CCup 4 format discussion (ver 5, p. 28)

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CCup 4 format discussion (ver 5, p. 28)

Postby Dako on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:55 am

Hello everyone!

I plan to host the next CCup this year and I would like you to suggest any improvements to the current format. I will post my own ideas a bit later so you don't get swayed by them.


Proposed CCup4 schedule

  • March 4th — discussions about format open
  • March 18th — discussions end, sign-ups open (subject to review)
  • April 8th — sign-ups close, final brackets posted (subject to review)
  • April 15th — first round starts (subject to review)

There is no schedule for every round as they are always inaccurate. However I will do my best to manage this cup and I will make sure all the games are created on time.

If you already know that your clan is interested in this event — please post here so I can compose a preliminary list of participant and see how many rounds we will need this year.



============



Draft of CCup4 rules, ver. 5


Following sections has been changed from version #4:
  • Seeding and brackets
  • Clan eligibility
  • Timing out a turn
  • Change of rules by mutual agreement
  • CCup host goes MIA



Seeding and brackets

CCup will be a single-elimination tournament with seeding based completely on F400 rankings. I will arrange with IcePack for F400 to be updated once the sign-ups close. New clans that has yet to be ranked on F400 will be placed at the bottom of the table in alphabetical order.

After that clan will be seeded according to that list and paired #1 vs #32, #2 vs #31 and so on. If we will have more than 32 clans some top clans will get a bye in the first round.


Clan Eligibility

To sign-up for CCup your clan must meet the following criteria:
  • Adhere to one competitive clan rule
  • Have at least 15 members
  • Have completed at least one war of 40+ games or participated in one of the leagues (either clan league or random league)

If your clan doesn't meet any or all of these points and you still want to enlist for CCup you should PM me with an explanation why you should be allowed in. After that your application will be reviewed.


Player Eligibility

If a player who have already participated in the current competition switches a clan in the middle of CCup that player can participate after he/she waits one full round of CCup.


Allowed Settings

  • Initial Troops - only Automatic
  • Play Order - only Sequential
  • Spoils - any
  • Reinforcements - any
  • Special Gameplay - any, but Trench Warfare games cannot take more than 20% of home games of each clan
  • Round Limit - only 30 Rounds
  • Round Length - only 24 Hours
Fog of war courtesy rule will be applied by default to all games.


Allowed maps

Any, excluding Beta maps


Clan wars

For all rounds:
- Each clan will pick the map and settings for exactly half of the games
- Each map can only be used twice per clan per clan war but can only be used once per game type (i.e. once for triples and once for quads)


Play-in round, Round of 32, Round of 16
- 41 total games
- 12 doubles, 14 triples, 14 quads with 41st game being Quads on World 2.1, sunny, chained, no spoils
- Each clan member can only participate in 12 games per clan war
- Each round will be played in two batches with exactly half of the games in each batch


Quarter-finals, semi-finals
- 61 total games
- 20 doubles, 20 triples, 20 quads with 61st game being Quads on World 2.1, sunny, chained, no spoils
- Each clan member can only participate in 16 games per clan war
- Each round will be played in three batches with exactly third of the games in each batch

Finals
- 81 total games
- 24 doubles, 28 triples, 28 quads with 81st game being Quads on World 2.1, sunny, chained, no spoils
- Each clan member can only participate in 22 games per clan war
- Finals will be played in four batches with exactly quarter of the games in each batch


Sending games

Detailed schedule will be posted before each round in advance.
Penalty for being late sending or joining games will be one home game forfeiture per day unless opposing clan will agree to play the game out.


Timing out a turn

Timing out turns to gain strategic advantage is forbidden. However there will be no penalties for timing out a turn from CCup standpoint. Clans can arrange timing-out rule between themselves as they wish so, read next section for details.


Change of rules by mutual agreement

Clans are not allowed to invent new rules. Clans can tweak some rules for their round upon mutual agreement and my own confirmation.

Clans can change:
  • Allowed settings — trench games limit can be changed
  • Allowed settings — round limit can be changed to other options
  • Fog of war courtesy can be dropped
  • Timing-out rule can be added
  • Tie-breaker format, such as map/settings and number of games it takes to break a tie
  • Games exchange date can be changed, but not for more than 1 week

Those cannot be changed:
  • Allowed maps
  • Allowed settings — initial troops, play order, spoils, reinforcements, round length
  • Number of games per round and their dubs/trips/quads proportion
  • Player limit for each round


Site bugs, player bans and other unpredictable circumstances

Any game that has been crippled by some outer intervention can be replayed only if both clans agree to replay the game.


CCup host goes MIA

If I, Dako, disappear, anybody who has decent understanding of clan world can pick up CCup and finish it instead of me. If there will be no volunteers unanimously approved by clan people CDs are free to finish the CCup with their own forces or appoint new CCup host as they see fit.


============


This is only a draft. Please discuss it.

Dako.



============


Rules of the previous cup

show: General Layout

show: Seedings

show: Eligibility

show: Clan Wars

show: Organization




PS — I will need a volunteer for graphics for this cup, if anyone is skilled with PhotoShop and is willing to help — please PM me and we will discuss the details.

Cheers,
Dako.
Last edited by Dako on Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:35 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby Bruceswar on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:03 am

Looks solid. I am sure graphics will not be an issue. A simple Challonge table will work.
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby benga on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:50 am

OSA will be in

maybe enforce 20 round limit?

most games are finished or at least decided by the end of round 20

with that limit trench would be also allowed
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby Qwert on Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:32 am

well i have few sugestions, but only will name it, then after i will explane

-Minimum clan players 14
-Game per round-first and second round 21(home 10 away 10-1 tiebreak)--third and fourth round 31(home 15 away 15-1 tiebreak)--final and for third place 61(home 30 away 30-1 tiebreak)
-Medal recipient -Winner- runer up-third place
---------------------------------------------------
Its time that CCCup get real value, so that medal are worth much more.
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby Bruceswar on Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:35 am

qwert wrote:well i have few sugestions, but only will name it, then after i will explane

-Minimum clan players 14
-Game per round-first and second round 21(home 10 away 10-1 tiebreak)--third and fourth round 31(home 15 away 15-1 tiebreak)--final and for third place 61(home 30 away 30-1 tiebreak)
-Medal recipient -Winner- runer up-third place
---------------------------------------------------
Its time that CCCup get real value, so that medal are worth much more.



Your game levels are not gonna work. 41 games needed to qualify for a war. That is what will be played.
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby Qwert on Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:41 am

Bruceswar wrote:
qwert wrote:well i have few sugestions, but only will name it, then after i will explane

-Minimum clan players 14
-Game per round-first and second round 21(home 10 away 10-1 tiebreak)--third and fourth round 31(home 15 away 15-1 tiebreak)--final and for third place 61(home 30 away 30-1 tiebreak)
-Medal recipient -Winner- runer up-third place
---------------------------------------------------
Its time that CCCup get real value, so that medal are worth much more.



Your game levels are not gonna work. 41 games needed to qualify for a war. That is what will be played.

qualify for war? I dont understand? Are these going to be another competition where each match will worth medal?
Why for change will not have real Cup competition where Winner ,Runer up and Third place get medals?
How much CC3 give medals-30-40 ? How much Winner of CC3 get medals ? 5-6 ?
I though that finaly will make some serious changes and give bigger value to Cup competition, but nothing gone to change?
Well i dont know why you even open any kind of discusion?
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby Dako on Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:46 am

Bruceswar wrote:
qwert wrote:well i have few sugestions, but only will name it, then after i will explane

-Minimum clan players 14
-Game per round-first and second round 21(home 10 away 10-1 tiebreak)--third and fourth round 31(home 15 away 15-1 tiebreak)--final and for third place 61(home 30 away 30-1 tiebreak)
-Medal recipient -Winner- runer up-third place
---------------------------------------------------
Its time that CCCup get real value, so that medal are worth much more.



Your game levels are not gonna work. 41 games needed to qualify for a war. That is what will be played.

Bruce please do not rush to conclusions. I will weight every suggestion in this thread when I will make a decision about next cup format.
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby jetsetwilly on Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:50 am

Good job Dako, we might want to set up an equivalent thread in cd & friends. We can vote on any divisive issues there.
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby Dako on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:02 am

jetsetwilly wrote:Good job Dako, we might want to set up an equivalent thread in cd & friends. We can vote on any divisive issues there.

I don't think we will need to vote on anything here. Discussion alone should indicate what people want and I will try to accommodate most of them where I can. However I will also reserve to make a final call on some issues because I have my own understanding of this event. I don't think anyone will mind that because all the amends that I have made to the third cup were greeted without objections.

There is little point in having the same thread in CD&F group because I would like all clan people to be able to reply and offer ideas. As I stated before I don't like that CD&F is limited to one person per clan as I believe clan scene is much more diverse and we should listen to a broader audience. And in the end we don't discuss something that all the clans will have to obey like sitting rules; it is a mere event in which clans can voluntarily participate. I also do not expect this discussions to be heated and full of flaming as we don't have offenders here so personal involvement will be minimal.

Of course if I feel that we have to vote on some issue that has arisen in this thread we will make a voting thread or PM or something else.

Cheers, Dako.
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby freakns on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:16 am

first of all, as i already suggested, lets go with slightly different format.

we are gonna start CC4 in about month and a half from now. by that time, its a big question whether or not CC3 finals will start. most likely those finals will just start. so you will not be prepared for another challenge(although, its most likely any top clan wouldnt have problems against lower seeded clan, its still mandatory number of games, and its surely not pleasant to be in two wars at once...)

so, lets give top 8 clans from CC 3 some breathing space, and leave them out for at least a round(those 8 would be KORT, TOFU, AFOS, AOC, PACK, Empire, TSM and OSA). and its not only for benefit of TOP clans, but also for benefit of bottom clans. i think its much more productive for them to lose against Mythology for example by 25-16 then to be annihilated by TOFU 35-6. i know most ppl would say it out loudly, but i have been part of clan world for more then 3 years now, i have played against bad, good and great clans, and yes, there is significant difference between great and good clans, let alone bad ones... and yes, i know everyone deserves a shot, but i do believe everyone would like to have some sort of challenge while playing(we just finished war against DBC, and props to those guys for trying but those games were simply boring, and i really dont want to be in challenge like that again, no matter if im fucking or im being fucked).

also, after we lost to TOFU, while expected, it was still disappointing, and i(and a lot of other ppl in my clan) needed some time to regroup... CL5 has started in right time for us, and we are just starting to fire our engines, getting competitive again... and now TOFU or KORT, AFOS or AOC will lose semis, and i think it would be good for them to cool of couple of months before start playing again.

anyhow, thats my first suggestion. second one would be for all female players between age od 18 and 40 to send me their nude pictures. female players Dako, female!!!! but lets see how clan world would react on first suggestion before we go with second...

EDIT: just like to add, Otpisani will surely be in, and if you need any help with organization, i can jump in. just dont ask me to draw anything, because outside of AutoCAD im complete n00b for graphic design programs :D
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby Dako on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:29 am

If finals will not start soon I will move first round a bit further or we will wait for top clans to regroup after third cup. Those dates are still in draft, nothing is set in stone yet. That was just to give you some thinking ground.

Thank you for the input freakns. I will send you some pictures later :).
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby IcePack on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:33 am

Fallen would be in.

Since your looking for discussion / weighing things, we like the current medal structure.
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12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby ahunda on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:46 am

Dako wrote:If finals will not start soon I will move first round a bit further or we will wait for top clans to regroup after third cup. Those dates are still in draft, nothing is set in stone yet. That was just to give you some thinking ground.

Yeah, that was my first & pretty much only reaction to this thread: Ugh ... so soon ?

We in IA have done some re-grouping ourselves, and when we were planning our activities for the near future (some weeks ago), we assumed, we still had months til the next Cup.

We didn´t even consider the idea, that Cup 4 could start, before Cup 3 is finished. And I honestly don´t see, why it should. It´s not like this must be an annual event.

Well, we can obviously not expect, that the schedule will be modeled according to our personal likings/needs.
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby grifftron on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:54 am

ahunda wrote:
Dako wrote:If finals will not start soon I will move first round a bit further or we will wait for top clans to regroup after third cup. Those dates are still in draft, nothing is set in stone yet. That was just to give you some thinking ground.

Yeah, that was my first & pretty much only reaction to this thread: Ugh ... so soon ?

We in IA have done some re-grouping ourselves, and when we were planning our activities for the near future (some weeks ago), we assumed, we still had months til the next Cup.

We didn´t even consider the idea, that Cup 4 could start, before Cup 3 is finished. And I honestly don´t see, why it should. It´s not like this must be an annual event.

Well, we can obviously not expect, that the schedule will be modeled according to our personal likings/needs.


+1

At least start it like a month or so after CC3 finishes.
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby Dako on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:59 am

ahunda wrote:Yeah, that was my first & pretty much only reaction to this thread: Ugh ... so soon ?

We in IA have done some re-grouping ourselves, and when we were planning our activities for the near future (some weeks ago), we assumed, we still had months til the next Cup.

We didn´t even consider the idea, that Cup 4 could start, before Cup 3 is finished. And I honestly don´t see, why it should. It´s not like this must be an annual event.

Well, we can obviously not expect, that the schedule will be modeled according to our personal likings/needs.

Ok, I might have rushed with those dates. Somehow I thought that previous cup started during finals but I was wrong, sorry.

I will go and edit the OP to indicate that this schedule is subject to review.
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby jetsetwilly on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:14 am

AOC's involvement will definitely be dependent on a good break between the semi finals and cc4. I don't think this needs to follow an annual cycle and the most important thing is to leave a decent sized gap. It's very hard for the clans in the final 4 to run other independent wars without a gap.

For me the main changes to discuss are around settings, nukes are in for the league and must surely be considered here too. Trench is not so divisive as it once was and we for one would be pro including it in the cup. Concerns about the length of games have been raised but recent analysis seemed to suggest that wasn't a major issue after all.
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby Leehar on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:18 am

Dako wrote:
ahunda wrote:Yeah, that was my first & pretty much only reaction to this thread: Ugh ... so soon ?

We in IA have done some re-grouping ourselves, and when we were planning our activities for the near future (some weeks ago), we assumed, we still had months til the next Cup.

We didn´t even consider the idea, that Cup 4 could start, before Cup 3 is finished. And I honestly don´t see, why it should. It´s not like this must be an annual event.

Well, we can obviously not expect, that the schedule will be modeled according to our personal likings/needs.

Ok, I might have rushed with those dates. Somehow I thought that previous cup started during finals but I was wrong, sorry.

I will go and edit the OP to indicate that this schedule is subject to review.

There was some overlap

Play-in Started 13 April - viewtopic.php?f=441&t=168470
Last Game in CC2 Finals ended 17 April (tho war was decided half-way through march?) viewtopic.php?f=442&t=160720

Kort only ended up playing their first round in June, so that was a decent gap?

A bye for the top 8 clans could possibly negate that need as well?
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby jetsetwilly on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:31 am

Leehar wrote:
Dako wrote:
ahunda wrote:Yeah, that was my first & pretty much only reaction to this thread: Ugh ... so soon ?

We in IA have done some re-grouping ourselves, and when we were planning our activities for the near future (some weeks ago), we assumed, we still had months til the next Cup.

We didn´t even consider the idea, that Cup 4 could start, before Cup 3 is finished. And I honestly don´t see, why it should. It´s not like this must be an annual event.

Well, we can obviously not expect, that the schedule will be modeled according to our personal likings/needs.

Ok, I might have rushed with those dates. Somehow I thought that previous cup started during finals but I was wrong, sorry.

I will go and edit the OP to indicate that this schedule is subject to review.

There was some overlap

Play-in Started 13 April - viewtopic.php?f=441&t=168470
Last Game in CC2 Finals ended 17 April (tho war was decided half-way through march?) viewtopic.php?f=442&t=160720

Kort only ended up playing their first round in June, so that was a decent gap?

A bye for the top 8 clans could possibly negate that need as well?


Better still the top 4 get a bye to the semi final ;)
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby Vid_FISO on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:48 am

Why go 1v32, 2v31 ..... ?

Free medals for the top clans and a waste of time for the weakest? Competition for those in the middle in the first round but at least half of the match ups are going to be effectively walk-overs?
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby jigger1986 on Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:12 am

I like the idea of giving the top clans (4,6 or 8) a buy into the second round.
I think nukes should be allowed, however Im still on the fence with trench.
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby benga on Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:38 am

Game 12172270

this is just small example why trench needs round limit
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby freakns on Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:21 pm

as i said for nukes in CL5, i dont usually play them, but im fine with it.

as for trench, im totally against it. first, i dont like the gameplay. second, and more important, good drop will give you a game. tactics cant beat good drop in trench
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby hyposquasher on Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:42 pm

freakns wrote:as for trench, im totally against it. first, i dont like the gameplay. second, and more important, good drop will give you a game. tactics cant beat good drop in trench


But this is the same with countless other maps and settings that are allowed. Look no further than a lucky/unlucky set of nuclear spoils. And second, your statement will only apply to trench with some maps. Most maps will still depend largely on the decisions that the players make. I think trench should be allowed.
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby IcePack on Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:47 pm

Nukes have been around long enough and won't be used much, let it in no limit. (it'll be limited in use anyway)

Trench is newer, limit it (10%?) and require 30 round limit on these games.Perhaps require they all get placed in first round as well to eleviate length concerns.
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Re: CCup 4 format discussion

Postby The Voice on Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:09 pm

Vid_FISO wrote:Why go 1v32, 2v31 ..... ?

Free medals for the top clans and a waste of time for the weakest? Competition for those in the middle in the first round but at least half of the match ups are going to be effectively walk-overs?


I don't believe anyone's going to address this point unless you propose a suggestion. Also, you're assuming the lower-ranked clan will lose every time in round 1. The underdog stands to move up in the rankings should they win (and three underdogs won in the first round of CC3).
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