Letter to the Clans of CC

[freakns]

Here's a random, crazy idea - perhaps the CDs need to take control of the Newcomer's Cup or the All Comer's Cup as well, and make them official clan tournaments.

That way we can preserve the Conqueror's Cup as the premier tournament in all of it's seeded glory (too much? haha), and we can have the CDs run the other tournaments to meet the needs of clans at every level. If you want to play against the big guns? Join the CCup. If you're a new and/or inexperienced clan, join the official NCC and get some great experience and some wins under your belt. If you're an established casual clan, join the official ACC. If your engines are turned up to 11 and you want to be in all the challenges, all the time - join all 3!

i think you misunderstood CDs completely.
this is their philosophy:


i ask them are they ready to any kind of loosen control, and receive 0( zero, null, cero, nul, нуль, zéro, noll, fucking nula ) response. in same time they hurry up with spamming inbox inviting teams to join.
being CD is like a dream job, like they are working in some public institution here in serbia. level of responsibility= non existent, level of control=full with desire to increase. and they intend to keep it that way.

and here was i being fulled that they really want to listen to others and want as much democracy as possible! well, they aint fulling me again, although they do sound heartfelt, so be careful!

Sorry, you posted over the weekend (And I did want to take a bit of a break after my dissertation previously ), so while I did (&do) plan on responding to you (as well as Denise, crispy & others, perhaps eddie not so much ) it couldn't be immediate, and right now I've also been busy trying to defend myself from other mods as well so it could still take a while to address everyone's queries
There's unfortunately quite a bit clamoring going on, and I do have to carefully consider my responses elsewise they're jumped on as well from all sides, so I admit there may be some ducking-and-diving to avoid the tough questions until I can actually give them due consideration.

However, to quickly try change tack & address your points while I can since I don't want you to be disheartened again with us as I do acknowledge that you were willing to give us the benefit of the doubt in directing constructive comments at us:
1. I don't want to say that we're past the point of changing the format, but unfortunately the reality is that I don't think any more dithering will be looked kindly upon either. I know we did seriously consider making it 8 seeds instead of 16, and if there is unanimous support for it as a more suitable alternative we can look into it & making other minor adjustments, but I think we may be past the point of being able to completely overhaul the format again.

For the rest, regarding having 3 other bodies be in charge of the process to develop a new solution for the CCup, I'm truly unsure whether it would be feasible anymore.

And then quickly regarding the AoC/Emp debate that has been carrying on. I can only reiterate that we (from my Clans perspective, I haven't been involved in any CD deliberations because of the conflict of interest) were removed from CL5 because of concern regarding the 1 competitive clan rule & the continuity thereafter
However, that is completely separate from the eligibility criteria for CCup4, with the involvement in CDF being implemented earlier with the additions of Atlantis & vvv

8 seeds instead of 16 was just what i had in mind(even thought that place Otpisani outside of seeding position). i think lower position clans would be more happy with it and as for higher ranked clans, i dont think they would be strongly against it too. i mean, at the end, its not that different if you are facing FOED or PIG...

as for having 3 players dictation all the Cup, it is unfeasible if you want 7-8 of you to work together. i was thinking more that you guys give them managing of the competition. and to be clear, im not talking about some 3 random players, im talking about players who are well respected and have shown in the past they are pretty good at organizing things(something, like it or not, CDs havent shown us so far). but, since we are debating about it, at the time debate is over, it will be too late.

as for you being late, are you the only CD giving the answers? bruce here is bitching about eddie, and so far, for all the time CDF exist we saw 0 constructive posts from him. i do understand that he is the head of department, but he is also KORT representative, so if you guys encourage debate, then i guess input from top clan on site would be welcomed?

for the end, i would ask you to start organizing CCup5 right now. and dont do it through form right away. first, talk with clan representative via PM, gather opinions, see what is most important, try to do something that will restore faith in your doing instead of laying low, then bomb us with question which is so badly formed my late grandmother have gas while reading it... and then when it all fails ask admin "what now"? (like i would give a f*ck what someone who isnt even in clan thinks whats the best)

[Bruceswar]

as for you being late, are you the only CD giving the answers? bruce here is bitching about eddie, and so far, for all the time CDF exist we saw 0 constructive posts from him. i do understand that he is the head of department, but he is also KORT representative, so if you guys encourage debate, then i guess input from top clan on site would be welcomed?

for the end, i would ask you to start organizing CCup5 right now. and dont do it through form right away. first, talk with clan representative via PM, gather opinions, see what is most important, try to do something that will restore faith in your doing instead of laying low, then bomb us with question which is so badly formed my late grandmother have gas while reading it... and then when it all fails ask admin "what now"? (like i would give a f*ck what someone who isnt even in clan thinks whats the best)

Few quick points.

1. If I respond telling people what I really think I am "an elitist punk"

2. If I respond with whatever people want I am a "sheep"

3. If I respond as head CD then I am "abusing my power" and crushing people

4. If I respond as a KORT rep, I am not only "a top ranked snob" I am also an "elitist punk" who has no interest at all for lower ranked clans.

P.S. I have made many post in CDF. I choose to stay mainly out of this debate as controversy of going in circles is not good for anybody. There have been about a 50 different ideas about how this tournament should be run, yet people on both sides did not want to give an inch. More to follow later. Off to work..

[jsnyder748]

what a cow^^^

[crispybits]

Few quick points.

1. If I respond telling people what I really think I am "an elitist punk"

2. If I respond with whatever people want I am a "sheep"

3. If I respond as head CD then I am "abusing my power" and crushing people

4. If I respond as a KORT rep, I am not only "a top ranked snob" I am also an "elitist punk" who has no interest at all for lower ranked clans.

P.S. I have made many post in CDF. I choose to stay mainly out of this debate as controversy of going in circles is not good for anybody. There have been about a 50 different ideas about how this tournament should be run, yet people on both sides did not want to give an inch. More to follow later. Off to work..

So what you're saying is that you're an elitist punk(1) from a clan full of elitist punks with delusions of grandeur(4) who thinks giving people what they want makes you a weak leader(2) and cannot exert authority in moderation(3)?

(this post firmly tongue in cheek - I gave up serious posting a couple of days ago as it was no good for my blood pressure)

[freakns]

as for you being late, are you the only CD giving the answers? bruce here is bitching about eddie, and so far, for all the time CDF exist we saw 0 constructive posts from him. i do understand that he is the head of department, but he is also KORT representative, so if you guys encourage debate, then i guess input from top clan on site would be welcomed?

for the end, i would ask you to start organizing CCup5 right now. and dont do it through form right away. first, talk with clan representative via PM, gather opinions, see what is most important, try to do something that will restore faith in your doing instead of laying low, then bomb us with question which is so badly formed my late grandmother have gas while reading it... and then when it all fails ask admin "what now"? (like i would give a f*ck what someone who isnt even in clan thinks whats the best)

Few quick points.

1. If I respond telling people what I really think I am "an elitist punk"

2. If I respond with whatever people want I am a "sheep"

3. If I respond as head CD then I am "abusing my power" and crushing people

4. If I respond as a KORT rep, I am not only "a top ranked snob" I am also an "elitist punk" who has no interest at all for lower ranked clans.

P.S. I have made many post in CDF. I choose to stay mainly out of this debate as controversy of going in circles is not good for anybody. There have been about a 50 different ideas about how this tournament should be run, yet people on both sides did not want to give an inch. More to follow later. Off to work..

i never said you havent post, i said you havent post anything constructive. if people are debating and you post one sentence, then you aren very productive...
as for if i post like this or that... so we all should be silent so we dont feel offended?

[Keefie]

HH would be extremely happy if only 8 clans were seeded.

[Vid_FISO]

HH would be extremely happy if only 8 clans were seeded.

'tis what I suggested it seems like months ago and then got lost in all the posturing

[jetsetwilly]

It's a tough one. We were really torn between 8 and 16 seeds. We made our choice and felt we should stick with it. Yes the posts from you guys do make us wonder if we had it the right way around but if we changed it again you just know we would get a pile of grief from someone else for either not liking it or being indecisive yet again !

[Doc_Brown]

It's a tough one. We were really torn between 8 and 16 seeds. We made our choice and felt we should stick with it. Yes the posts from you guys do make us wonder if we had it the right way around but if we changed it again you just know we would get a pile of grief from someone else for either not liking it or being indecisive yet again !

You could always put up a vote in the CDF forum. Let it run for a week, and give two options:
Seed top 8 clans.
Seed top 16 clans.

You've settled on the format, and that appears closed for discussion, but it sounds like you might be willing to budge on the number of seeds. Let the clans finalize that detail.

[greenoaks]

It's a tough one. We were really torn between 8 and 16 seeds. We made our choice and felt we should stick with it. Yes the posts from you guys do make us wonder if we had it the right way around but if we changed it again you just know we would get a pile of grief from someone else for either not liking it or being indecisive yet again !

You could always put up a vote in the CDF forum. Let it run for a week, and give two options:
Seed top 8 clans.
Seed top 16 clans.

You've settled on the format, and that appears closed for discussion, but it sounds like you might be willing to budge on the number of seeds. Let the clans finalize that detail.

hear hear

[Denise]

Bad idea, imo. Enough voting already. You've already made the decision and sign ups have started. If you change it now, I'm pretty sure someone will end up getting hurt.

[Chariot of Fire]

It's a tough one. We were really torn between 8 and 16 seeds. We made our choice and felt we should stick with it. Yes the posts from you guys do make us wonder if we had it the right way around but if we changed it again you just know we would get a pile of grief from someone else for either not liking it or being indecisive yet again !

You could always put up a vote in the CDF forum. Let it run for a week, and give two options:
Seed top 8 clans.
Seed top 16 clans.

You've settled on the format, and that appears closed for discussion, but it sounds like you might be willing to budge on the number of seeds. Let the clans finalize that detail.

This would have been the way to handle it. Of all the polls that were conducted, this would have been the simplest one. 16 seeds is far too many. If this number were to be carried on into future editions of the cup you would start to see some very repetitive encounters (as the F400 rankings really don't change that much the higher you go). The greater the element of random the more variety this tournament would have.

And variety is the spice of life n'est-ce-pas?

[eddie2]

It's a tough one. We were really torn between 8 and 16 seeds. We made our choice and felt we should stick with it. Yes the posts from you guys do make us wonder if we had it the right way around but if we changed it again you just know we would get a pile of grief from someone else for either not liking it or being indecisive yet again !

You could always put up a vote in the CDF forum. Let it run for a week, and give two options:
Seed top 8 clans.
Seed top 16 clans.

You've settled on the format, and that appears closed for discussion, but it sounds like you might be willing to budge on the number of seeds. Let the clans finalize that detail.

This would have been the way to handle it. Of all the polls that were conducted, this would have been the simplest one. 16 seeds is far too many. If this number were to be carried on into future editions of the cup you would start to see some very repetitive encounters (as the F400 rankings really don't change that much the higher you go). The greater the element of random the more variety this tournament would have.

And variety is the spice of life n'est-ce-pas?

lol i missed that bit of maths 16 seeds ...
51 clans only 32 places so if all 51 clans sign up it means a play in round to lose 19 clans. so take 19 of your 32 gives you 13 so 3 seeded clans will need to play in the play in round

lol so are seeded clans going to play a play in round about which ones will take part in the non seeded play in round....

like i have said format has never bothered me i put my thoughts about how i would like to see it but that was as far as it goes. but since you have it as 16 seeds, where it could be possible 3 clans signing up thinking they don't have to start straight away have to be put into the play in rounds. would it not then be a valid ask to reduce it down to 8 seeded clans...

[jghost7]

It's a tough one. We were really torn between 8 and 16 seeds. We made our choice and felt we should stick with it. Yes the posts from you guys do make us wonder if we had it the right way around but if we changed it again you just know we would get a pile of grief from someone else for either not liking it or being indecisive yet again !

You could always put up a vote in the CDF forum. Let it run for a week, and give two options:
Seed top 8 clans.
Seed top 16 clans.

You've settled on the format, and that appears closed for discussion, but it sounds like you might be willing to budge on the number of seeds. Let the clans finalize that detail.

This would have been the way to handle it. Of all the polls that were conducted, this would have been the simplest one. 16 seeds is far too many. If this number were to be carried on into future editions of the cup you would start to see some very repetitive encounters (as the F400 rankings really don't change that much the higher you go). The greater the element of random the more variety this tournament would have.

And variety is the spice of life n'est-ce-pas?

Why not alter a different tournament, or even create an entirely new event to create the randomized tournament that some are wishing for? I can see how it could be interesting. It does not have to be this tournament, it can be its own tourney and not have to deal with the problems surrounding this one. Just a thought.

Thanks,

J

[crispybits]

Fine with that, as long as CC4 gives up the "official tournament" tag and prizes that go with it and the official tournament is structured in a way that is equal for all clans, and gives nobody any inherent advantage.

[eddie2]

Fine with that, as long as CC4 gives up the "official tournament" tag and prizes that go with it and the official tournament is structured in a way that is equal for all clans, and gives nobody any inherent advantage.

or change the structure of this event
http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?mode=cup1
or this event
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=187701

or any tourney that has a offical title lets just seed them all.

to seed top ranking players give them byes to the next round hold playoffs for lower ranking players etc etc..

[freakns]

Fine with that, as long as CC4 gives up the "official tournament" tag and prizes that go with it and the official tournament is structured in a way that is equal for all clans, and gives nobody any inherent advantage.

it can be called my penis in erection unofficial CCup4 as long as i care(as long goes with care, not with full length of my penis... but i do like when someone cares about *him*)

its the competition that thrives me, not official/unofficial title. i dont give a f*ck about title(but you obviously do, even though youll never get close to it... strange)

as for inherited advantage as you call it, its not the advantage. TOFU was 4th seed on CC3, they have faced and beat Otpisani, PACK, KORT and will be facing AFOS in finals. according to latest F400 rankings, to win the cup they would have to beat no10, no4, no1 and no3 clans on list. considering they are no2, im really having problems to see that advantage here. or advantage is they can play bunch of village ppl resident in FISO in first round instead of some good and organized clan?

[Bruceswar]

Let me say a few things that have needed to be said.

1. For all those clans who are "boycotting" the event. I have to ask if you asked your clan if they would like to play or if this is just your knee jerk reaction to the situation. This is not meant as a slam on anybody, but sometimes we all need to step back a bit and take a deep breath and look again with a clearer head.

2. When dako first opened up discussions for a cup format it was a great thing. It allowed for people to express what they wanted this cup to be. Dako then decided to run the cup as it had been before. (Which I think most people were OK with.) Yes I know some people really wanted an all random cup. Putting it up for discussion and then taking it away I know did not sit well with a few people.

3. We CD's surely have some fault in this whole situation. We clearly made some mistakes and have learned from them. I am not going to place blame on anybody but I think everybody can say the situation boiled over.

4. I would like to apologize to Dako for not getting a chance to fire off a PM or letting him know that we CD's were taking this event official. I will not get into the why of it as I am not going to slam anybody, but there are valid reasons for it. This part I take full blame for and you can all chastise me for it.

5. This cup is going to be lots of fun for everybody involved. I know some of you are mad about how this shook down. When it became clear this had totally boiled over we called in rdsrds2021 for help. He asked us why we even put the format up for a vote. We expressed that full random was popular with some clans. In his words "Well, that's silly", and he wanted us to revert back to what the cup had been for years. We obviously picked a middle ground. With that said I hope you all do not miss out on this cup.

6. I would hope going forward that people will be able to put the differences aside. I saw lots of people shouting at each other, foeing people, and other things. We clans are above that. Sure a good healthy debate is good at times, but we as clans should not let another debate get so heated. No clan should be labeled as "an elitist asshole" or a "low ranked noob clan" Every clan has something to offer to the clan world and every clan is what makes this site so great. This is by far the best website for CC gaming. Bar none. Nobody is even close to having a clan community like ours. I would hope we can keep it that way. We CD's share in some of the blame as we did not step in the middle of the debate as much as we should at times.

7. I know some of you might not like the CD's right now, but I can say this. We CD's are volunteer workers and we spend many hours in the clan area so we can all have some fun. I know you might not agree with everything we do at times, but we are not here to try and make anybody's life on CC harder. We are here to try and do the best we can for clans. We are human and make mistakes at times. I hope going forward everybody can show some mutual respect towards each other.

I will close out with this. As Head CD I am sorry to those of you who feel slighted in all this. It was not my intention to make anybody feel left out. When you are juggling for 50+ clans you can sometimes make mistakes and thus making some clans angry. For that I am sorry and never meant to cause any malice at all. Feel free to flame me if you wish, but I am sincere when I say just like all of you I am here for the enjoyment of the game just like the rest of you. Sure different clans have different goals, but we all want the same thing. Some fun. The CD's are not here to take the fun away from anybody. So if you all want to blame someone, blame me.

[Chewie1]

Let me say a few things that have needed to be said.

1. For all those clans who are "boycotting" the event. I have to ask if you asked your clan if they would like to play or if this is just your knee jerk reaction to the situation. This is not meant as a slam on anybody, but sometimes we all need to step back a bit and take a deep breath and look again with a clearer head.

2. When dako first opened up discussions for a cup format it was a great thing. It allowed for people to express what they wanted this cup to be. Dako then decided to run the cup as it had been before. (Which I think most people were OK with.) Yes I know some people really wanted an all random cup. Putting it up for discussion and then taking it away I know did not sit well with a few people.

3. We CD's surely have some fault in this whole situation. We clearly made some mistakes and have learned from them. I am not going to place blame on anybody but I think everybody can say the situation boiled over.

4. I would like to apologize to Dako for not getting a chance to fire off a PM or letting him know that we CD's were taking this event official. I will not get into the why of it as I am not going to slam anybody, but there are valid reasons for it. This part I take full blame for and you can all chastise me for it.

5. This cup is going to be lots of fun for everybody involved. I know some of you are mad about how this shook down. When it became clear this had totally boiled over we called in rdsrds2021 for help. He asked us why we even put the format up for a vote. We expressed that full random was popular with some clans. In his words "Well, that's silly", and he wanted us to revert back to what the cup had been for years. We obviously picked a middle ground. With that said I hope you all do not miss out on this cup.

6. I would hope going forward that people will be able to put the differences aside. I saw lots of people shouting at each other, foeing people, and other things. We clans are above that. Sure a good healthy debate is good at times, but we as clans should not let another debate get so heated. No clan should be labeled as "an elitist asshole" or a "low ranked noob clan" Every clan has something to offer to the clan world and every clan is what makes this site so great. This is by far the best website for CC gaming. Bar none. Nobody is even close to having a clan community like ours. I would hope we can keep it that way. We CD's share in some of the blame as we did not step in the middle of the debate as much as we should at times.

7. I know some of you might not like the CD's right now, but I can say this. We CD's are volunteer workers and we spend many hours in the clan area so we can all have some fun. I know you might not agree with everything we do at times, but we are not here to try and make anybody's life on CC harder. We are here to try and do the best we can for clans. We are human and make mistakes at times. I hope going forward everybody can show some mutual respect towards each other.

I will close out with this. As Head CD I am sorry to those of you who feel slighted in all this. It was not my intention to make anybody feel left out. When you are juggling for 50+ clans you can sometimes make mistakes and thus making some clans angry. For that I am sorry and never meant to cause any malice at all. Feel free to flame me if you wish, but I am sincere when I say just like all of you I am here for the enjoyment of the game just like the rest of you. Sure different clans have different goals, but we all want the same thing. Some fun. The CD's are not here to take the fun away from anybody. So if you all want to blame someone, blame me.

Some valid comments here Bruce, but without going over old ground...they should have been said earlier.

[Keefie]

Well it looks to me like there are still a few things to change before everyone can be all Happy Clappy again.

At the moment it looks like at least the following clans have no intention to enter with the rules as they stand:

Headless Horsemen
Manifest Destiny
FOED
VDLL
DBC
Clan_FISO
LOTZ

and by the look of the sign up's so far there are probably others. I can't speak for the others but I feel totally disenfranchised by the whole sorry episode. The compromise that was reached and the patronising positive spin it was given, left a very bad taste in my mouth.

What would change my mind: A reduction in the number of seeds to 8. 16 is way too many for a tourney of this size.

Keefie

[eddie2]

Well it looks to me like there are still a few things to change before everyone can be all Happy Clappy again.

At the moment it looks like at least the following clans have no intention to enter with the rules as they stand:

Headless Horsemen
Manifest Destiny
FOED
VDLL
DBC
Clan_FISO
LOTZ

and by the look of the sign up's so far there are probably others. I can't speak for the others but I feel totally disenfranchised by the whole sorry episode. The compromise that was reached and the patronising positive spin it was given, left a very bad taste in my mouth.

What would change my mind: A reduction in the number of seeds to 8. 16 is way too many for a tourney of this size.

Keefie

add aka to that list..

CONQUER CUP 2013
I have been keeping up to date with the forums.. including CD and friends...and from what I see this is a TOTAL SHIT-FIGHT DISASTER recommend we not join in protest of how this has been organized.
IF there is anyone who is unhappy with this move, We can hold a vote in the clan forum (reply to EDDIE2,RAZORVICH, dorsettrob in a PM)....otherwise lets leave this one to the top clans that want to butt heads.
EDDIE2 is working on an alternative structure that will be heaps better than what is on offer.


NEWCOMERS CUP
Empire and AOC have merged. This means they can join this battle..........they are 2 seasoned top clans and I see them winning this...
DO WE STAY IN ?
Post any comments here: viewtopic.php?f=572&t=188102&p=4132308#p4132308

we have not recived any pms from any member of aka wishing to take part. and i hope this awnsers your question about if we have asked all clan members.

[Chariot of Fire]

[shoop76]

Maybe in future years this should just be open to the top 32 clans with the top 8 seeded.

Clans have all year, through different events and head to head wars to improve their rankings.

[greenoaks]

Maybe in future years this should just be open to the top 32 clans with the top 8 seeded.

Clans have all year, through different events and head to head wars to improve their rankings.

i like this suggestion

[Chariot of Fire]

I was thinking the same thing shoop. Do away with all the play-in and bye hullabaloo and just make it an Open tournament to the top 32 clans. I wouldn't even bother with seeding, but I would place the 4 semi-finalists of the previous cup in different quadrants of the draw so they couldn't meet again until later in the tourney. It would be pretty mundane to play a clan in a final and then meet them again in R1 of the next cup edition, i.e. back-to-back challenges. Such a scenario should be avoided.

p.s. I play golf, but you don't see me playing in The Masters right now. That's because they'e invited the Top 93 in the world. Championship tournaments work this way.