Why Don't More People Take Up Freestyle?

[rhp 1]

FIRST.... this is freestyle speed games I'm talking about here, not freestyle casual/24hr... 2 completely different styles of gameplay...

just wondering... I constantly hear people who know almost nothing about the freestyle setting bashing it... of course there are abuses of the setting, but if you look at most 6 person Doodle escalating fs speeders, or 8 man escalating fs speed games, or even a large % of 1vs.1 fs games, you're not gonna find anyone getting "farmed" or "ranched" or herded, or whatever name the mods give it this week... in short, very little "abuse" occurs in freestyle speed games...

is it strictly a connection/computer speed thing? of course if you know anything about fs speed gameplay, speed (how fast one is able to move armies from point to point) is a fairly important (but not mandatory) aspect of the game... if you have a horrible connection and play someone with a solid connection, then yeah.... you're screwed in most games... but only "reasonable" speed is required to excel at fs as long as your gameplay is solid... OR, are people just afraid to lose points while they learn a completely different style of gameplay? I know that if I didn't switch to 90% freestyle games a while back, no way would I still be playing... and i also know I lost a substantial amount of points learning.... learning fs definitely kept me playing on this site... without it, I'd have quit long ago... A friend of mine on here who is a good player, and a very intelligent person with a good connection and clickable maps, tried to play fs once. this person found it very confusing and difficult to understand the gameplay, as did i the first time I tried it... she basically said "f*ck that" so i let it go... but I don't know if it was a "f*ck that" because she didn't like it, or didn't want to learn, or didn't want to lose points learning... I didn't want to ask... but I've been curious why ever since.. maybe you folks can help me

so why don't more people play/learn it? there's really no argument against the fact that it's far more exciting and far more interactive... entertaining? that's up to each person...

your thoughts?

[Funkyterrance]

In my case, yes it's an internet connection thing. My ping is really quite poor. There was some thread at one point that linked you to a site to find your connection speed and I was waaaaay below average.
There's also the problem with not liking the whole "watching" your games to take your turn advantageously. I went through this with one guy for a while as a team and it was really obnoxious. He'd wall me saying "go now now now!!!" I was like, gimme a break this is stupid. I know you said just speed but this point is relevant because you have to "watch" to see when people turn and that's too much of a commitment. I don't like being totally glued to my computer.
Besides, I like sequential in it's gentlemanly nature. Even if I did have a decent connection I don't like playing games where the odds are stacked in any way, shape or form, even if they are stacked in my favor.

[rhp 1]

In my case, yes it's an internet connection thing. My ping is really quite poor. There was some thread at one point that linked you to a site to find your connection speed and I was waaaaay below average.
There's also the problem with not liking the whole "watching" your games to take your turn advantageously. I went through this with one guy for a while as a team and it was really obnoxious. He'd wall me saying "go now now now!!!" I was like, gimme a break this is stupid. Speed freestyle you may ask? Haha, with my connection that's the stuff of dreams.

your first point, though accurate, is related to fs casual which is irrelevant to this convo, but yeah... fs casual is stupid... and yes, if your connection is poor, then that's an easy answer... I guess more to the point is... if you have a solid connection, why not give it a shot... I know it was worth the points I lost learning it...

[Jdsizzleslice]

Internet does play a role, as well as a laptop/desktop.

But overall, at least everyone should try. Those of us who are good at it have tried it and like it! My ping isn't the best, low 60% and high 50% at times. But I can still play Speed Freestyle well. Everyone should at least try once.

[Funkyterrance]

In my case, yes it's an internet connection thing. My ping is really quite poor. There was some thread at one point that linked you to a site to find your connection speed and I was waaaaay below average.
There's also the problem with not liking the whole "watching" your games to take your turn advantageously. I went through this with one guy for a while as a team and it was really obnoxious. He'd wall me saying "go now now now!!!" I was like, gimme a break this is stupid. Speed freestyle you may ask? Haha, with my connection that's the stuff of dreams.

your first point, though accurate, is related to fs casual which is irrelevant to this convo, but yeah... fs casual is stupid... and yes, if your connection is poor, then that's an easy answer... I guess more to the point is... if you have a solid connection, why not give it a shot... I know it was worth the points I lost learning it...

Yeah I edited my post because I forgot you said speeders only. But really, my connection is poor and I don't really like that idea. Would you like to start running competitively against other people only you had to wear weights on your feet? It's just not a fun concept because of this flaw.
Btw, I think my ping was in the high 20s when I checked.

[Funkyterrance]

Besides, I really like the feeling of sequential. I feel like a high ranking officer in some underground war room, moving troops around with a shuffle and rubbing his chin when I play sequential. It's kind of a role-playing thing for me I think. Speeders feel more like roleplaying a meth addict or something like that.

[jsnyder748]

I would like to play more speeders. My school laptop/connection leaves me in the dust. Only when I go home do I have as fast a computer as all you speeders.

Plus it takes time to do them. Don't have an excess of time.

[Agent 86]

Impossible for me to play freestyle speed, in fact any freestyle. Internet speed is atrocious here in China, it is like giving points away. I would love to play freestyle, just not an option for me!!

[maasman]

When I first started playing all I did was freestyle. As a freemium it was the only way to actually play a decent number of games. Even when I first went premium I continued to play for a bit. What caused me to stop? Clickies. Clickies are the sole reason why I personally can no longer play freestyle. It birthed a whole new kind of speed player, one that I could not possibly match. I consider myself decent in freestyle, almost won an 8 player tournament once, but when I came back to a couple of times several years later, I was getting smoked by people and just couldn't keep up. I personally love freestyle, but I don't feel like having to deal with clickies or the site implementation of them. That and the fact that my internet connection is never a sure thing, but that is mostly secondary.

[Mr Changsha]

Great topic...

Why don't I play speed freestyle?

It is not actually a question of connection speed (as even though I am in China I have had some decent connections over the years), but much more mental speed. There! I admit it! I'm the kind of chap who needs to play sequential speed with at least 3 mins. on the clock, I simply can't process all the various factors I want to in a very, very short time.

I've always admired speed freestyle players and assuming they play sunny these are the games I most enjoy watching. Back in 2008 the 8 man classic freestyle speed games were epic and if I had the required mental dexterity I would most certainly play as well.

I agree with FT about the joys of sequential though. I think it is a more mature game, a more considered game and one in which really intense consideration is rewarded. I am a sequential player, always have been, and just as it is wrong for sequential players to look down on freestyle players, it is equally wrong for freestyle players to do the same...

...except in the case of casual standard freestyle 8 man games which I think have always been ripe for abuse, the odd freestyle quads farming exercises, freestyle 1vs1 farming practices. Heh, maybe there is a lot to criticise freestyle for and players that have achieved high ranks through such methods are quite rightly ignored in terms of being considered great players. But large standard speed freestyle? That is a great game and one that has my respect.

[Donelladan]

You say there is no farming in freestyle speed.
But what are the chance of a player winning against you if he does not have clickies? I'd say none, and that's why people consider it is a kind of farming. You play against people unaware of it, so you are just gaining easy points.
You may prefer playing players with same abilities than you for the rush and the challenge it gives you of course, but we cant ignore the other part.

And I think, when a noob ( speaking about freestyle) join one of your game, he does not even understand how you can be so fast, he played a game where he recognized he had 0% chance of winning, and probably decide to not play it anymore. I think thats the major reason why people dont play freestyle speed.
If you want it to change, you shoud, I think, always give link to clickies and explained to noobs why you beat them, that way they may learn and come back to kick your ass

[Tenebrus]

Doesn't everyone have clickies now though through the website? I've never played with any mods, just what the site gives me and even back in the day I'd win a few of the 8p classic fs games with Prankcall and the rest. You definitely don't need any mods now to get a good plus score going. I'm pretty sure that I have a major plus score for 6p doodle fs esc games without any of that stuff.

I really don't understand why more people don't play them. Those games (and especially the old skool 8 player esc classic games) just always seemed like the most fun CC has to offer.

I think one of the reasons more people don't play is that the current group of people who play them often are quite cliquey and quick to anger. The rules for giving yourself a decent chance are not that complicated, but they aren't super obvious either (don't hit stacks, don't (generally) go for bonuses, win through elim, only try and elim if it gives you a meaningful recash). I always try and teach a bit if someone's not getting it. You never know if that noob is going to turn into the next fs expert, but it's not something I often see people do. People are much more likely to just yell at them, insult them and then foe them.

Even ping speed isn't *that* important. The number of casual fs games that come down to just ping speed are much lower than people generally think. A quick mind is much more important - particularly on doodle where most of the casual fs games get played now.

I really miss the old 8p fs games, I wish they'd get going again

[Gabriel13]

Yeah, I agree with Tene. People that join the games that have never played them before usually noob people, so we have a very small group of people that isn't foed. There's usually only MAYBE 8 great speed FS players on at a time, and that's even hard to get! We usually get 4-5 fs players, and a couple noobs, and when that noob takes a bonus, or kills somebody for no reason, they get foed. I'm not against this, because trust me, I do it too. All of my foed (except a few) are from 6-player speed FS on doodle. I don't even think about it really. I just kind a do it, but if they weren't complete idiots, we wouldn't have to do it.

[Tenebrus]

I just wish people were given a couple of games to redeem themselves - and maybe a few steers on game chat. I know it's frustrating to lose 40 points because someone noobed you, but it's only points - and not nearly as frustrating as waiting 2 hours for a 6p fs game to fill :/

[greenoaks]

you only have yourselves to blame.

the pool of players is already small and then you foe those that wander in.

[ManBungalow]

I feel that the quality of those big escalating speed games has decreased in the last two years or so. Or at least I don't enjoy them as much now.

From 'my day' (get off my lawn!), speed has been a crucial part of the games, but somehow there was more strategy to it than a simple pissing contest, which it seems to be now. I used to lose an 8-player classic speed escalating game feeling that I'd been out-played or out-smarted, but now I feel like somebody quicker than me has won. Unless, of course, it's me winning. This actually also applies to freestyle 1vs1.

And I'm sure that jumping into your first ever freestyle speed game to be beaten by somebody moving at 90% of the speed of light could scare you off. I can imagine what it's like to lose all of your regions and have no idea what's happened. It follows from this that the current freestyle speed players are part of the same dying group, because nearly everybody else is intimidated off/foed. Is there a solution to this? I don't really think so.

[betiko]

here's the thing, I know lots of you denied that but it has been proven by some players. CC Servers are in the US/canada; and it's pretty impossible for none north americans to play freestyle speeders vs north americas. even though you hold the B button or whatever, by the time your turn starts the north american has already done a move, because of the better ping. I guess we lose at least half a second and this changes everything. you basically have to rely on BS dice.

About the fact that it has been proven: NOS who is canadian and a really fast speed FS player who is now in an exchange program told me he had to give up because from europe the ping to the cc server had nothing to do with the one he had back home.

Other than this, I disagree, i love casual FS.

[Dukasaur]

I don't like fs speed for the same reason I don't like real-time games of any kind: I want time to think. Maybe that's just because I'm getting old, or maybe not. I recall that even when I was much younger I hated speed chess, for example. So I doubt if you would ever make a fs speed demon out of me.

However, there are young people on this site who probably would get good at it, if they were given some friendship and mentoring. Greenoaks said it best:

you only have yourselves to blame.

the pool of players is already small and then you foe those that wander in.

Spend some time helping those who might be interested and it will pay off in the long run.

[Mr Changsha]

I don't like fs speed for the same reason I don't like real-time games of any kind: I want time to think. Maybe that's just because I'm getting old, or maybe not. I recall that even when I was much younger I hated speed chess, for example. So I doubt if you would ever make a fs speed demon out of me.

However, there are young people on this site who probably would get good at it, if they were given some friendship and mentoring. Greenoaks said it best:

you only have yourselves to blame.

the pool of players is already small and then you foe those that wander in.

Spend some time helping those who might be interested and it will pay off in the long run.

Is speed freestyle a young man's game?

[anonymus]

well i think OP puts it in sort of a greyish light when he says that speed is not the most important part..
I play some fs speeders but ONLY on conquest-maps where i dont need to keep track of many stacks and there i am SOMETIMES quick enough, but still against experienced FS-specialists im mosty doomed..
as an example i managed to get a few wins on ST-Pat 8 man 1 min fs, but then this is a map where luck is a main factor..

on new world i win 70+% of my sequential games but FS im pretty much lost because i cannot take enough terr per turn to keep my deploy high..

on feudal i am specialized but still i only join fs-games when i am VERY bored because the speed-element is the same here as in new world (even with just 1 mainstack if you are 2nd on the auto-button when you clash you are doomed)

basically the only map im successful in FS speed is ww2 poland and its just because i know every move before i make it and against someone who can take 3 terr last 2 seconds im still lost..

and i think this is the reason why people dont play more fs.. if you are not a specialist and quick as a freaking rabbit (with a great line to the server) you WILL lose even if your strategy is good when faced with a specialist quick as a freaking rabbit with good line to the server..

so.. OP i think you are being a bit naive (or trying to reel more people in saying speed is only part of it.. or as marco pierre white would say (chef) speed can compensate for talent but talent cant compensate for speed (freely adapted to this scenario).

/

[rhp 1]

You say there is no farming in freestyle speed.
But what are the chance of a player winning against you if he does not have clickies? I'd say none, and that's why people consider it is a kind of farming. You play against people unaware of it, so you are just gaining easy points.
You may prefer playing players with same abilities than you for the rush and the challenge it gives you of course, but we cant ignore the other part.

And I think, when a noob ( speaking about freestyle) join one of your game, he does not even understand how you can be so fast, he played a game where he recognized he had 0% chance of winning, and probably decide to not play it anymore. I think thats the major reason why people dont play freestyle speed.
If you want it to change, you shoud, I think, always give link to clickies and explained to noobs why you beat them, that way they may learn and come back to kick your ass

well first.... stop hating... sencond, I've shown 100's, yes 100's the link to clickable maps and held a lot of their hands while they implemented them... why would I not? it's in my interest to get them to play fs... second... yea genius, if someone plays fs against me without clicks... well... duh.... but that's not my point... I love to get people to play fs.. more players... more fun.. faster fills on speed games...

[rhp 1]

well i think OP puts it in sort of a greyish light when he says that speed is not the most important part..
I play some fs speeders but ONLY on conquest-maps where i dont need to keep track of many stacks and there i am SOMETIMES quick enough, but still against experienced FS-specialists im mosty doomed..
as an example i managed to get a few wins on ST-Pat 8 man 1 min fs, but then this is a map where luck is a main factor..

on new world i win 70+% of my sequential games but FS im pretty much lost because i cannot take enough terr per turn to keep my deploy high..

on feudal i am specialized but still i only join fs-games when i am VERY bored because the speed-element is the same here as in new world (even with just 1 mainstack if you are 2nd on the auto-button when you clash you are doomed)

basically the only map im successful in FS speed is ww2 poland and its just because i know every move before i make it and against someone who can take 3 terr last 2 seconds im still lost..

and i think this is the reason why people dont play more fs.. if you are not a specialist and quick as a freaking rabbit (with a great line to the server) you WILL lose even if your strategy is good when faced with a specialist quick as a freaking rabbit with good line to the server..

so.. OP i think you are being a bit naive (or trying to reel more people in saying speed is only part of it.. or as marco pierre white would say (chef) speed can compensate for talent but talent cant compensate for speed (freely adapted to this scenario).

/

fair points... but you bring up a perfect comparison... I play Malabross (sp) on New World from time to time... fs, fog adj, no spoils... I'm a not small amount faster than him... I have a lot of trouble beating him on that map settings... I know and play the map very well, maprank if you wish, but his settings, and ability to play mistake free and solid every game is more important than the speed differential... but often times you are right...

[rhp 1]

I don't like fs speed for the same reason I don't like real-time games of any kind: I want time to think. Maybe that's just because I'm getting old, or maybe not. I recall that even when I was much younger I hated speed chess, for example. So I doubt if you would ever make a fs speed demon out of me.

However, there are young people on this site who probably would get good at it, if they were given some friendship and mentoring. Greenoaks said it best:

you only have yourselves to blame.

the pool of players is already small and then you foe those that wander in.

Spend some time helping those who might be interested and it will pay off in the long run.

Is speed freestyle a young man's game?

no.. I'm almost 40.. lol

[Night Strike]

I prefer to make my moves before the last 5-10 seconds of a round, so I don't play speed freestyle.

[rhp 1]

I feel that the quality of those big escalating speed games has decreased in the last two years or so. Or at least I don't enjoy them as much now.

From 'my day' (get off my lawn!), speed has been a crucial part of the games, but somehow there was more strategy to it than a simple pissing contest, which it seems to be now. I used to lose an 8-player classic speed escalating game feeling that I'd been out-played or out-smarted, but now I feel like somebody quicker than me has won. Unless, of course, it's me winning. This actually also applies to freestyle 1vs1.

And I'm sure that jumping into your first ever freestyle speed game to be beaten by somebody moving at 90% of the speed of light could scare you off. I can imagine what it's like to lose all of your regions and have no idea what's happened. It follows from this that the current freestyle speed players are part of the same dying group, because nearly everybody else is intimidated off/foed. Is there a solution to this? I don't really think so.

"get off my lawn"... hahaha... I almost fell off the fkn chair...