Classic Cities: Madrid [Quenched]

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Re: Classic Cities: Madrid [8/12]

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:26 pm

This is playing not as I expected for 1v1 games. So far today in my games alone, I have dropped 3 bonuses, and even captured the whole of the centro region by taking one territ. In 1v1 games, players only have 6 regions and it is being decided by end of round 1.

Ideas to give a better game or is this what should be expected by a map of this size?
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Re: Classic Cities: Madrid [8/12]

Postby nolefan5311 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:29 pm

koontz1973 wrote:This is playing not as I expected for 1v1 games. So far today in my games alone, I have dropped 3 bonuses, and even captured the whole of the centro region by taking one territ. In 1v1 games, players only have 6 regions and it is being decided by end of round 1.

Ideas to give a better game or is this what should be expected by a map of this size?


I thought you addressed this specifically by the starting positions? Can you link some game numbers?
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Re: Classic Cities: Madrid [8/12]

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:41 pm

Game 12384170
Game 12384173

2 games with bonuses dropped. With the xml, 8 positions with a max of one given out and an underlying neutral of 2. This should of put the odds of a drop outside of the need to change range. But I have not played that many games today and it needs to change now. Only option I have to to code in neutrals which I hate so the question, ideas anyone?
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Re: Classic Cities: Madrid [8/12]

Postby nolefan5311 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:13 pm

I proposed in a game we just played that perhaps just lower all the 3 and 2 region bonuses to +1's.

What is the community's thoughts on that?
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Re: Classic Cities: Madrid [8/12]

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:22 pm

Nole, agreed, will get maps and xml done first thing in the morning but will check here first to see if anyone has had any bright ideas.
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Re: Classic Cities: Madrid [8/12]

Postby ManBungalow on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:55 pm

The green stuff in the background isn't complementary to the red/green troop numbers.
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Re: Classic Cities: Madrid [8/12]

Postby ManBungalow on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:55 pm

Also, I dropped a bonus.
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Re: Classic Cities: Madrid [8/12]

Postby macbone on Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:56 pm

Hey, koontz, I started a 6-player Term game on Madrid today.

I like the map, but it looks a little cluttered.

None of us dropped bonuses, though. =)
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Re: Classic Cities: Madrid [8/12]

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:16 am

ManBungalow wrote:The green stuff in the background isn't complementary to the red/green troop numbers.

Already noted in a game played. Being sorted now.
macbone wrote:Hey, koontz, I started a 6-player Term game on Madrid today.

I like the map, but it looks a little cluttered.

None of us dropped bonuses, though. =)

Glad you like it but cluttered is what you get. It is a city after all. ;)
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Re: Classic Cities: Madrid [8/12]

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:56 am

Maps and xml.
All bonuses are now 1 apart from the two large ones. They stay. Neutrals that underlined the starting positions have been raised to a 3. Background green now lighter to allow green to be seen better. Will look into these issues later again when new files uploaded.
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Re: Classic Cities: Madrid [20/2]

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:14 am

I suggest to use army circles for this map.

About the bonus issue, let me look into it. I'll post a proposal asap. ;)

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Re: Classic Cities: Madrid [20/2]

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:56 am

I'll give you a better explanation this evening, but the issue with this map imo are exactly the starting positions. Change the bonuses does nothing since if you drop it you still have an advantage.
In a 1vs1 game, if you're lucky enough to receive a 3 regions bonus sp at the drop (and it's not so hard on this map) you have a too high percentage to start with the whole bonus.

So, or you set at least 2 sp for all the 3 regions bonuses or you have to get rid of them at all.

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Re: Classic Cities: Madrid [20/2]

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:03 am

So keep the bonuses as they where. Might just be better remove all starting positions and to place a neutral into each bonus region (2/3 territs) and be done with it.
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Re: Classic Cities: Madrid [20/2]

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:21 am

nobodies, going to keep the new bonuses. The size of map, given that a 2 bonus can be grabbed early, keeping it at a 1 might allow the game to go longer. Not sure on the army circles though, already been accused of making this one over the top.
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2365/madridnew.png
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/7128/madridsmall.png
Madrid3.xml
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Re: Classic Cities: Madrid [20/2]

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:27 am

Sorry but what does that change solves? changing the bonus you did nothing else that make the values ridicolous...no one will go for a bonus anymore in bigger games.
Sorry but i don't think this is a solution, maybe the easier way to go to have longer games, but definitively not a solution. You still have a map on which a player could start with an advantage.

A question did you run the prob tools and looked at the percentages? I have too, but as said I don't think they are bad without sp with 3 regions bonuses.
The only issue without sp is to not make possible to start with the 2 region bonus.
Gimme some hours....it's not hard to balance the drop without change the bonuses, I'll post my proposal this evening, then if you want to lower the bonuses anyway...then it's you map and I'll send the update. But i'm sure we can balance the drop without making the value of a 3 region+3 borders only +1. Com'on, you know that's a nonsense! :P

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