Best (Randomness) Of 2012 Game Over!

[Nebuchadnezer]

Seriously?

Because he voted PCM >.>
aww wth, unvote vote Neb
Between him and Kanin, I'm not sure which one hit the scummy radar more today, but none of you are helping me with Kanin, and I'm inclined to believe that PCM is town. I have found Neb to be extremely scummy today, let me go and get some quotes. . .

GG IB I'll leave my comments for afterwards.
Any of our cases from D1 are dried up. We need to look at yesterday to see what sticks out. Imma going to do a readthrough to see what sticks out.

Well, let's start with known facts...who did you protect last night?

This after reading it a second time sticks out like a sore thumb, I'm a bodyguard for pities sake! Whoever I protected is irrelevant without a doc in game. D2 it was relevant b/c of roleblock/doc/protection save when hank Doc'd me. Now, not so much, because you know if i guessed right i'd be dead right now.

Why does it matter? Because someone might have tracked you...and if you don't give the right answer...Boom! You're hung. Why wouldn't you give the information for pities sake?

Vote pancakemix I think his posts seem off. Also, he forced Rishaed's claim on D1 for crap reasons. Then when Edoc tore him up, he quickly backed off. Also, his statement that he would have hammered Doom seems like he's just trying to fit in. I'm all for Pancake on this one.

I admit that he forced my hand on crap reasons, however his statement of being a hypocrite if he didn't makes sense, and he backed off after I claimed, with a jab a edoc while he was at it.

Well, crap...there is the randomness of it all...so do we really have a claimed doc and a body guard on day one? Were we that lucky that we happen to pressure two protective roles? I'm willing to test one of the claims. Given that Hank seemed to be the scummier of the two, I'm willing to go with him. If people really want to vote no lynch, let me know, and I'll take my vote off.[/b]

If the day were a bit longer we could have a better discussion...but...alas, we picked our noses for last few weeks putting off any decisions until deadline time. Fine. On the off chance Hank could be a doc...[color=#FF0000]unvote

Wait, your previous post sounded very certain on the matter.

vote Hank, he's lying.

What exactly happened that you were confident enough to declare that he was lying and now you aren't sure? You can't have made that earlier post based solely on there being a claimed bodyguard and doctor, can you? Is there something else?

Here he's being wishy-washy, in a lets go with the crowd voting mentality. And something else caught my eye here, lucky? outing two protective roles right off the bat isn't fortunate, at most 1 is ok because the scum don't know if he'll be targeted by another protective,watcher/busdriver.

You're right. Lucky was not the correct word...more like unlucky.

Ya, I kinda painted a big target on myself, didn't I? I guess our doc protected me then? I know there's a myriad of other options, but I'll stick with the simplest one for now.

The real question is...did anyone get any information last night? Given that we have at least 2 protective roles, do we want them to come out with any information?

I could be miscontruing here, but why would this be the simplest option? Its a nice way to insert town cred without risk, and the people with the biggest targets on their backs would have been me and Hank.
IB had called him out for "flipping a coin" on whether or not to vote doom or someone else, and then IB gets NK'd. (My fault probably for painting a bullseye on his back). And his response makes him look like a PRish role, so its logical that scum would go after him.
The short story is that Nebs recent posts have been scummy for me this is just my case behind it

Seriously...I get Doom hung (well, he did do it himself, actually) and somehow you're trying to blame Iron's death on me? I think you're taking my posts out of context. Go back and read them in the context I wrote them. It will make more sense.

[rishaed]

No I'm not trying to blame IB's death on you. Look at the parentheses for pities sake. I give the information out willingly, but it lets Mafia know who I might try to protect on future nights. . . which IMHO can only be bad. I don't think we have a RB'er b/c he would have come out with his information and boom! we have a lynch. Because who would believe that we got lucky enough that the doc protected me on the night that I either protected the NK/ or was going to get NK'd myself? It'd be Occams Razor right, go with the simplest explanation. And I know you voted doom b4 he made his mistake, but depending on what was going on and the fact that he was our best lead, It doesn't make you town/scum, and after he made his mistake bussing him would be the logical thing to do right?
You still haven't explained why you've been so willing to BW on what the crowd is going for all the time.
Plus in terms of wanting answers can we get a prod on Kanin?

[Nebuchadnezer]

No I'm not trying to blame IB's death on you. Look at the parentheses for pities sake. I give the information out willingly, but it lets Mafia know who I might try to protect on future nights. . . which IMHO can only be bad. I don't think we have a RB'er b/c he would have come out with his information and boom! we have a lynch. Because who would believe that we got lucky enough that the doc protected me on the night that I either protected the NK/ or was going to get NK'd myself? It'd be Occams Razor right, go with the simplest explanation. And I know you voted doom b4 he made his mistake, but depending on what was going on and the fact that he was our best lead, It doesn't make you town/scum, and after he made his mistake bussing him would be the logical thing to do right?
You still haven't explained why you've been so willing to BW on what the crowd is going for all the time.
Plus in terms of wanting answers can we get a prod on Kanin?

First off...who you protect one night has no bearing on who you protect the next night. And even if it does, your job as bodyguard is to die protecting someone. That IS the whole point of your role! Poor WIFOM arguement, rishaed.

Secondly, about the roleblocker...is it not possible to have a mafia roleblocker? I'm pretty sure he's not coming out with his night actions.

Thirdly, I'm not sure I understand the term "bussing" in your sentence. Would you consider it "bussing" when I was voting him early? I guess I don't get your logic here. Wouldn't your logic apply to everyone who voted Doom then? Why would it make me any more suspicious that anyone else on the vote? Please explain.

Finally, who did I bandwagon on "all of the time"?

1. I went against the grain on voting for the doctor after he claimed. I did pull off of him on the chance that he was in fact a doctor...if that's bandwagoning...you have an odd definition.
2. I was on Doom early...not a bandwagoner.
3. I just made the first case on pancakemix today...how is that a bandwagon?

So, please don't use the generalization that I am "willing to BW on what the crowd is going for all the time", when that's not even close to the truth.

Shoddy, shoddy arguements...

Neb

[spiesr]

First off...who you protect one night has no bearing on who you protect the next night. And even if it does, your job as bodyguard is to die protecting someone. That IS the whole point of your role! Poor WIFOM arguement, rishaed.

It's ultimately a WIFOM situation, but it stands to reason that, unless something changes during a Day, rishaed would be more likely to protect the person he did last night again than he would any other individual. If the mafia think they know who rishaed will be protecting it seems like that would lead to target somebody else to increase their chances of killing an important role. So, it's not that rishaed is afraid the scum will try to kill him if they can guess where he is going, but that they won't.

Secondly, about the roleblocker...is it not possible to have a mafia roleblocker? I'm pretty sure he's not coming out with his night actions.

I believe what rishaed was saying is that he thinks that there isn't a Town Roleblocker as if there was said person could have announced who they blocked back on Day 2 under the assumption that they had stopped the kill. Since nobody said anything about he concludes that the kill was prevented by the Doctor saving him. I am not sure what point he is trying to make with this tough.

Thirdly, I'm not sure I understand the term "bussing" in your sentence. Would you consider it "bussing" when I was voting him early? I guess I don't get your logic here. Wouldn't your logic apply to everyone who voted Doom then? Why would it make me any more suspicious that anyone else on the vote? Please explain.

Essentially the point here is that your actions with respect to DoomYoshi don't necessarily make you any less likely to be scum as well. They don't really make you more likely, just not less.

2. I was on Doom early...not a bandwagoner.

You were the third vote on DoomYoshi on Day 2. The second vote was a bandwagon vote, so I don't see why the third couldn't be considered one as well. It's like you were the one to revive that case or anything. At that point in time things were moving in that direction and nowhere else, to the extent that DoomYoshi ended up claiming before a fourth vote was cast.

[Nebuchadnezer]

Fair enough. Points taken.

[rishaed]

I'm not going to requote what speisr so candidly explained for me. (He was correct on all points though). What I was trying to say by bussing was that sometimes you put a vote on a scum buddy, only to take it off when they make a convincing fakeclaim, it usually gives a bit of town cred, so on and so forth. However Doom botched his claim, so basically everyone except speisr, IMO doesn't get the cred for "finding" scum, because anyone who could possibly be scum, ( you for ex.), would look like scum if they took their vote off after it came out that he botched it.
A suggestion though. I want more information from Kanin, for a particular reason, he's already softclaimed, so I want a hardclaim from him. As long as the mod would be so nice to prod him for us, I'm sure we can get a claim out of him today. So, neither is anyone going for the nitpicking I was doing, though you did generously react Though for the above reasons I did feel it was a little bit scummy.
I'm going back to Kanin. unvote vote Kanin

[gregwolf121]

unvote

[spiesr]

unvote

Why don't you give your reasoning for this action so that it may contribute to the furthering of discussion?

[gregwolf121]

my reasoning is that pancake has adequately defended himself against the case which was presented against him. so i feel that my vote on him is now unwarranted.

[edocsil]

Well, let's start with known facts...who did you protect last night?

.....

Why does it matter? Because someone might have tracked you...and if you don't give the right answer...Boom! You're hung. Why wouldn't you give the information for pities sake?

Spiesr has already explained why this is bad, so I won't bash you for it any further, but its fair to say igmeoy. As someone who is having a very hard time staying active I can't in good faith hound PCM for the same things I'm doing.

I will vote Kanin ambiguous soft claims to power when they are unwarranted are scummy, I would like him to claim so the docs can know if he is worth protecting, or if he is trying to draw fire from the scum with a softclaim. At this point I don't think anyone can tell the truth and the night is going to get mucked up because of it.

[spiesr]

my reasoning is that pancake has adequately defended himself against the case which was presented against him. so i feel that my vote on him is now unwarranted.

Could you provide a more specific answer as to what parts of his defense convinced you to change you mind? Document your thought process somewhat so your posts have some content.

[jonty125]

Vote Count
Kanin Usagi (3) - thechuck51 rishead; edocsil;
pancakemix (2) - Nebuchadnezar; spieser;

Deadline is Friday 22 February @ 1600 GMT. With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. If the vote count were to remain the same until deadline [b]Kanin Usagi[/b] would be lynched.

[pancakemix]

I do think that Kanin was a bit quick to jump on Doom after he made his mistake, but I'm disinclined to vote him at this juncture for a number of reasons:

1. The number of votes already on him,
2. That being the only real element of the case (apart from the "look how I helped" post he gave today), and
3. The fact that he hasn't posted again today to defend himself.

If point three is left sit, it becomes a reason to vote him, hopefully to get a rise out of him to at least make a case on his own behalf.

[jonty125]

Prod sent to Kanin Usagi.

[spiesr]

With the deadline where it is I am going to strongly suggest that Kanin claim when he shows up. That way we will still have a chance to try get another claim if we decided to believe his.