrote:Details like the Holocaust victims and their families actually being victims as compared to the hierarchy of the Catholic church who have repeatedly victimised people in their care historically?
Juan wrote:At the start of this thread I used the R word, and you took exception to that. I don't necessarily understand why anyone would believe that that word still holds enough power to be unusable in civilized conversation. But I accept the argument from authority that I don't need to understand it, if you do. I remember back in the day you mentioned that you had someone in your family who was mentally challenged or it has something to do with your job or some junk I'm not sure because I can't remember.....
Anyway, the point is that I accept that you are in the position to tell me that it's not ok.
I did not read it. Start over. Wait, . .
Are you saying that Holocaust humor is satire? Why aren't you even using Comedys that take place during the Holocaust as your examples? Like To Be or Not to Be or the Great Dictator?
...
But
All of my ancestor on my grandfather's side were killed by the Nazis except for him. My grandmother was an orphan who's brother was shot and killed by the KKK. After that, they strung his body up in a tree and used him for target practice. I was not raised by my parents, I was raised by these two people.
Now
When you say that the R word is still very offensive, I accept it, because it came from you. But when I say that it's unacceptable to make Holocaust jokes, you tell me that no one gives a shit and you make elaborate arguments about pop satire to make me look senile.
chang50 wrote: Details like the Holocaust victims and their families actually being victims as compared to the hierarchy of the Catholic church who have repeatedly victimised people in their care historically?
saxitoxin wrote:chang50 wrote: Details like the Holocaust victims and their families actually being victims as compared to the hierarchy of the Catholic church who have repeatedly victimised people in their care historically?
Anne Frank was a victim. Juan is not a victim, despite his revolting demands everyone recognize him as a living Anne Frank.
In general, victims don't tend to throw loud tantrums demanding everyone recognize them as victims. They're usually not as borderline gleeful at the opportunity to relish the public with every detail of their victimization-(through-process-of-acquaintance) as Juan has been. Insomnia-Juan is what is referred to as a "Holocaust Tourist."
saxitoxin wrote:Anne Frank was a victim. Juan is not a victim, despite his revolting demands everyone recognize him as a living Anne Frank.
In general, victims don't tend to throw loud tantrums demanding everyone recognize them as victims. They're usually not as borderline gleeful at the opportunity to relish the public with every detail of their victimization-(through-process-of-acquaintance) as Juan has been. Insomnia-Juan is what is referred to as a "Holocaust Tourist."
Funkyterrance wrote:chang50 wrote:Details like the Holocaust victims and their families actually being victims as compared to the hierarchy of the Catholic church who have repeatedly victimised people in their care historically?
I you haven't noticed, CC is not a courtroom and there are no laws so to speak about what is offensive and what isn't, barring the forum guidelines. So no, there is not nescessarily any more validity to Juan's case than tgd's unless the community as a whole agrees that it's so. In fact, thus far it appears as though more individuals are claiming that JB's second hand involvement in the Holocaust has no more if not less validity than any other "butthurt" that might occur on here. Juan, and now chang, are assuming facts(second hand affects of the Holocaust are somehow more valid than the affects of firsthand insults to one's church) to base their entire case when it appears as though this is not even the general consensus. For the umpteenth time, the Holocaust, due to it's not-so-recent nature, is not considered by some to have the gravity that JB insists it should.
Need I remind those out there that JB and others have a tendency to mock/demonize the church and those of faith, not discuss it/them? Surely this needs to be taken into consideration as well.
Lootifer wrote:saxitoxin wrote:chang50 wrote: Details like the Holocaust victims and their families actually being victims as compared to the hierarchy of the Catholic church who have repeatedly victimised people in their care historically?
Anne Frank was a victim. Juan is not a victim, despite his revolting demands everyone recognize him as a living Anne Frank.
In general, victims don't tend to throw loud tantrums demanding everyone recognize them as victims. They're usually not as borderline gleeful at the opportunity to relish the public with every detail of their victimization-(through-process-of-acquaintance) as Juan has been. Insomnia-Juan is what is referred to as a "Holocaust Tourist."
Ouch! I can feel the heat on that little guy from over here!
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