An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

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While there is certainly proof that mutations do occur in nature; There is absolutely no real evidence to support the theory of evolution at this time (for over the past 150 years of "Dino-digging"). Including the sedimentary column.
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There probably is evidence to support this theory, yet scientist are at a loss to explain it appropriately.
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Scientist are great at making shit up when they have no evidence to prove something that is false to begin with.
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I believe in Santa. He's a real person that lives all the way deep at the north pole and brings me presents every year. The presents prove that he's real. I also leave him milk and cookies to snack on and while I don't ever see him, I just know with all my heart, that he is the one who eats all the cookies and milk. Or, I wish I had a dogasaur like Dino.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:54 pm

Pseudonymity wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:I do not believe that the earth is flat because three thousand years ago, before modern science came to be, True scientist had already wrote in the Holy Bible that the earth was in fact round like a circle.

"[It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth,..."
-Isaiah 40:22

[Note] Circle does not mean "Rings."

Thick clouds [are] a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven.
-Job 22:14


Don't know if anyone pointed this out yet, but a circle is flat. As far as I'm aware "sphere of the Earth" doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible, and if it does, it's in direct contradiction with Isaiah 40:22.

No, its not a contradiction, but Viceroy is indeed, incorrect. What you have is an unscientific and therefor scientifically inexact explanation. Some ancient people did know the world was round, but its not clear if the ancient Jews did. Whether they had such an esoteric idea or not is irrelevant, because the Bible is not intended as a scientific explanation of the Earth. It is a text of faith, the history of God and mankind's interactions, not the exact history of Earth.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:13 pm

Viceroy63 wrote: Caution:
The principles of the word "Circle" discuss in this comment may be too simplistic for some adults to follow. If you have a child in grade school it is recommended that the child read this comment along with you. Remember that if the child nods their head up and down, it means,"Yes!"

A Circle is not Flat sir. That is a contradiction in terms. You can draw a circle on a flat piece of paper but that only means that the paper is flat and not the full intended meaning of the word "Circle" or Circular. I have a very circular "Ass" for example. Does that also mean that my ass is also flat like a pancake???

I answered some of this in the post I just submitted.

You need to review your Geometry, because a circle, in math is indeed a 2 dimensional figure. A sphere, or "ball' is the term you seek for an object round all about.

This is part of why young Earthers such as yourself meet with disdain. You decide its perfectly OK to twist definitions when you wish, but claim that no one else can even take verified alternate definitions. For example, the whole bit of Genesis referring to a day in God's time, not humanities' pretty much does leave open a very long time period, enough for evolution to have occured... further, the fact that Genesis omits a good many species we know existed pretty much proves it was not intended as a full and complete catalogue of ALL creatures ever to have been on Earth, rather an explanation of how the creatures the ancient Jews knew about came to be.


Viceroy63 wrote:It is true that the word "Sphere" does not appear in the Bible (at least not in the King James version of the Bible) because the Bible was written in a simple time for a simple people using a simple language. We are the ones who interpret the word "Circle" as a flat dimensional drawing concept. But the Word Circle does encompass the connotation (idea) of a Sphere with it.

Uh.. no YOU feel that you have the right to "interpret" the Bible to fit your narrow vision of what you have been taught.. never mind that your vision ignores a good deal of reality and Biblical study.

The rest of us who are Christian merely read and then take science as something that inherently won't dispute the Bible, but will absolutely fill in or provide explanations for it.. when we let it and don't insist on holding the truth to some narrow pre-concieved notion.

See, that is the error of Dr Morris. He decided when he was young what "the Bible must be saying" and then decided to ignore any evidence to the contrary. He thus ignored, shut himself off from the real truth that is given in those words, he was too concerned with keeping his own private vision to see the real truth. That is arrogance, not God, or Christ and persisting in presenting it as "truth" to and by folks such as yourself is the highest form of blasphemy.

God does not require lies. God does not require twisting of his words. Denying truths that I have seen, that many here have seen for ourselves, is a lie. Conveniently claiming that there "is no evidence" because some idiot who managed to get a couple of letters to his or her name told you it was so is the hieight of not just idiocy, but arrogant heresy.

Viceroy63 wrote:In Isaiah 40:22, the Circle of the earth is more of a reference to the "Equator" of the earth (The Circular Center-line of the planet) and not that the earth is a flat Pancake! For if the image of a flat "Pancake" shape earth was their intended meaning then they had other words to describe Flat such as the word "Naphal."

"So the people shouted when [the priests] blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat,..." [That word Flat carries with it a lot of meanings as well but the idea is simple to understand. The wall was no longer standing but was laid "FLAT" on the ground.]
-Joshua 6:12

And yet, you decide that this matches your view of the world and not ours? Funny, that.
Viceroy63 wrote:One thing about the Bible verses that is common knowledge is that the Bible is very descriptive when telling it's tales. No other Book or hieroglyphics or any writing what so ever is as telling in details as are the stories of the Bible. This is in fact part of the reason why the Bible is so popular in comparison to other ancient writings that do not fair to well and for the most part now exist only in oblivion. The accuracy and description is just a part of why this book, these writings are still with us today.
Actually, the Bible is a mixture of very clear explanations of the world the Jews knew well and much looser explanations of things not yet known by them or known perhaps only through loose influence of other cultures. Descriptions of certain landforms meet the first, descriptions of the origin of Earth, the wide Earth beyond the Middle East fall into the second category.

Viceroy63 wrote:No other King in ancient History is as well documented as King David and other kings as well from the Bible. The stories of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and even Joseph are without equal in any writings of their times. You would think that we would know more about the Great and powerful Pharaoh's of ancient Egypt then we do about a shepherd boy chosen by God to be King, but we don't. And it is this explicit attention to detail that really sets the Bible apart from all other writings of the time.

Actually, the Chinese were very, very good at recording details, as were some other groups.. but in some cases, such as the Maya, we have only recently been able to understand the writing. Our failure to accurately understand writing doesn' t mean it did not exist, though.

Again, when you make such statements, you really just show your lack of knowledge... not a good place when you are trying to convince people to think as you do.
Viceroy63 wrote:If Isaiah wanted to convey the idea that the world is flat, there is a whole assortment of words to describe different kinds of "Flat" all throughout the Bible. But in the case of Isaiah (and other bible verses that describe the earth as circular) and the "Circle of the Earth" there is no such "Flatness" indicated. That would be really bizarre to say that the Bible is really, REALLY, descriptive everywhere else,except for this one tiny place where they forget to mention that the earth is flat???

They did not mention it because it was common revealed knowledge at the time to an enlightened people who had revealed knowledge by a Creator who guided their destiny from the very beginning, even from the time of Abram. But rest assured that if the revealed knowledge had been that the earth was a flat round pancake shaped world, that they would not have used the Words, "Circle of the Earth" Meaning an Equatorial Circle and connotation of the idea of a SPHERE!

Yep, knew you would try this... again. You add in your personal.. or the personal thoughts of someone who has taught you, and then pretend that this is some kind of "verified fact". In reality, the straightforward explanation is really best.. just that the idea of the Earth being a sphere was pretty much beyond the thinking of the average, even most scholarly Jews and not really something terribly pertinent to the interaction of God and mankind, so not delved into in that much detail.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby crispybits on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:22 pm

Except for the small fact Viceroy, that the Hebrews had a word meaning flat circle (chuwg) and a word meaning sphere or ball (duwr). In Isaiah 40:22 the word used is the word for a flat circle. By contrast, (allegedly) the same author uses the word for sphere in Isaiah 22:18:

18 He will roll you up tightly like a ball and throw you into a large country. There you will die and there the chariots you were so proud of will become a disgrace to your master’s house.

If the authour had meant that the Earth was spherical or ball shaped, there is proof right there that he had the word to do so. He didn't. He specified a flat circle.

Calling ancient hebrew a "simple" language and implying it was without the conceptual word for a 3D sphere is stretching even your credibility. I'm starting to wonder if you've actually bothered to do any actual bible study at all?

Edit - actually "starting to wonder" might be an ever so slight exaggeration - I think it's been pretty obvious for some time now
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Frigidus on Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:50 pm

crispybits wrote:Except for the small fact Viceroy, that the Hebrews had a word meaning flat circle (chuwg) and a word meaning sphere or ball (duwr). In Isaiah 40:22 the word used is the word for a flat circle. By contrast, (allegedly) the same author uses the word for sphere in Isaiah 22:18:

18 He will roll you up tightly like a ball and throw you into a large country. There you will die and there the chariots you were so proud of will become a disgrace to your master’s house.

If the authour had meant that the Earth was spherical or ball shaped, there is proof right there that he had the word to do so. He didn't. He specified a flat circle.

Calling ancient hebrew a "simple" language and implying it was without the conceptual word for a 3D sphere is stretching even your credibility. I'm starting to wonder if you've actually bothered to do any actual bible study at all?

Edit - actually "starting to wonder" might be an ever so slight exaggeration - I think it's been pretty obvious for some time now


Don't worry, he has a feature length movie you can watch that will explain that one.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby tzor on Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:20 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:The principles of the word "Circle" discuss in this comment may be too simplistic for some adults to follow. If you have a small child in grade school it is recommended that the child read this comment along with you. Remember that if the child nods their head up and down, it means,"Yes!"

A Circle is not Flat sir.


:shock: You fail at so many things; why am I not surprised that you fail in geometry? A "circle" is by definition a two dimensional object.

A circle is a simple shape of Euclidean geometry that is the set of all points in a plane that are a given distance from a given point, the centre. The distance between any of the points and the centre is called the radius. It can also be defined as the locus of a point equidistant from a fixed point.


And a plane is, also by definition, flat.

Of course that doesn't prove that they believed in a "flat" earth; they believed in a slightly domed earth with the dry land at the center being, naturally, higher.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby jonesthecurl on Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:17 am

I think it's about time for Vice to stop talking about this and repeat his intial claims from the OP,like he always does.
Vice, would you like a list of things you've failed to address so far?
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Frigidus on Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:26 am

jonesthecurl wrote:I think it's about time for Vice to stop talking about this and repeat his intial claims from the OP,like he always does.
Vice, would you like a list of things you've failed to address so far?


To be fair, this is a stupid and irrelevant tangent.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby jonesthecurl on Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:49 am

Rilly?
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby crispybits on Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:48 am

jonesthecurl wrote:I think it's about time for Vice to stop talking about this and repeat his intial claims from the OP,like he always does.
Vice, would you like a list of things you've failed to address so far?


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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:28 am

crispybits wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:I think it's about time for Vice to stop talking about this and repeat his intial claims from the OP,like he always does.
Vice, would you like a list of things you've failed to address so far?


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He cannot, because the beliefs of young earthers require denying that anyone else has any true facts to back their ideas.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby mejihn7779 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:54 am

So what you're saying is "I'm not willing to do look at your side until you look at my side & completely dissect all the arguments. After you do that, I will probably not quite agree with some of what you said, so I won't be willing to take a look at your videos anyway."

Would you do this even if you do not agree with some of my refutings?

crispybits wrote:
mejihn7779 wrote:I find it interesting that none of the supporters of evolution were willing to watch any more than 10 minutes of the videos. That's like listening to a hypothesis and saying it's wrong or useless before giving the person a chance to explain. I dare any of the evolution supporters to watch both the videos & refute all his evidence. I BET YOU CAN'T!


I'll tell you what - you watch this and refute every argument the presenters make, and I'll go back and watch the rest of your video and refute all the other claims, not just the one I've already refuted...

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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby tzor on Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:06 am

I don't generally have the time to go through hour long videos that meander through the topic with no real meat to them.

I don't often care to respond to shotgun posts where someone tries to make two dozen points (and makes them all badly) in the hope that either one of them sticks or the opponent will tire out in refutation.

Finally, there are some people on the internet who will never, ever, realize that they are wrong. Everyone else realizes that they are wrong, and that is the important thing.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Viceroy63 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:52 am

The Jeff Dee and Russell Glasser show is about a couple of God hating atheist who have air time to express their opinions. That's neither science nor facts. It's simply what the majority of the people want to hear.

In a world turning away from God in the latter days, just as the bible had fore told it would thousands of years ago, everyone can be against God and everyone can and is wrong. Shows like theirs are the popular theme as is the fable of the theory of evolution. But the truth still remains whether the vast majority of the people believe it or not. The Holy Bible sure did nail this one right on the head!!!

3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
-2 Timothy 3:1-7

If Satan's plan is to destroy God's creation, then what better way than to get the creation to reject it's Creator?!

Satan must be laughing his ass off. Come the judgment, what will we do then? huh? I'd like to see if you scoff at God then with your silly TV show?

God will be just as God is just.

It is us who have the responsibility to look into a matter an search out the truth. It is our choice!
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby jonesthecurl on Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:03 am

...and we're back to the humble, meek, I am but a poor sinner position of "Ha ha I'm saved and you're not" again.
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
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Re: An Unproven Hypothesis, The Rise of Ignorance.

Postby Viceroy63 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:06 am

I'm not the one that's laughing at those "stupid" creationist and young earther's who see the evidence that the Dinosaurs may still be alive today in remote parts of the world, am I?
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