THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

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THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby jetsetwilly on Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:04 am

Please refer to this thread for discussion on the recent officiation of the CC4. Thank you, --rds

Welcome to the Fourth Annual OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP!!

Rewards

The Conquerors Cup is now an Official CC Clan Event and as such the CD's have been able to secure premium prizes to award to the winning clan, \:D/ 1 month per eligible clan member and we will also be awarding overall Medals to 1st, 2nd and 3rd place Clans.

Brackets TBD


Clan wars threads



Sign up date TBA


show: General Layout



show: Seedings

show: Eligibility

show: Clan Wars


show: Miscellaneous


show: Organization

PLEASE NOTE THIS IS STILL A HOLDING POST AND WE WILL UPDATE THE FINAL FORMAT AS IT IS DECIDED

All Agenda's can be conveyed to your respective Clan Representative as a feasible topic for voting in CDF!
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby chapcrap on Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:38 am

jetsetwilly wrote:The Conquerors Cup is now an Official CC Clan Event and as such the CD's have been able to secure premium prizes to award to the winning clan, \:D/ 1 month per eligible clan member and we will also be awarding overall Medals to 1st, 2nd and 3rd place Clans.

Is this in addition to the medals already given for winning the wars? Like a super special medal?

jetsetwilly wrote:Games should be sent 10 at a time from each clan (20 games total) for each round and sent by the date specified on the schedule.

Can this be negotiated by clans to do more games earlier? Usually in a 41 game war we would do 11 and 9, that's why I ask.

jetsetwilly wrote:In each clan challenge thread. A list of players participating for each clan should be kept up along with a running tally of how many games each player has played in.

This isn't something that I have done in past wars. Should we do this for ALL wars or is this just a CC4 thing?

Thanks.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:47 am

chapcrap wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:The Conquerors Cup is now an Official CC Clan Event and as such the CD's have been able to secure premium prizes to award to the winning clan, \:D/ 1 month per eligible clan member and we will also be awarding overall Medals to 1st, 2nd and 3rd place Clans.

Is this in addition to the medals already given for winning the wars? Like a super special medal?

jetsetwilly wrote:Games should be sent 10 at a time from each clan (20 games total) for each round and sent by the date specified on the schedule.

Can this be negotiated by clans to do more games earlier? Usually in a 41 game war we would do 11 and 9, that's why I ask.

jetsetwilly wrote:In each clan challenge thread. A list of players participating for each clan should be kept up along with a running tally of how many games each player has played in.

This isn't something that I have done in past wars. Should we do this for ALL wars or is this just a CC4 thing?

Thanks.




1. Medals will be the same as before right but 2nd and 3rd now will get medals. We hope to use super medals at a later date like the site wide cup uses.

2. You can send more than 10 in the first batch if both clans agree. At least 10 must be sent.

3. It would be nice to have it done in each thread, but for now doing this in CC4 for now.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby IcePack on Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:27 am

So under CD, who is the primary contact for CCup?

I had already discussed and made arrangements thru Dako, and now I'll have to do the same with...? Jet?
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:29 am

You can talk with any CD. We are all open to contact.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby niMic on Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:35 pm

I always wondered. Is this the cup of the conqueror or the cup of the conquerors?
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby Foxglove on Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:19 pm

jetsetwilly wrote:Seedings
After sign-ups conclude, seedings will be given out. The seedings will be determined by the latest F400 Rankings found here viewtopic.php?f=438&t=159580. I will ask the person running those to edit them right before we start.

Or (if any desire for a vote, since Power Rankings were often used previously)

BG's Coaches Poll


An opinion poll? The only reason the Power Rankings were used originally is because we didn't have a numerical results-based system that anyone could agree on. If you go with BG's Coaches poll, how will you seed all of the clans that don't make his list? Randomly? Or are you trying to make a point of listing options that can be voted on, no matter how ridiculous?

Option 1: Multi-year numerical results-based system accepted by all clans
Option 2: Opinion poll that ranks half of the existing clans
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby Leehar on Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:58 pm

Foxglove wrote:
jetsetwilly wrote:Seedings
After sign-ups conclude, seedings will be given out. The seedings will be determined by the latest F400 Rankings found here viewtopic.php?f=438&t=159580. I will ask the person running those to edit them right before we start.

Or (if any desire for a vote, since Power Rankings were often used previously)

BG's Coaches Poll


An opinion poll? The only reason the Power Rankings were used originally is because we didn't have a numerical results-based system that anyone could agree on. If you go with BG's Coaches poll, how will you seed all of the clans that don't make his list? Randomly? Or are you trying to make a point of listing options that can be voted on, no matter how ridiculous?

Option 1: Multi-year numerical results-based system accepted by all clans
Option 2: Opinion poll that ranks half of the existing clans


Sorry, I didn't imagine there would be much desire for it, but thought I would put it out there in case it did perk anyone's interest as a viable alternative.

But thanks for shutting me down so nicely :P

I also thought it could be interesting in the case of say Atlantis. They have pretty much taken off all that was BoFM, who had well-established themselves as a Top 20 clan, but the F400 will essentially be putting them nearer the bottom which could perhaps not be the most enviable of solutions?
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby IcePack on Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:38 pm

Speaking of, it says clan must be eligible or CDF.
What exactly are those requirements to enter CDF? That really tells us nothing...does a clan merely need to exist w 10 members to enter CDF? What are the requirements?
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby Nicky15 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:44 pm

IcePack wrote:Speaking of, it says clan must be eligible or CDF.
What exactly are those requirements to enter CDF? That really tells us nothing...does a clan merely need to exist w 10 members to enter CDF? What are the requirements?


does it :?

Apologies that was old wording. Fixed now.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby Vid_FISO on Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:46 pm

Nicky15 wrote:
IcePack wrote:Speaking of, it says clan must be eligible or CDF.
What exactly are those requirements to enter CDF? That really tells us nothing...does a clan merely need to exist w 10 members to enter CDF? What are the requirements?


does it :?

Apologies that was old wording. Fixed now.


A bit more copy and paste gone wrong (in organization)

For each clan war, the higher ranked clan will setup a thread to run that particular match. PLEASE PUT "[CC4]" (STANDS FOR CONQUEROR'S CUP 3) AT THE BEGINNING OF THE TITLE FOR EACH CLAN WAR.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby Nicky15 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:48 pm

Vid_FISO wrote:
Nicky15 wrote:
IcePack wrote:Speaking of, it says clan must be eligible or CDF.
What exactly are those requirements to enter CDF? That really tells us nothing...does a clan merely need to exist w 10 members to enter CDF? What are the requirements?


does it :?

Apologies that was old wording. Fixed now.


A bit more copy and paste gone wrong (in organization)

For each clan war, the higher ranked clan will setup a thread to run that particular match. PLEASE PUT "[CC4]" (STANDS FOR CONQUEROR'S CUP 3) AT THE BEGINNING OF THE TITLE FOR EACH CLAN WAR.


Thank you :D i will fix that now

This is just a holding post. We will start a new thread when everything has been finalized, with One CD as the primary contact
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby eddie2 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:47 am

did you hold a vote in cdf asking if all clans were ok with you dictating that clans who did not want in cdf must join to take part in these clan events now. me personally i dont see why they should have to if they read the sign up thread and are happy to take part then that should be enough. they should not be forced to join a group they do not want to and get involved in convos they do not want to just to make the figures of the group look good.
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Draw and Seeding system

Postby jetsetwilly on Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:32 pm

There has been much discussion about the format CC4 should take. Lots of people subscribe to the it's always worked well, so why change it approach but others have been equally vocal about their preference for using an alternative system.

There is no right or wrong answer, it's down to you all to decide what you want.

We have attempted to put together a simple list of the options that have come up along the way. There are probably many variations on some of these but if we are to take this to a vote then we need a reasonably short list. A huge list of options might require various elimination votes which is a little onerous on everyone so we hope we can come up with a list here that has a flavour of everything to allow us to take it to a vote.

There is no strong preference from the CD's as a group here. We are fairly certain that amongst our own clans we will be voting for different options.

Let's use this thread just to make sure the options are clear for everyone and the individual clans can discuss their preferred options ahead of the formal vote.



In all cases we are assuming a play in round to get us down to 32 clans. All seeding will be taken from the F400 at the agreed start point.

If more than 32 clans do enter, then we can review the chosen option to see if a play in round was the most appropriate or if the system can be modified to cope with a different number.


1.Seeded bracket system


There are two similar options within option 1 but for the purposes of the initial discussion we propose to keep them as a single option. If this option proves to be the winner then we could determine which of the 2 to go for.

Option 1a uses a strict seeding method for the entire bracket to pair the clans.
Option 1b uses seeding for the top half of the bracket to pair the clans with a randomly drawn opponent.



show: Option 1a - Seed the entire bracket



show: Option 1b - Seed the top 16 to play random opponents in round 1



2. An entirely random draw for every round.

For round 1 the 32 teams are pulled from a hat at random
For round 2 the 16 remaining teams are pulled from a hat at random.
etc.

top clans could meet each other in an early round and we might see some big name casualties.

show: Option 2



3. Alternative system

Clans 1-8 get a bye in Rounds 1 and 2 and join from Round 3
Clans 9-16 get a bye in Round 2 and join in Round 2

There are 2 similar alternatives within option 3 but for the purposes of the initial discussion we propose to keep them as a single option. If this option proves to be the winner then we could determine which of the 2 to go for.

Option 3a uses a random method of pairing the clans. 3b uses a bracket system.

3a:

R1: Clans ranked 17-24 are randomly paired with the clans ranked 25-32
R2: Clans ranked 9-16 are randomly paired with the winners from R1
R3 Clans ranked 1-8 clans are randomly paired with the winers from R2
QF: Remainng clans ranked 1-4 are randomly paired with those ranked 4-8
SF: Remaining clans ranked 1-2 are randomly paried with those ranked 3-4

3b:

R1: Clans ranked 17-24 are paired with the clans ranked 25-32 using the system 17v32; 18v31 ... 24v25
R2: Clans ranked 9-16 are paired with the 8 winners from R1. 9v(24v25); 10v(23v26) ... 16v(17v32)
R3 Clans ranked 1-8 clans are paired with the winners from R2. 1-8. 1v[16v(17v32)]; 2v[15v(18v31)] ... 8v[9v(24v25)]
QF: Remaining 8 clans - 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5 (or winners of their previous matches)
SF: Remaining 4 clans - 1v4, 2v3 (or winners of their previous matches)



show: Option 3a
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby IcePack on Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:40 pm

This makes the vote more complicated, but if possible I would favor a vote where you dont just pick one option, but prioritize all of them.
Such as:
1st Pick = 4 Pts
2nd Pick = 3 pts
3rd pick = 2 pts
4th pick = 1 pt

This way, you can total all clans 4 picks prioritization. That way I can say "i pick option 1, but if i had to choose something else it would be Y, and then X, and then Z."

It would really show the preferances of the clans, instead of limiting to your top option.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby Keefie on Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:10 pm

I think that's a great idea from Icepack =D> It will force all clans to actually read and digest the options before casting their votes.

Important Request

So that the questions are as impartial as possible can we please change the wording for option 1. I think it's very important to avoid terms like: as per usual / as used in past Cups / existing format etc etc. Each option should be presented on it's own merits without anything that could influence the voter.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby Crazyirishman on Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:20 pm

From the systems that jetsetwilly posted, I personally like the 3rd on 4th options the best.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby IcePack on Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:37 pm

How about 3.1:
Random draw round 1, regular bracket onward (not every round).
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby Nicky15 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:39 pm

eddie2 wrote:did you hold a vote in cdf asking if all clans were ok with you dictating that clans who did not want in cdf must join to take part in these clan events now. me personally i dont see why they should have to if they read the sign up thread and are happy to take part then that should be enough. they should not be forced to join a group they do not want to and get involved in convos they do not want to just to make the figures of the group look good.


No. Our aim is to try and create a clan world where all clans get a say, and the CDs are not charged with making all the decisions. As much as possible we want clans to be able to decide, and they can't if they are not represented in the CDF. No one is forced to get involved in discussions, and if a clan does not have an opinion on a topic they can abstain their vote. While some may not have an opinion on the way CC4 is organised there may well be an issue that arises mid cup that they will want a say in. Also being a member of CDF means they are a clan with standing enough to make them less likely to pull out mid comp and disrupt the competition. This may well be an non issue as no one apart from yourself has refused to be a member of CDF. AKAs rep is doing his part in the votes we have.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby Doc_Brown on Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:02 pm

Now that this is an official Conquer Club event, and given that it was yanked out of Dako's hands with nary a personal message to him of either explanation or thanks for past efforts, I propose that this event be renamed. There is already an official Conquer Cup, and it's just going to be confusing to have the Conquer Cup and the Conqueror's Cup. I suggest this be renamed as the 1st Conquer Club Clan Cup.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby Keefie on Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:05 pm

Doc_Brown wrote:Now that this is an official Conquer Club event, and given that it was yanked out of Dako's hands with nary a personal message to him of either explanation or thanks for past efforts, I propose that this event be renamed. There is already an official Conquer Cup, and it's just going to be confusing to have the Conquer Cup and the Conqueror's Cup. I suggest this be renamed as the 1st Conquer Club Clan Cup.


I'll second that proposal.
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Re: Conqueror's Cup 4

Postby Nicky15 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:09 pm

Doc_Brown wrote:Now that this is an official Conquer Club event, and given that it was yanked out of Dako's hands with nary a personal message to him of either explanation or thanks for past efforts, I propose that this event be renamed. There is already an official Conquer Cup, and it's just going to be confusing to have the Conquer Cup and the Conqueror's Cup. I suggest this be renamed as the 1st Conquer Club Clan Cup.


That was always the plan for the final thread, but the name will remain, it is the 4th edition of the Conqueror's Cup, but there is no reason why we can't put the official bit in now.
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby IcePack on Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:10 pm

1CCCC is just annoying lol
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby BGtheBrain on Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:10 pm

The Lackattack Cup
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Re: THE OFFICIAL CC CONQUEROR’S CUP 4

Postby Doc_Brown on Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:34 pm

IcePack wrote:1CCCC is just annoying lol


No need to call it CCCC. It's the 1st annual Clan Cup.
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