Unrated, Unranked, or No Points Games [REJECTED]

Suggestions that have not stood up to community review.

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Would you like to see an unranked option when creating games?

Yes
19
54%
No
11
31%
Dont care
5
14%
 
Total votes : 35

Re: POINTless Training games

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:48 pm

This has been suggested a million times and I used to vehemently disagree with it. However, for allowing teams to learn complex maps like Das Schloss, I am starting to see a good argument for this option.
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Re: POINTless Training games

Postby nicestash on Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:56 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:This has been suggested a million times and I used to vehemently disagree with it. However, for allowing teams to learn complex maps like Das Schloss, I am starting to see a good argument for this option.

I too am against normal pointless games, but in the interest of teaching people how to play, I see it as reasonable.
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Re: POINTless Training games

Postby greenoaks on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:53 pm

people coming out of the SoC will be better at maps than their score indicates, taking more points from me than they should.

All games count.
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Re: POINTless Training games

Postby nicestash on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:57 pm

greenoaks wrote:people coming out of the SoC will be better at maps than their score indicates, taking more points from me than they should.

All games count.

Not really... I may be mistaken, but aren't most/all of SoC games played against other SoC players? Because in that case, the average SoC player loses the same amount of points as they gain so for them it will be no different.
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Re: POINTless Training games

Postby jsnyder748 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:41 am

I would love to play pointless escalating games vs low rankers/people willing to learn. or pointless team games.

It takes time to teach team games, and the other players have to be fully immersed and willing to learn them. There is more pressure on new players who join to take it upon themselves to learn from people who already have gone through trial and error than there is for the teacher. I like teaching people who consistently take turns, listen and learn from what I tell them. BUT most people new to team games want to take it as casual as they would random flat rate games. these pointless games would serve a very good purpose to teach basics through trial and error. It is one thing to tell someone how to play through text but it is a whole other way to actually experience it yourself.
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Re: POINTless Training games

Postby greenoaks on Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:33 am

nicestash wrote:
greenoaks wrote:people coming out of the SoC will be better at maps than their score indicates, taking more points from me than they should.

All games count.

Not really... I may be mistaken, but aren't most/all of SoC games played against other SoC players? Because in that case, the average SoC player loses the same amount of points as they gain so for them it will be no different.

actually it will be different.

the concept of these point less games is to encourage higher ranks to play them. SoC members wont have won any points against those players but will have picked up a lot of skill. skill they will put to use against me. i don't have a problem with losing, it is losing to someone who's score is artificially lower than it should be causing me to lose many more points than i should that is the problem.
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Re: POINTless Training games

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:10 am

Never understood the reason for a pointless game.

You win some, you lose some. If you want to learn a new map, you can either play against others who have never played it (via invites) or you can learn faster by playing someone who knows the map. Either way, you may win some, you may lose some.

Agree with greenoaks as well. Why should someone who plays a lot of these games as a cook or private, get really good at a map, only to play for points and win a shit load.
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Re: POINTless Training games

Postby nicestash on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:55 am

koontz1973 wrote:Never understood the reason for a pointless game.

You win some, you lose some. If you want to learn a new map, you can either play against others who have never played it (via invites) or you can learn faster by playing someone who knows the map. Either way, you may win some, you may lose some.

Agree with greenoaks as well. Why should someone who plays a lot of these games as a cook or private, get really good at a map, only to play for points and win a shit load.


Koontz, I understand where you're coming from; I don't understand the necessity for pointless games either. I could care less about it, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of top players do care-whether or not they should. I also don't think you'll have to worry about people playing lots of games on a single map and getting super good, I don't think the academy allows that for the simple reason that they want to produce all around good players.

And greenoaks, with that type of logic, we shouldn't even train new guys. It'd be a lot better for my points if no one else had a clue what they were doing.
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Re: POINTless Training games

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:39 am

koontz1973 wrote:Never understood the reason for a pointless game.

You win some, you lose some. If you want to learn a new map, you can either play against others who have never played it (via invites) or you can learn faster by playing someone who knows the map. Either way, you may win some, you may lose some.

Agree with greenoaks as well. Why should someone who plays a lot of these games as a cook or private, get really good at a map, only to play for points and win a shit load.


90% of the players don't use PMs, wall posts, forums, etc. How are people who are trying to learn a map supposed to a) co-ordinate a team together and b) find another team that is specifically trying to learn the same map with the same amount of skill.

If I start a City Mogul game, I know I will be stomped on by people who are sitting around waiting for me to start that game. Likewise for Das Schloss, Stalingrad (which I can beat them at), various other maps.

I learned Stalingrad by playing it 1v1. City Mogul 1v1 is totally different than team City Mogul, so that option doesn't exist.
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Re: POINTless Training games

Postby Fazeem on Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:45 am

I swore I saw this idea in the rejected pile.
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Re: POINTless Training games

Postby greenoaks on Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:36 pm

Fazeem wrote:I swore I saw this idea in the rejected pile.

it has been rejected many times and will be again, as it should be.

come on mods, merge this.
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Re: POINTless Training games

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:21 pm

Free speed games was rejected many times. We have a new leadership, one that may be willing to take more chances.

This isn't about people not wanting to lose points. It's about games that have no incentive for ranchers to join. It's so people can learn in a non-threatening environment.

As an alternative, would you support a setting that doesn't allow players who have played more than x times into your game?
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Re: POINTless Training games

Postby nicestash on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:49 pm

These games are not supposed to be for normal players- only the Society of Cooks.

And so, no, I would be against that setting DoomYoshi
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Re: POINTless Training games

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:11 pm

nicestash wrote:These games are not supposed to be for normal players- only the Society of Cooks.

And so, no, I would be against that setting DoomYoshi


Anyone can join Society of Cooks, right?
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Re: POINTless Training games

Postby nicestash on Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:13 pm

Yes, but I don't think they start their own games.
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Re: POINTless Training games

Postby GoranZ on Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:37 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:This has been suggested a million times and I used to vehemently disagree with it. However, for allowing teams to learn complex maps like Das Schloss, I am starting to see a good argument for this option.

I found DS quite easy for learning, and win it from my first game... but I "wasted" some time looking at already finished games.

BTW Which Conqueror in human history knew everything about the opponent that he was about to face? Simple answer NONE. This is the reason why I will never support pointless games.
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Re: POINTless Training games

Postby chapcrap on Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:00 pm

greenoaks wrote:
Fazeem wrote:I swore I saw this idea in the rejected pile.

it has been rejected many times and will be again, as it should be.

come on mods, merge this.

I have been letting discussion go on this because it's a little bit different than what has been suggested before.

DoomYoshi wrote:Free speed games was rejected many times. We have a new leadership, one that may be willing to take more chances.

That's a completely different reason for rejection though. It's not really a fair comparison.

DoomYoshi wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:Never understood the reason for a pointless game.

You win some, you lose some. If you want to learn a new map, you can either play against others who have never played it (via invites) or you can learn faster by playing someone who knows the map. Either way, you may win some, you may lose some.

Agree with greenoaks as well. Why should someone who plays a lot of these games as a cook or private, get really good at a map, only to play for points and win a shit load.


90% of the players don't use PMs, wall posts, forums, etc. How are people who are trying to learn a map supposed to a) co-ordinate a team together and b) find another team that is specifically trying to learn the same map with the same amount of skill.

That's a made up stat. I'll accept the premise that probably a large majority of regular players do not interact on CC outside of games.

DoomYoshi wrote:I learned Stalingrad by playing it 1v1. City Mogul 1v1 is totally different than team City Mogul, so that option doesn't exist.

How do people learn to play City Moguls team games at all then? Someone learned somewhere and it wasn't from pointless training games.

nicestash wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:Never understood the reason for a pointless game.

You win some, you lose some. If you want to learn a new map, you can either play against others who have never played it (via invites) or you can learn faster by playing someone who knows the map. Either way, you may win some, you may lose some.

Agree with greenoaks as well. Why should someone who plays a lot of these games as a cook or private, get really good at a map, only to play for points and win a shit load.


Koontz, I understand where you're coming from; I don't understand the necessity for pointless games either. I could care less about it, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of top players do care-whether or not they should. I also don't think you'll have to worry about people playing lots of games on a single map and getting super good, I don't think the academy allows that for the simple reason that they want to produce all around good players.

I can tell you now, that things will not be implemented to get point hoarders to play a broader range of games. Personally, I am for rank segregation, but a large majority (including admin and owners) are not.

nicestash wrote:And greenoaks, with that type of logic, we shouldn't even train new guys. It'd be a lot better for my points if no one else had a clue what they were doing.

That's not really the logic being used. He's saying that if someone has a score of 850, but the ability of someone who is a major, then it's really not fair to the opponent. He's not supporting all players being crappy, he's saying that it's not fair to others' points to let training games exist without points being risked.



I don't see this happening because of the reasons that greenoaks stated. Not only that, not making it available to everyone doesn't seem fair either. SoC does not let everyone in. There aren't enough teachers for that. So, while someone might be a legitimate candidate for this (under the proposed system), they may not even be able to use this for a lengthy amount of time.

Honestly, if some kind of pointless games were ever implemented, I see the most viable options as either something that would just be an added game option for every game with no limit or something that would be available for everyone a certain number of times (1-3?) per map. This just doesn't have enough widespread good to overcome the previous rejections.

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Re: Unrated, Unranked, or No Points Games [REJECTED]

Postby spiesr on Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:50 pm

Last edited by spiesr on Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added another.
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Limited "points free" games per month

Postby betiko on Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:18 am

Yes I know, similar suggestions were made many times and always rejected. Please give a shot at this one given that we have a new management that might be opened to this idea; also the angle of approach of this idea is slightly different.

-Are you tired of having to restrain yourself from playing games that could cost you a lot of points but that could be really fun? (1v1 speed games vs anyone, 8 player assassin on small maps, terminator games without being noobed because of your rank, battle royales, 12 player freestyle ect ect..)

-Would you really like to test that new beta map, or that new setting without being farmed?

-Would you like to train a bit more on new maps/new settings before playing it competitively?

-Would you like to play your real life friend you've advised to join without suffering the consequences of playing him on simple settings? Or simply teach someone new tricks without losing tons of points?

All this could be achieved and make everyone happy adding a few conditions:
- every player would have a limited amount of points free games per month/ or a limited amout of active "free" points" games (TBD)
- Players who have disapeared from the scoreboard because of their inactiveness would not reapear by playing points free games.
- games would still affect your win rate (TBD)
- games would not count for medal hunting
- Tournaments, clan games, special event games will never be "points free" games

other conditions can be added!
Last edited by betiko on Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Limited "points free" games per month

Postby Armandolas on Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:35 am

If i disagreed about the whole idea, now with the added suggestion of a "month limit", i have to say i support this
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Re: Limited "points free" games per month

Postby cooldeals on Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:42 am

I like the idea.

An interesting idea to entertain along with these games is the possibility of no rules in these games since they have no points. Only saying this because I recently was talking to another mod about the possibility of unranked no rules games elsewhere.

Don't want to hijack your idea though. It's good as it is.
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Re: Limited "points free" games per month

Postby betiko on Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:26 pm

what do you mean with no rules cooldeals?
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Re: Limited "points free" games per month

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:35 pm

betiko wrote:what do you mean with no rules cooldeals?

Secret diplomacy is not only allowed but encouraged.
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Re: Limited "points free" games per month

Postby Swifte on Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:36 pm

I guess maybe this is just my way of viewing things, but points come and points go.. risk some points now to learn the map/settings, gain some points later... it's not the end of the world unless you're really one of the 5-10 people in the chase to be conqueror, why are your points so important? I get why people would choose to play with this, rather than risk points if they can avoid it, I guess I just don't see why people are so particular about possibly losing a few points while they're learning a new map/settings. It happens to us all equally, so what's the problem?
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Re: Limited "points free" games per month

Postby betiko on Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:47 pm

Swifte wrote:I guess maybe this is just my way of viewing things, but points come and points go.. risk some points now to learn the map/settings, gain some points later... it's not the end of the world unless you're really one of the 5-10 people in the chase to be conqueror, why are your points so important? I get why people would choose to play with this, rather than risk points if they can avoid it, I guess I just don't see why people are so particular about possibly losing a few points while they're learning a new map/settings. It happens to us all equally, so what's the problem?


I love playing silly luck based games just for fun, and when i'm into it I lose like 1000 points in a few days. Those points were really hard to get and I always have to restrain myself from joining any type of game. This is a gaming site, and I think it's too bad that we can't have the possibility of playing any settings; because some settings are real poisons. There was a whole discussion about this mode in the last CC update thread. Losing a few points on a new map isnot my concern. Playing all kind of speeders, playing real life friends is more my concern. And points aren't about being conqueror, at least no me personally but it's always nice to beat your high score and to be on your tops rather than being over a thousand points away from it because you enjoy CC joyrides.

And koontz; no, if that's what cooldeals meant I wouldn't agree. I'd like points free game to be within the rules.
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