[Vacation - Valid till May 2014] The Great War

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Re: The Great War- TOTALY NEW, Feb 05, page 6

Postby Oneyed on Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:00 pm

Seamus76 wrote:I like the new graphics a lot, nice work.


thank you :)
Seamus76 wrote:I still can't read the text very well though.


better?
Click image to enlarge.
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Re: The Great War- TOTALY NEW, Feb 05, page 7

Postby sannemanrobinson on Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:11 am

What do you mean with Attacks with conditional borders? If AEF only functions to fort between London and Bordeaux there is not much use in it.
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Re: The Great War- TOTALY NEW, Feb 05, page 7

Postby Oneyed on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:20 am

sannemanrobinson wrote:What do you mean with Attacks with conditional borders? If AEF only functions to fort between London and Bordeaux there is not much use in it.


I mean that you can attack AEF from London only if you hold respective conditional border and when you can attack AEF from Bordeaux you also need to hold respective conditional border.
from AEF to London or to Bordeaux is possible normal attack.

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Re: The Great War- TOTALY NEW, Feb 05, page 7

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:08 am

The upper left legend misspells 'capital' next to the auto-deploy.


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Re: The Great War- TOTALY NEW, Feb 05, page 7

Postby Dukasaur on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:18 pm

I'm trying to figure out the bonus structure.

Does "bonus valid once" mean that you cannot have more than one bonus?

If I hold Italy and Ottoman, what do I get?
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Re: The Great War- TOTALY NEW, Feb 05, page 7

Postby Oneyed on Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:50 am

AndyDufresne wrote:The upper left legend misspells 'capital' next to the auto-deploy.


I see now. thanks. will be corrected.

Dukasaur wrote:I'm trying to figure out the bonus structure.

Does "bonus valid once" mean that you cannot have more than one bonus?

If I hold Italy and Ottoman, what do I get?


there are not written bonuses for states. my bad...
"bonus valid once" is for occupied regions, not for state bonuses. and it is valid for the states of the same power only.

so if you hold German Empire and A, B, C, D non CP regions you get +2 for occupied regions. when you also hold Ottoman Empire you do not get next +2 for A, B, C, D non CP regions.

could you help me witht text here to write this correctly but short?

thanks guys for advices :) .

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Re: The Great War- TOTALY NEW, Feb 05, page 7

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:20 am

Oneyed wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:I'm trying to figure out the bonus structure.

Does "bonus valid once" mean that you cannot have more than one bonus?

If I hold Italy and Ottoman, what do I get?


there are not written bonuses for states. my bad...
"bonus valid once" is for occupied regions, not for state bonuses. and it is valid for the states of the same power only.

so if you hold German Empire and A, B, C, D non CP regions you get +2 for occupied regions. when you also hold Ottoman Empire you do not get next +2 for A, B, C, D non CP regions.

could you help me witht text here to write this correctly but short?


I'm thinking something like:
Override bonus:
Hold one complete Major Power in either alliance (Central Powers or Entente) and get a bonus army for every two territories occupied inside an enemy power. You can collect only one override bonus.
then the list:
Entente:
    UK
    France
    Russia
    Italy
Central Powers:
    Germany
    Austria-Hungary
    Ottoman
    Bulgaria


On a related note, I think Bulgaria may be too easy to hold. Might want to sacrifice historical accuracy for the sake of playability there and leave Bulgaria as a minor power only.

Then again Italy doesn't really belong with the Entente, either. It was original signatory to Central Powers pact. But all this can be discussed later.

Now, the above is okay if you can only hold one side or the other. But if it is possible to hold an override bonus on both sides, then we have to go something like this:
Override bonus:
Hold one complete Central Power and get a bonus army for every two territories occupied inside an Entente power.

Override bonus:
Hold one complete Entente nation and get a bonus army for every two territories occupied inside a Central power.

Entente:
    UK
    France
    Russia
    Italy
Central Powers:
    Germany
    Austria-Hungary
    Ottoman
    Bulgaria


You can only hold one override bonus on each side.
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Re: The Great War- TOTALY NEW, Feb 05, page 7

Postby Oneyed on Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:47 pm

Dukasaur wrote:I'm thinking something like:Override bonus:
Hold one complete Major Power in either alliance (Central Powers or Entente) and get a bonus army for every two territories occupied inside an enemy power. You can collect only one override bonus.


I spoke about overrides with thenobodies. what do you mean with "collect only one override bonus"? it is not possible to code what I have: either you have 2 States of the same Power you get bonus for occupied regions only once?
Dukasaur wrote:On a related note, I think Bulgaria may be too easy to hold. Might want to sacrifice historical accuracy for the sake of playability there and leave Bulgaria as a minor power only.


wait, Bulgaria itself does not have bonus. only with Balkan States. and also bonus for occupied regions could be set up so: Bulgaria WITH Balkan States.
Dukasaur wrote:Then again Italy doesn't really belong with the Entente, either. It was original signatory to Central Powers pact. But all this can be discussed later.


the map is not from 1914. as you can see the positions are from about 1915 when Italy was in war on Entete powers side.
Dukasaur wrote:Now, the above is okay if you can only hold one side or the other. But if it is possible to hold an override bonus on both sides, then we have to go something like this:
Override bonus:
Hold one complete Central Power and get a bonus army for every two territories occupied inside an Entente power.

Override bonus:
Hold one complete Entente nation and get a bonus army for every two territories occupied inside a Central power.


you mean that I can write to legend "Overrides"? do people (players) know what means Override?
Dukasaur wrote:You can only hold one override bonus on each side.


wait, what I understan from thenobodies it is possible to do this:
bonus for occupied regions (on the same side) valid once.
and this is only what I want. I think... 8-[

I am realy confused with all these oerrides and so on. thank you for help and comments. I will work on update version, but I have broken leg and I also work on another maps. :)

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Re: The Great War- TOTALY NEW, Feb 05, page 7

Postby Dukasaur on Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:53 pm

That's okay, I have a Dispatch deadline this week and 21 active tournaments, plus of course the never-ending annoyance known as R/L.

Foundry I barely notice in between my other duties, so the longer the delay the better..:)
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Re: The Great War- TOTALY NEW, Feb 05, page 7

Postby iancanton on Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:23 pm

despite the subject being familiar from europe 1914, i very much like the concept here of invasion routes thru the trenches only via the battlefields. the artwork is crisp and clear. unfortunately, the explanation of the conditional borders is not clear at all and u will need a different wording.

the map tries to cover too much territory, with the result that western and central europe, where the war was largely won and lost, looks tiny, while the ottoman empire has too many regions shown compared with its role in the war. u're attempting to show the russian revolution too, which adds unnecessary complexity to the bonuses: the russian empire by itself is enough, while moscow, samara, the railway and the don cossacks participated in the russian revolution rather than the great war.

i recommend that u draw a line roughly from petrograd to alexandria and delete all regions that are east of this line. after u do this, try rotating the playable area clockwise by 30 degrees and zoom in slightly with the playable area centred on vienna or munich, while using the space east of the petrograd-alexandria line for a unified legend.

the british empire and italy colours are too similar to each other, so it's unclear that malta is needed for the british bonus. perhaps use pink for the british empire, since pink was traditionally used by british cartographers?

why is corsica shown as independent? it was, and is, french! maybe it's best not to name corsica, but simply have it as an unplayable region in the french colour; delete the sea route from marseille, so that france can attack italy only thru lombardy, which keeps more of the play in the middle of europe.

ian. :)
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Re: The Great War- TOTALY NEW, Feb 05, page 7

Postby Oneyed on Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:56 am

iancanton wrote:i very much like the concept here of invasion routes thru the trenches only via the battlefields.


wait. with battlefield you mean current version with "only" opposite armies (without battlefields as regions) or this* old version with battlefields as regions?
*
Click image to enlarge.
image

iancanton wrote:the artwork is crisp and clear. unfortunately, the explanation of the conditional borders is not clear at all and u will need a different wording.


thanks. yes the legend and wording is allways nightmare for me :)
iancanton wrote:the map tries to cover too much territory, with the result that western and central europe, where the war was largely won and lost, looks tiny, while the ottoman empire has too many regions shown compared with its role in the war.


I know problem about Ottoman Empire. becasue the Ottoman Empire is easy to secure I add there more regions to gain this bonus harder. also this side of map is a little "closed" with a little maneuver possibilities. this needs to be solved...
iancanton wrote:u're attempting to show the russian revolution too, which adds unnecessary complexity to the bonuses: the russian empire by itself is enough, while moscow, samara, the railway and the don cossacks participated in the russian revolution rather than the great war.


yes on one side you are right, but on the another side the revolution was part of these times and it adds realistic feature. maybe if we try more simple way how to add revolution there?
iancanton wrote:i recommend that u draw a line roughly from petrograd to alexandria and delete all regions that are east of this line.


but we "need" Caucasus because the connection between Russian Empire and Ottoman Empire here is the bigest problem...
I have approval for supersize (I am not big fan of supersized maps, but maybe so complex map as this could be supersized), so what do you think - make this map as supersized?
iancanton wrote:after u do this, try rotating the playable area clockwise by 30 degrees and zoom in slightly with the playable area centred on vienna or munich, while using the space east of the petrograd-alexandria line for a unified legend.


to be honest I rotate map to the left becasue it gived me more space :) .
iancanton wrote:the british empire and italy colours are too similar to each other, so it's unclear that malta is needed for the british bonus. perhaps use pink for the british empire, since pink was traditionally used by british cartographers?


ok.
iancanton wrote:why is corsica shown as independent? it was, and is, french! maybe it's best not to name corsica, but simply have it as an unplayable region in the french colour;


to be honest I do not kow why I made Corsica independent :lol: . I like idea to kick off it as playable region.
iancanton wrote:delete the sea route from marseille, so that france can attack italy only thru lombardy, which keeps more of the play in the middle of europe.


will be not Italy too closed? only Lombardy and Cyrenaica must be secured to hold Kingdom of Italy.

I am glad for your advices and thank you ian :)

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Re: The Great War- TOTALY NEW, Feb 05, page 7

Postby iancanton on Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:06 pm

Oneyed wrote:
iancanton wrote:i very much like the concept here of invasion routes thru the trenches only via the battlefields.

wait. with battlefield you mean current version with "only" opposite armies (without battlefields as regions) or this* old version with battlefields as regions?

i mean the new version. instead of the two opposing armies, it's possible to have only a single battlefield region with killer neutral, as u did before, but u chose to keep the opposing armies, which is fine. do u receive a +1 bonus for holding f2 and g3, but -2 if u have neither burgundy nor bavaria, making a total of -1?

iancanton wrote:the explanation of the conditional borders is not clear at all and u will need a different wording.

Oneyed wrote:thanks. yes the legend and wording is allways nightmare for me :)

can u give an example of how u want it to work?

Oneyed wrote:
iancanton wrote:the map tries to cover too much territory, with the result that western and central europe, where the war was largely won and lost, looks tiny, while the ottoman empire has too many regions shown compared with its role in the war.

I know problem about Ottoman Empire. becasue the Ottoman Empire is easy to secure I add there more regions to gain this bonus harder. also this side of map is a little "closed" with a little maneuver possibilities. this needs to be solved...

Oneyed wrote:
iancanton wrote:i recommend that u draw a line roughly from petrograd to alexandria and delete all regions that are east of this line.

but we "need" Caucasus because the connection between Russian Empire and Ottoman Empire here is the bigest problem...

we can solve the above situations by adding the russian black sea fleet and letting it one-way bombard constantinople.

Oneyed wrote:
iancanton wrote:u're attempting to show the russian revolution too, which adds unnecessary complexity to the bonuses: the russian empire by itself is enough, while moscow, samara, the railway and the don cossacks participated in the russian revolution rather than the great war.

yes on one side you are right, but on the another side the revolution was part of these times and it adds realistic feature. maybe if we try more simple way how to add revolution there?

the trouble is that the russian revolution removed russia from the war, so the two conflicts were only weakly linked. there are inconsistencies caused by showing a railway only in russia but nowhere else and creating a russian empire bonus that is pointless because it can never be held except by holding the soviet bonus.

ian. :)
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Re: The Great War- TOTALY NEW, Feb 05, page 7

Postby Oneyed on Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:51 am

iancanton wrote:do u receive a +1 bonus for holding f2 and g3, but -2 if u have neither burgundy nor bavaria, making a total of -1?


yes. my idea was that when you lost region in which is army located you can not supply army. but after your notice I see that this can not works this way...
so +2 for both opposite armies would be better?
iancanton wrote:can u give an example of how u want it to work?


the conditional borders for one way moving troops from capital to town with the same flag is only as reinforce, not for attacks. therefore you must hold both (capital and town and also entire capitals state).
example: you hold Ottoman Empire (with Constantinople ofcourse) but you can not attack Alexandria from Constantinople. but when you take Alexandria from Egypt (and you still hold Ottoman Empire) you can reinforce troops from Constantinople to Alexandria.

the conditional borders for one way moving troops from AEF to F2 is the similar case. you can not attack F2 from AEF (because conditional border tells that for moving troops you need hold both AEF and F2 and also Bordeaux), but when you take F2 from Burgundy and you hold also Bordeaux and AEF you can reinforce troops from AEF to F2.

maybe it looks confusing but I spoke with thenobodies about this and it is simple when I understand how game works:
1, check decay, bonuses, killer neutrals...
2, check assaults
3, check reinforce (so when you take F2 during step 2 you can reinforce from AEF to F2 - ofcourse if you hold entire conditional border)
iancanton wrote:we can solve the above situations by adding the russian black sea fleet and letting it one-way bombard constantinople.


but there will not be the way from Ottoman Empitre to Russia. and (mainly to the 1916) was also Ottomans active here - their ships from Germany bombard Russian towns and attack Russian ships.
what about add to Black sea Russian ship which could bombards Angora, Constantinople and Ottoman ship. and add there also Ottoman ship which could bombard Ukraine, Russia and Russian ship.
to show later Ottoman weakness their ship could:
- lose any armies each round?
- or revets to neutral?
- or maybe can not bombard Russian ship?
iancanton wrote:the trouble is that the russian revolution removed russia from the war, so the two conflicts were only weakly linked.


I can not agreed totaly here. the revolution was important event:
- Central powers moved all troops to western front
- Central powers gained all Ukraine, Batlic States, Belorusia
- Entete powers had new problem with support White Russians

so we could anyway shows revolution here.
iancanton wrote:there are inconsistencies caused by showing a railway only in russia but nowhere else and creating a russian empire bonus that is pointless because it can never be held except by holding the soviet bonus.


to hold Russian Empire you do not need Samara and Moscow, so you can hold Russian Empire without Soviet Union.

I strongly thought about more railways (Berlin-Wilhemshaven-Munich-Vienna-Budapest-Belgrade-Sofia). we could add any railways when central europe will be larger, I think.

thanks ian.

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Re: The Great War- TOTALY NEW, Feb 05, page 7

Postby tkr4lf on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:07 am

I don't really have any useful comments here, just wanted to drop in and say that the current version of the map looks amazing. Very nice artwork, Oneyed.
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Re: The Great War- TOTALY NEW, Feb 05, page 7

Postby Oneyed on Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:04 pm

tkr4lf wrote:I don't really have any useful comments here, just wanted to drop in and say that the current version of the map looks amazing. Very nice artwork, Oneyed.


thank you. I am glad that you like it. hope the next version will be a little better ;)

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