[GP/UI]Automatically Award Spoils Even if a Player Times Out

This forum is a storehouse for all Finalized Suggestions to be periodically reviewed during Feature Updates.

Moderators: Suggestions Team, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Automatically award a spoil to a player that takes a territory:

Never. Timing out to avoid getting a spoil is a valid strategy.
18
22%
Always. Any player that takes a territory in any game type should be awarded a spoil, even if he doesn't click "End Turn."
44
54%
For all games except speed and/or freestyle. It's a key part of the timing in those games and should be preserved.
19
23%
 
Total votes : 81

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:13 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:I can clarify that currently, it is intentional that this tactic is allowed. We have discussed in the past whether we want to revisit this. The main argument, as IcePack points out, against the change in speed games is that it requires skill to be able to complete a turn on time, and this change would make it easier to play speed games because you wouldn't have to worry about ending your turn on time (obviously this has the biggest impact on freestyle). Doc's response is not really responsive because the reason why people wait out their turns is precisely because they want to be able to respond to everyone else's moves. If, as a result, no one gets to reinforce where they want, then everyone is on an even par. Still, it is not obvious to me that making speed freestyle games 'easier' in this respect is a bad thing; it might be good to add this safety in, as it would make it more possible for people with slower connections to compete (and might just increase new interest in freestyle in general). Nevertheless, we would certainly entertain a solution that made this change for all game types but speed freestyle.

The argument that players will have too much time to take their turns is a completely different subject. That seems more like a suggestion for still shorter turn limits(30 seconds?). The issue here is players deliberately letting their turn run out and wasting time right?
Like someone mentioned earlier, the only real solution seems to be having this rule be an option when you create a game.
Image
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:28 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:I can clarify that currently, it is intentional that this tactic is allowed. We have discussed in the past whether we want to revisit this. The main argument, as IcePack points out, against the change in speed games is that it requires skill to be able to complete a turn on time, and this change would make it easier to play speed games because you wouldn't have to worry about ending your turn on time (obviously this has the biggest impact on freestyle). Doc's response is not really responsive because the reason why people wait out their turns is precisely because they want to be able to respond to everyone else's moves. If, as a result, no one gets to reinforce where they want, then everyone is on an even par. Still, it is not obvious to me that making speed freestyle games 'easier' in this respect is a bad thing; it might be good to add this safety in, as it would make it more possible for people with slower connections to compete (and might just increase new interest in freestyle in general). Nevertheless, we would certainly entertain a solution that made this change for all game types but speed freestyle.

The argument that players will have too much time to take their turns is a completely different subject. That seems more like a suggestion for still shorter turn limits(30 seconds?). The issue here is players deliberately letting their turn run out and wasting time right?


Yes, it's true that what Doc is trying to achieve is related to the latter issue, but I'm saying the two aren't disconnected, since there do exist speed freestyle games with more than 30 seconds. There is skill in being able to wait until the last few seconds of your turn, play your reinforcements correctly and then end your turn before time runs out to get a spoil. This would be erased with this change unless we turned the effect off for speed freestyle.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Metsfanmax
 
Posts: 4161
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 43
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (7)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Ace Rimmer on Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:49 pm

I would not have an issue with the rules being different for freestyle vs standard (and whether or not you include speed in that). Maybe all speed games you have to click end turn to get a spoil, standard games you do not. I think that is a well balanced approach that would fit the needs of two different groups of people (speed freestylers vs clan players) that have differing opinions.
User avatar
Captain Ace Rimmer
 
Posts: 1908
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:22 pm
Medals: 72
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (10) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (9) Map Contribution (1)
Tournament Contribution (7) General Contribution (4)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby rdsrds2120 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:57 pm

As a speed freestyle player myself, I echo the concerns voiced by Metsfanmax. I've been contemplating this rule for about a week now and I arrived at the same conclusion that Ace has, which is to not change the rule for freestyle.

BMO
Image
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class rdsrds2120
Retired Administrator
 
Posts: 7229
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:42 am
Medals: 90
Conquer Cup Bronze Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (3) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Battle Royale Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (9)
Clan Achievement (7) Training Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (4) General Contribution (9)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Foxglove on Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:44 pm

rdsrds2120 wrote:As a speed freestyle player myself, I echo the concerns voiced by Metsfanmax. I've been contemplating this rule for about a week now and I arrived at the same conclusion that Ace has, which is to not change the rule for freestyle.

BMO


Is that your opinion as a player, or as an admin?

As an admin, do you acknowledge that the current behavior is intentional and as designed? Or that it's a bug that needs to be fixed?

A lot of the current clan discussion seems to have been predicated on the assumption that the behavior was a bug.
General Foxglove
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 1289
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:05 pm
Medals: 61
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (7) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (12)
Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (7)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby ManBungalow on Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:47 pm

I think taking/bombarding regions and not ending a turn is a legitimate tactic sometimes (especially in nuclear games), and not exclusively in speed games.

It's frowned up (particularly if a player makes a habit of it or it is outright irritating to another player), but still valid. The thing about perceived 'loopholes' such as this is that, if another player can exploit it, so can you.

And as already explored above, being punished for not ending soon enough by not gaining a card applies to freestyle speed games. I don't know if the game type is familiar to most people, but when every player in an 8-man freestyle escalating speed game has 5 cards in hand, it gets down to 10 seconds left in the forced-cash round when things start happening. It's a frantic rush to cash last, but also to end one's turn. Those who leave it too late/miscalculate may deploy the most troops, but miss out on a card. This is a nice quirk and I see no need to remove it.

And so, while I think this is a neat suggestion, I don't approve of it. Having it apply only to certain game types is a needless complication, and I don't think that players timing out and missing a card with 1 hour to take a turn is a commonplace problem.
Image
User avatar
Colonel ManBungalow
 
Posts: 3333
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:02 am
Location: On a giant rock orbiting a star somewhere
Medals: 84
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (2)
General Achievement (10) Clan Achievement (12) Tournament Contribution (3) General Contribution (6)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby D4 Damager on Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:14 pm

I completely support the OP's suggestion. I don't play or care about freestyle, so make a separate rule there if needs be, but in standard games it is stupid to allow people to avoid receiving a spoil if they timeout. I say stupid because the Instructions themselves say:

"You earn spoils at the end of every turn in which you successfully conquer a region, just like reality!"

Unless you want to argue that a turn that timed out did not end (which is also stupid, the turn has ended but before the player has had a chance to complete their intended actions) then what's happening in games at the moment simply does not match the site's own description.
Colonel D4 Damager
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:48 pm
Medals: 17
Standard Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (2)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby D4 Damager on Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:26 pm

ManBungalow wrote:I think taking/bombarding regions and not ending a turn is a legitimate tactic sometimes (especially in nuclear games), and not exclusively in speed games..

This is self-evidently true - while the site allows no spoils when timing out, then people can and will exploit it. The question is: SHOULD it be a legitimate tactic?

The problem is that you have two sets of players; one set that try to play by the rules as intended (and described in the Instructions) and another that gain advantage from the loophole. That's why the site should explicitly back one or the other way of doing things, so there is no difference of expectation from players and therefore no unfair advantage.

ManBungalow wrote:I don't think that players timing out and missing a card with 1 hour to take a turn is a commonplace problem.
Maybe not commonplace but I timed out in a game a few days ago after making an attack because I got pulled away. I would really have appreciated getting the spoil, given that I had made the attack for that reason. Perhaps that's my fault for playing CC at work though! ;-)
Colonel D4 Damager
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:48 pm
Medals: 17
Standard Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (2)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby mc05025 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:45 pm

I do not like that. Giving the opportunity toa player to decide if he should take a card or not makes the game more complicated. Deciding if you should take a card or not is not easy in many cases. I suppport any feature that makes the game more complicated and more intresting.

So I support more the idea of making a small button saying 'end turn without taking a spoil' (you will have to lose your reinforcement too if you chose that way to end your turn.
User avatar
Colonel mc05025
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:09 pm
Medals: 33
Conqueror Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2)
Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (5)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Dukasaur on Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:51 pm

The point has been made before, and needs to be made here: consider what this would mean in real life. If you were playing the board game at the kitchen table, and someone finished his turn but forgot to take a card, would that stand? Or would you grab a card and hand it to him? I think the not-taking-spoil thing is an exploit. Granted it's an exploit the site has tolerated, but it's still not a genuine "strategy".
User avatar
Major Dukasaur
Head Socialite
Head Socialite
 
Posts: 10966
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:49 pm
Location: Beautiful Niagara
Medals: 133
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (19)
General Achievement (14) Clan Achievement (9) Training Achievement (2) Challenge Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (31)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Bones2484 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:01 pm

Dukasaur wrote:The point has been made before, and needs to be made here: consider what this would mean in real life. If you were playing the board game at the kitchen table, and someone finished his turn but forgot to take a card, would that stand? Or would you grab a card and hand it to him? I think the not-taking-spoil thing is an exploit. Granted it's an exploit the site has tolerated, but it's still not a genuine "strategy".


The better question is: If someone finished his turn and refused to take a card, would that stand?

Agreed with the rest of your post, though. Well put.
User avatar
Major Bones2484
 
Posts: 2308
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:24 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA (G1)
Medals: 65
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (23) General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (9) General Contribution (1)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby hotfire on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:11 pm

losing a game because u ran out of time and didnt get a card in a sequential escalating speed game is a bummer....i support this feature
User avatar
Colonel hotfire
 
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:50 pm
Medals: 67
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (25) Clan Achievement (7) Challenge Achievement (1)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby ahunda on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:12 pm

I understand, that not getting a card when running out of time adds to the skill & tension in Speed/FS games, but it serves no purpose at all in casual games.

I want to quote an analogy someone used in an older thread concerning this issue:

Imagine a couple of people sitting at a table, playing the board game.

Player A (rolls the dice, conquers a terr, hands the dice to Player B): I´m done. Your turn.
Player B: You need to take a card.
Player A: No, I skip the card.
Player B: lolwot ?

To me, it´s as simple as that. It´s, what the rules say & how the original game is supposed to work: If you conquer a terr, you get a card. If you are in a situation, where you don´t want another card, don´t conquer a terr. That is the true strategic choice, that is within the game rules. Intentionally timing out to skip the card is exploiting a loophole in the CC system.

Now in the old days this wasn´t such a big issue, because generally ending your turn, using your fort & getting a card was to your own advantage. Situations in Esc games, where running out of time to skip the card can be advantageous, are rare. Thus the loophole was seldom exploited.

Then came along the Nuclear cards, where skipping cards can be very advantageous indeed, and so the practice became epidemic in that game type.

I think, when Nuclear cards were first suggested, the problem of holding cards for your own terrs was seen as a particularly challenging/interesting aspect of the game type, that would require new approaches & strategies, forcing players to move stacks so they wouldn´t nuke themselves, etc. This entire idea has widely been circumvented by simply not taking cards anymore, when in danger of having to hit your own terrs.

I seriously doubt, that this was the idea & intention behind Nuclear cards, when they were originally suggested & discussed. And I fail to see, what this has to do with advanced strategy.

EDIT: Fastposted by Dukasaur, who used the same RL Risk analogy ...
Field Marshal ahunda
 
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:52 am
Medals: 28
Conqueror Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2)
Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (6)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby D4 Damager on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:35 pm

The good thing is: everybody agrees that whatever system is used, it should be explicit. So perhaps the best and easiest alternative would be to have it as a game option? That way, both ways are possible while nobody is caught unawares by unexpected behaviour
Colonel D4 Damager
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:48 pm
Medals: 17
Standard Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (2)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:14 pm

mc05025 wrote:I do not like that. Giving the opportunity toa player to decide if he should take a card or not makes the game more complicated. Deciding if you should take a card or not is not easy in many cases. I suppport any feature that makes the game more complicated and more intresting.


Would you support a feature that required you to solve a math problem correctly before initiating an assault? Not all complications to the game are desirable simply because they make the game more complicated, nor is it the case that giving people more options is always a good thing. There needs to be a better argument for this than simply that "it gives people more options." There are myriad ways to do that. We want to retain only the ones that truly add fun gameplay that is challenging in a non-trivial way, while retaining an element of fairness and preventing abuse.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Metsfanmax
 
Posts: 4161
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 43
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (7)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby rishaed on Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:29 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
mc05025 wrote:I do not like that. Giving the opportunity toa player to decide if he should take a card or not makes the game more complicated. Deciding if you should take a card or not is not easy in many cases. I suppport any feature that makes the game more complicated and more intresting.


Would you support a feature that required you to solve a math problem correctly before initiating an assault? Not all complications to the game are desirable simply because they make the game more complicated, nor is it the case that giving people more options is always a good thing. There needs to be a better argument for this than simply that "it gives people more options." There are myriad ways to do that. We want to retain only the ones that truly add fun gameplay that is challenging in a non-trivial way, while retaining an element of fairness and preventing abuse.

^This. I've always known the rules to be, if you take a territory, you get a card at the end of your turn. (this is applied to all cases). The only difference is that here unless you click the button that says end turn, you don't really end your turn. As such the strategy doesn't really apply to how risk is supposed to be played. :roll: You don't want a card? Fine, then don't take a territ and just use your troops to buff your own. You have to take a territory to break someones bonus? Its a choice you have to make. But the fact is, which is more important to you? Not getting the card or breaking your opponents bonus/hold on a certain area?
aage wrote: Maybe you're right, but since we receive no handlebars from the mod I think we should get some ourselves.

Image
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class rishaed
 
Posts: 657
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:54 pm
Location: Somewhere in the Foundry forums looking for whats going on!
Medals: 17
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (1) General Achievement (4)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby mc05025 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:54 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
mc05025 wrote:I do not like that. Giving the opportunity toa player to decide if he should take a card or not makes the game more complicated. Deciding if you should take a card or not is not easy in many cases. I suppport any feature that makes the game more complicated and more intresting.


Would you support a feature that required you to solve a math problem correctly before initiating an assault? Not all complications to the game are desirable simply because they make the game more complicated, nor is it the case that giving people more options is always a good thing. There needs to be a better argument for this than simply that "it gives people more options." There are myriad ways to do that. We want to retain only the ones that truly add fun gameplay that is challenging in a non-trivial way, while retaining an element of fairness and preventing abuse.


Obviously I do not support features that has nothing to do with the game but I support any kind of complications that fits normally at the existing rules. I include on these the

1.intentional missing of a turn
2.killling your teammate
3.stealling a kill at freestyle ecalating casual game
4.giving the enemy or your own position at fog games
5.lying on the chat or backstubing
6. Start last at a freestyle game with objective, take the objectve and hold down the b key
7. at freestyle game when there are only 2 players at the game, play before your opponet and then leave a couple of hours before taking your turn again in order to make sure your opponent is not online
and maybe there are more

Some of you think that some of them are cheap tactics while some of you think that they are ok. I am using and I like all of them as they add a complication and while I am calculating my moves I concider that my opponent is going to use them. All of them fit nicely at the game. I do not say lets try and make more of them, but eliminating them doesn't sound a good idea to me especialy when there are so many other changes that should be done.


Finally that game has nothing to do with the board game. The way that the board game doesn't have the feature to skip a card doesn't mean anything. The board game is at classic map and flat rate. If you like the board game, stick at the clasic map, flat rate and sunny and noone is going to use any of the aformentioned strategies against you.
User avatar
Colonel mc05025
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:09 pm
Medals: 33
Conqueror Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2)
Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (5)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:34 pm

IcePack wrote:So if you are playing a 1 min freestyle esc game, and can't get your whole turn (assualt, reinforcement, end turn) in because of lack of time...is it going to reward your slow play with a card as well regardless of whether you were assualting still, reinforcing, etc?

Back to the above as I feel it is at the core of the issue...
In a perfect world everyone has lighting fast internet speed and no timeouts. However, in reality as we know it this is far from true. I actually can't even play 1 minute speeders on my current setup for the reason that my computer simply can't communicate with the server fast enough. So the illusion that both players have the same amount of time rarely coincides with what is actually happening.

That being said, the advantage gained at the end of a turn due to connection speed is only increased with the benefit of having that little extra amount of time in the end to confirm the finish of your turn and get your card(potentially a very big contributing factor to the winning of a game). For the sake of the closest thing to an even playing field I think that an automatic card may be the best bet, especially in a speed game. Why put more emphasis than there already is on connection speed and at least give someone an automatic card with a successful assault. If you have a message of any kind that makes you confirm one way or another, there is too much of an advantage to a fast connection.

So essentially, for the sake of a truly fair game, you really can't have the option of not taking a card. The only way would be if your turn could be extended to make up for your internet connection (new suggestion?).
Image
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby D4 Damager on Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:00 pm

mc05025 wrote:Obviously I do not support features that has nothing to do with the game but I support any kind of complications that fits normally at the existing rules.

OK, but do you concede that this feature introduces no extra complexity given that you have to take a strategic decision either way? As ahunda mentioned:

No spoil on timeout means you have to decide if it is worth sacrificing your reinforcement phase to avoid a spoil.

Auto spoil on timeout means you have to decide if it is worth sacrificing your assault phase to avoid a spoil.

From this point of view, I can't see why you would defend either option except that it is what you are used to.
Colonel D4 Damager
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:48 pm
Medals: 17
Standard Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (2)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:00 pm

D4 Damager wrote:
mc05025 wrote:Obviously I do not support features that has nothing to do with the game but I support any kind of complications that fits normally at the existing rules.

OK, but do you concede that this feature introduces no extra complexity given that you have to take a strategic decision either way? As ahunda mentioned:

No spoil on timeout means you have to decide if it is worth sacrificing your reinforcement phase to avoid a spoil.

Auto spoil on timeout means you have to decide if it is worth sacrificing your assault phase to avoid a spoil.

From this point of view, I can't see why you would defend either option except that it is what you are used to.


I think he supports it because it is a tactic he can use. This option eliminates a tactic that some players appreciate.
show
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class DoomYoshi
Entertainment Coordinator
Entertainment Coordinator
 
Posts: 3961
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:30 pm
Location: Termina Field
Medals: 72
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (8) Clan Achievement (16)
Tournament Contribution (6) General Contribution (5)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Armandolas on Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:34 pm

Its a very basic rule of risk...every turn u get to conquer a territ you are awarded a card.
Do we pretend we are playing something else?
It is a cheap tactic, not strat.Its a clock exploit.
if u dont want to card, play no spoils or dont attack.
I think fair play is more important than any 1 min freestyle game.
User avatar
Colonel Armandolas
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:32 am
Location: Lisbon
Medals: 92
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (2) Bot Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (16)
General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (4) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (24)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Doc_Brown on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:02 pm

Edited the first post to add a poll.
User avatar
Major Doc_Brown
 
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:06 pm
Location: Alabama
Medals: 31
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (2)
General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (3) Training Achievement (2)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby Bruceswar on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:58 am

Just want to say that I am in full support here. I would assume all the other CD's would be also.
Highest Rank: 26 Highest Score: 3480
Image
User avatar
Captain Bruceswar
 
Posts: 9572
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:36 am
Location: Cow Pastures
Medals: 141
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (4)
Terminator Achievement (3) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3)
Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (14) General Achievement (14) Clan Achievement (19) Training Achievement (6) Map Contribution (1)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:05 am

Dukasaur wrote:The point has been made before, and needs to be made here: consider what this would mean in real life. If you were playing the board game at the kitchen table, and someone finished his turn but forgot to take a card, would that stand? Or would you grab a card and hand it to him? I think the not-taking-spoil thing is an exploit. Granted it's an exploit the site has tolerated, but it's still not a genuine "strategy".


My House Rules have allowed one exception per player--especially if alcohol and other stimulants are involved. Requests for a second exception are loudly rejected.
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 4355
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Automatically award spoils even if a player times out

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:14 am

Since the general rule of "Risk" has been: you must card if you take a territory, then this loophole on this site shouldn't be tolerated. Since this is CC and IIRC the rules on spoils are not codified anywhere on the site, then I'm not so sure. "Foe and move on" if you don't like particular players doing that?

    Best Compromise
    :
    I do like the "End Turn - Do not card" button though. We should allow an option in the game settings which prohibits/allows this 'exploit' for particular games, thus satisfying the "don't touch my freestyle, speed games" crowd and also people like DocBrown. Since that button enables users to clearly establish particular rules for particular games, and since people are free to join any game they want, then the entire spectrum of players can be satisfied.



(Should we add this option to the poll? :P).

Tip of the Hat to Nicky15 and Vid_FISO.
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 4355
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

PreviousNext

Return to Submitted Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Login