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Post Any Evidence For God Here

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Why I care!

Postby Viceroy63 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:17 pm

crispybits wrote:Do you care whether or not what you believe is true? If you do care, how do you know that your current set of beliefs is true?


Do I care if I live or die? Yes I do care.

The only question here is, "Do I want to live or Die?"

In Death there is nothing so for those who face the death penalty of sin willingly, it does not matter. Because they will not be suffering an eternity in pain and suffering at the hands of a sadistic god. A merciful God who created humans mortal for the purpose of being merciful in the first place, will simply let them die out of existence if that is what they choose.

But if they choose to live then this same merciful God would be just by providing every avenue and possibility for their salvation. Salvation from what? From the fact that we will die unless reborn into a Spiritual Existence.

How do I know that death is final? because I know of no one in my life who can collaborate that there is a life after death. So how can I then preach that? But if what the Bible claims is consistent with what I see around me then I can reasonably conclude that death is final.

In death there is nothing but the end to suffering that sin brings with it. But in life there is the opportunity of continued growth and understanding. And perfection and love.

We take too much for granted in life and forget the basic questions, What does it all mean? Who am I? Why am I here? These are questions consistently asked by each and every human being upon reaching the age of understanding. But no one can truly answer them. But the Bible does.

To say that Humans authored the Bible is to say that man is capable of answering questions to which he has no access to their answers. And if this Bible has evidence to support it's own claims, then that is all the evidence that I need to know that the answers provided me in the Bible are true and are from God through a divine source of information that man simply has no access to any other way except from God himself.

And as it happens, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence in support of Bible Claims. Belief in anything should never be blind but demand proof. During this whole thread, proof has been offered and rejected by the wisdom of men. And this will only serve to bite those rejector's of the truth, right in their very asses on the day of the resurrection from the dead. But hey, that's their problem. I, for my part, tried.

Because if everything that the Bible has claimed is true then so must be the future prophecies and promises of God also be true. If no prophecy or promise of God has failed then that is all the evidence needed that there is a future Hope in Jesus. A hope where there will be no suffering, no pain and no tears except tears of Joy and of incredible love.

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."
-Revelations 21:4

Do I care to see that? Yes I do.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby crispybits on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:21 pm

Do you care if what you believe in is true? If you do care, how do you know that your current set of beliefs is true?

(It's really not a difficult question, I'm not sure how you could have jumped from that to "Do I care if I live or die" - that is not the question I asked)
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby warmonger1981 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:24 pm

Common mistake of western theology that Jesus died so we can all go to heaven. Its not supposed to be like a contract and he was our ticket home.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby Viceroy63 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:26 pm

crispybits wrote:Do you care if what you believe in is true? If you do care, how do you know that your current set of beliefs is true?

(It's really not a difficult question, I'm not sure how you could have jumped from that to "Do I care if I live or die" - that is not the question I asked)


That question is not a specific question so what is your point? I answered you and you rejected the answer. So that is your problem. If you ask specific questions then specific answers can be provided. But you asked a rather general question and then say that I am wrong for not answering you in the way that you wanted me to answer you???
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby crispybits on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:41 pm

warmonger1981 wrote:Did I just get crispy to admit to believing in a God? I believe in a God but not one that had been manipulated by humans or stories that are written. Not disclaiming all written religion I just find flaws in all religion. Religious leaders will use religion to coerce people into a certain mold. But with the way society as a whole is going I see no other way than a one world government with total control of all aspects of life either it be financial control or whatever. Maybe not in my lifetime but I feel it is inevitable. All in the name of progress and protection.


I had a wall post from warmonger about this, so I'll put the conversation back where it belongs. He was referencing this post:

crispybits wrote:
warmonger1981 wrote:How about I say I'm right when it happens. Until then I look like a fool and will be lost in your memory. But if I'm right. Aaagghh shit.


Yep sure, you'll get no disagreement from me.

I'm going to predict right now that the Green Bay Packers will win the superbowl every year for five years between 2025 and 2029. God gave me a vision last night as I slept that this would come to pass. How about we say I'm right until that happens. Are you going to go out and place any sort of wager on that? The supposed stakes with your "assume I'm right" statement are much, much higher (for example if you're wrong and Islam / Judaism / other are the correct path to God, then I'm screwed if I chose to believe in the Christian myths)


I've tried 3-4 times now to type out a single paragraph response to him claiming that this analogy/parody means I'm admitting the existence of God. Every time I end up insulting either his intelligence or his integrity, so I'm not going to post them. I think the above speaks for itself perfectly adequately without me adding a whole bunch of enjoyable but ultimately pointless flaming on top.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby crispybits on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:47 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:
crispybits wrote:Do you care if what you believe in is true? If you do care, how do you know that your current set of beliefs is true?

(It's really not a difficult question, I'm not sure how you could have jumped from that to "Do I care if I live or die" - that is not the question I asked)


That question is not a specific question so what is your point? I answered you and you rejected the answer. So that is your problem. If you ask specific questions then specific answers can be provided. But you asked a rather general question and then say that I am wrong for not answering you in the way that you wanted me to answer you???


How can that not be a specific question? (and by the way I never said you were wrong in what you wrote - you might have been, but your answer wasn't something I gave any thought to because it wasn't an answer to the question I asked, it was an answer to a question which you invented)

I'll rephrase it, would it matter to you if I could prove irrefutably that the things you believe in are not true?

(and please note I'm not saying I can, just asking a hypothetical, if I could prove your beliefs not true, would that change your mind and force you to abandon those beliefs or would you still believe in them regardless?)

And the second part is why do you currently believe that what you believe is true, as in what standards do you use to differentiate between something that is true, and something that is not true? What is the test for truth or not truth in your personal mental model of reality?
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby notyou2 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:58 pm

I expect his reply will be....because a bunch of guys recorded it in a book a couple centuries after it happened and then the book was modified several times over the next 1000 years. How can you not believe it is true?
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:41 pm

notyou2 wrote:I expect his reply will be....because a bunch of guys recorded it in a book a couple centuries after it happened and then the book was modified several times over the next 1000 years. How can you not believe it is true?


OH YES! I'VE BEEN WAITING THIS!!!


NOTYOU2, IT'S ALL TRUE BECAUSE, .... :



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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby warmonger1981 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:50 pm

My wall post said you seen god in your dream. It wasn't meant to be you literally believing in a God as I know your post of the packers was meant as a joke. Or more like insulting me in a beat around the bush way. No need to be a prick.
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Postby Symmetry on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:15 am

warmonger1981 wrote:My wall post said you seen god in your dream. It wasn't meant to be you literally believing in a God as I know your post of the packers was meant as a joke. Or more like insulting me in a beat around the bush way. No need to be a prick.


Was the bush on fire? I hear Abrahamic religious types consider that as a valid form of communication.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby crispybits on Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:31 am

So me presenting the argument you started in this thread and tried to continue in private, with no indication of humour in the private bit - "You claimed God came go you in a dream" - is me being a prick? If you want to have a private discussion with me about God then you're more than welcome to PM me, and for as long as I have the motivation to do so I'll have that discussion with you no problem. But I won't have half the discussion here and half in private. If you make a claim here which you will only explain in private, then I'll bring that explanation back here, because other people read this thread too and I'd like to think that any claim made in public should be explained in public and the maker of the claim should be willing to defend it in public (crazy huh?)

By the way my post about the superbowl was not a joke or an insult, it was a logically identical parody of the argument you had put forward, and it's intention was to demonstrate why arguments of that logical form (Pascal's wager) are flawed. If you felt insulted by it, then my only possible conclusion from that is that you honestly believed it was a good reason for holding a belief, because if it was just a joke what I posted couldn't possibly have offended you. I hope that you're not so quick to take offence and start insulting people every time someone says they think you're wrong about something.
Last edited by crispybits on Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby crispybits on Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:30 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
notyou2 wrote:I expect his reply will be....because a bunch of guys recorded it in a book a couple centuries after it happened and then the book was modified several times over the next 1000 years. How can you not believe it is true?


OH YES! I'VE BEEN WAITING THIS!!!

NOTYOU2, IT'S ALL TRUE BECAUSE, .... :


Image removed

BOW BEFORE THE WHEEL OF POWER! YOU FNARKLES SHALL NEVER ATTAIN IMMORTALITY!!!


Guys, at least let him have the chance to commit or not commit fallacy before you accuse him of it.

By the way, I wasn't only talking about religious belief. If a guy puts an ad in a paper and says "I have a great used car for sale, perfect runner, low mileage, mint condition, full service history" how do we distinguish the truth or not truth in that statement? If somebody says "chocolate is my favourite ice cream flavour" how do we distinguish the truth or not truth in that statement? If somebody says "I feel jealous of that other guy over there" how do we distinguish the truth or not truth of that statement? Obviously there are specific methods that differ in each, but there is an underlying principle to these methods. There's a fundamental process. I'm asking Viceroy what his fundamental process is when he hears any claim about anything, religious or not, to be able to distinguish true claims from false claims.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:41 am

crispybits wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
notyou2 wrote:I expect his reply will be....because a bunch of guys recorded it in a book a couple centuries after it happened and then the book was modified several times over the next 1000 years. How can you not believe it is true?


OH YES! I'VE BEEN WAITING THIS!!!

NOTYOU2, IT'S ALL TRUE BECAUSE, .... :


Image removed

BOW BEFORE THE WHEEL OF POWER! YOU FNARKLES SHALL NEVER ATTAIN IMMORTALITY!!!


Guys, at least let him have the chance to commit or not commit fallacy before you accuse him of it.

By the way, I wasn't only talking about religious belief. If a guy puts an ad in a paper and says (1) "I have a great used car for sale, perfect runner, low mileage, mint condition, full service history" how do we distinguish the truth or not truth in that statement? If somebody says (2) "chocolate is my favourite ice cream flavour" how do we distinguish the truth or not truth in that statement? If somebody says (3) "I feel jealous of that other guy over there" how do we distinguish the truth or not truth of that statement? Obviously there are specific methods that differ in each, but there is an underlying principle to these methods. There's a fundamental process. I'm asking Viceroy what his fundamental process is when he hears any claim about anything, religious or not, to be able to distinguish true claims from false claims.


(1) The marginal costs of verifying such claims would very likely offset the benefits of taking/trying that offer; therefore, seek substitutes.
(2) Receive government funding. Conduct secret tests: Which flavor does he most often buy for himself? How does his brain react to eating chocolate? etc.
(3) Ask questions. Attain mutual understanding--if possible, then determine if he's really jealous of that person.

How would you describe this fundamental process/underlying principle?
"My sensual experience, as well as others', is reliable enough"?
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby crispybits on Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:00 am

I can only describe my underlying process, and I don't want to influence Viceroy's answer by clouding it with my answer, because his underlying process may be different. That's what I'm trying to find out.

Ignoring the specifics of how you tell the truth of any particular statement as you've done above BBS, I'm looking for what the process is behind that. In order to devise a method of telling if a statement is true or false, you have to have concepts in your head beforehand about what true and false are or mean, and a fundamental way of relating those concepts to your experience and therefore to the actual reality described by those statements.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby warmonger1981 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:06 am

I had your moms bush on fire Symmetry. Does that count chomo?
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby Symmetry on Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:55 am

warmonger1981 wrote:I had your moms bush on fire Symmetry. Does that count chomo?


I think you might need to see a doctor, dude.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby warmonger1981 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:33 am

Then done be a wise ass. Enough said.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby crispybits on Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:37 am

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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:43 am

warmonger1981 wrote:I had your moms bush on fire Symmetry. Does that count chomo?


Subject: 2/3 of Americans Believe in Conspiracy Theories

warmonger1981 wrote:...are you a troll or just a 6 year old trying to be an adult?
:-$


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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby warmonger1981 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:55 am

Wtf does that have anything to do with this Andy. Lets stop now before this gets outta control please.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby comic boy on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:02 pm

warmonger1981 wrote:Wtf does that have anything to do with this Andy. Lets stop now before this gets outta control please.


Are you posting all this nonsense to win a bet , are spelling and grammar a foreign concept to you, do you not see the irony in accusing another of being 6 years old ?
Im a TOFU miSfit
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby crispybits on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:07 pm

My first instinct would be to defend the defenceless against this vicious intellectual attack, but he called me a prick so... carry on
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:21 pm

crispybits wrote:I can only describe my underlying process, and I don't want to influence Viceroy's answer by clouding it with my answer, because his underlying process may be different. That's what I'm trying to find out.

Ignoring the specifics of how you tell the truth of any particular statement as you've done above BBS, I'm looking for what the process is behind that. In order to devise a method of telling if a statement is true or false, you have to have concepts in your head beforehand about what true and false are or mean, and a fundamental way of relating those concepts to your experience and therefore to the actual reality described by those statements.


Dude, I doubt everything. I doubt myself. I doubt this keyboard on which I type. I am...


THE RADICAL SKEPTIC.


crispybits wrote:My first instinct would be to defend the defenceless against this vicious intellectual attack, but he called me a prick so... carry on


Sometimes, my friend, the benefits offset the costs of collateral damage.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:26 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:Dude, I doubt everything. I doubt myself. I doubt this keyboard on which I type. I am...

THE RADICAL SKEPTIC.


I'm trying to free your mind. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.


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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:34 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Dude, I doubt everything. I doubt myself. I doubt this keyboard on which I type. I am...

THE RADICAL SKEPTIC.


I'm trying to free your mind. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.


--Andy


I took both of the pills, so whatever, bro. You and your doors ain't got nothing on me.
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