Jihad in Boston: Death Penalty for Bomber?

[Phatscotty]

Boston Bombing Hero Who Identified Suspect Resorts To Online Fundraising To Pay His Medical Bills (UPDATED)

In the aftermath of the Boston Marathon bombings on Monday, Jeff Bauman’s image was seared into the American consciousness. An extremely graphic photo of Bauman being escorted in a wheelchair with most of his legs blown off quickly went viral. Bauman’s stock rose even further after reports surfaced that he had looked into the eyes of one of the bombing suspects minutes before the explosion, and that the moment he awoke from emergency care, he gave law enforcement critical information that substantially narrowed their field of suspects. But while police continue to scour the streets for at-large suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the 27-year-old Bauman is scouring the internet for donations to help pay for his outsized medical bills.

Bauman’s friends created the page “Bucks For Bauman!” on the gofundme.com crowdfunding service. The money raised through donations to the site are meant to help Jeff and his family pay the exorbitant costs of his surgeries, ongoing medical care, and physical therapy. Since Tuesday, when the site was launched, Americans from across the country have poured in $158,294 in donations — over half of the overall $300,000 goal.

Bauman has been fortunate enough to receive an impressive number of donations to help him pay his bills, and his uncle plans to buy him his first pair of prosthetic legs. But many other victims in the Boston bombings may not be as fortunate. The cost of treating the bombing survivors’ injuries is expected to exceed $9 million. The out-of-pocket costs associated with that treatment could bury many of the victims financially, even if they do have insurance — unless hospitals, insurers, and charitable foundations swoop in to help, as they did after the mass shooting in Aurora, Colorado.

Obviously Bauman is lying or this is a scam. Obamacare is now in place and, even if it wasn't, Massachusetts has had Romneycare - on which Obamacare is modeled - for awhile.

In keeping with my previous pledge not to criticize Obama until May if Hagel was approved, I hereby denounce Bauman as a sniveling Tea Partier or Naderite who is simply trying to embarass Obama.

[Phatscotty]

I don't know how terrorism is defined in the U.S. Code, but if the suspect committed all the crimes in Massachusetts, built the bombs in Massachusetts, sourced the parts in Massachusetts, didn't attack a federal facility, didn't consult with others outside Massachusetts and was already living in Massachusetts for other reasons, how exactly could they try this in federal court instead of in the Commonwealth?

I don't rule out the federal government comin in dick swingin taking over the case, if for any reason, "just cuz it's big"

Actually, there still might be a tie between that guy that got deported back to Saudi Arabia and "links to terrorism"....but was not charged. I think that was the first guy they announced they had, then said they didn't have him. The media won't touch it

[nietzsche]

[saxitoxin]

I don't know how terrorism is defined in the U.S. Code, but if the suspect committed all the crimes in Massachusetts, built the bombs in Massachusetts, sourced the parts in Massachusetts, didn't attack a federal facility, didn't consult with others outside Massachusetts and was already living in Massachusetts for other reasons, how exactly could they try this in federal court instead of in the Commonwealth?

Oh, the AP says for using a "Weapon of Mass Destruction." - http://www.ydr.com/ci_23071438/boston-m ... eavy-guard

Not that it's ever stopped me before, but - at the risk of armchair lawyering - I still don't understand how this would qualify under these conditions ...

A person who, without lawful authority, uses, threatens, or attempts or conspires to use, a weapon of mass destruction—

(1) against a national of the United States while such national is outside of the United States;

(2) against any person or property within the United States, and

(A) the mail or any facility of interstate or foreign commerce is used in furtherance of the offense;
(B) such property is used in interstate or foreign commerce or in an activity that affects interstate or foreign commerce;
(C) any perpetrator travels in or causes another to travel in interstate or foreign commerce in furtherance of the offense; or
(D) the offense, or the results of the offense, affect interstate or foreign commerce, or, in the case of a threat, attempt, or conspiracy, would have affected interstate or foreign commerce;

(3) against any property that is owned, leased or used by the United States or by any department or agency of the United States, whether the property is within or outside of the United States; or

(4) against any property within the United States that is owned, leased, or used by a foreign government,

shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life, and if death results, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332a

[Phatscotty]

The election will play in this too, as I bet whatever happens, the verdict will come about 3 months before the election in 2014

[DoomYoshi]

Wow, I always thought jimboston was named Boss and was from Jamestown.mthis thread has been an eye-opener.

[BigBallinStalin]

Ah, an example of free markets. Thanks, JB.

of course, it's something that needs to be "resorted to" per the title...

I'm not seeing the relevance here.

[BigBallinStalin]

I don't know how terrorism is defined in the U.S. Code, but if the suspect committed all the crimes in Massachusetts, built the bombs in Massachusetts, sourced the parts in Massachusetts, didn't attack a federal facility, didn't consult with others outside Massachusetts and was already living in Massachusetts for other reasons, how exactly could they try this in federal court instead of in the Commonwealth?

Because it's a terrorist act, and that's the business of the FBI.


If you target innocent civilians for a political goal, then it's terrorism. (that's the narrow definition). The US State Dept, DoD, and FBI have different yet broader definitions of terrorism--which include targeting government facilities and personnel--as well as particular military personnel (e.g. supply/logistics soldiers, off-duty soldiers, etc.). For the FBI, if you commit a particular crime (e.g. sabotage for environmental reasons), then that's ecoterrorism, which is terrorism.

If the FBI can convict people via the anti-ecoterrorism laws, then they can surely bring the American-Chechen kid to the federal courts.

BUT, sometimes they don't prosecute the perpetrators with anti-(eco)terrorism laws. Instead, they pin them with lesser crimes of which they're more certain will succeed (e.g. arson, attempted murder, etc.). So, it's up to the details of their investigation, and their perceived risk of not getting a conviction to stick.

[Night Strike]

Ah, an example of free markets. Thanks, JB.

of course, it's something that needs to be "resorted to" per the title...

I'm not seeing the relevance here.

"Resorted to" implies the government should have been providing the care or the hospital/insurance should have paid for it all.

[Phatscotty]

Ah, an example of free markets. Thanks, JB.

of course, it's something that needs to be "resorted to" per the title...

I'm not seeing the relevance here.

"Resorted to" implies the government should have been providing the care or the hospital/insurance should have paid for it all.

thanks Strike! I was just gonna let it go...but yeah the title of JB's post about the bombing victim was along the lines of "bombing victims resorts to online donations/charity (free markets)" Resorts to suggests "something is wrong here"

I guess the implication, as I see it, is that this person should be fully taken care of no matter what, presumably by the state, and I would further speculate this is a spring board to a larger-overall fund with the built in sympathy the victims are forced to resort to the free market. Most likely a marketing strat or an IMC

[Metsfanmax]

I don't know how terrorism is defined in the U.S. Code, but if the suspect committed all the crimes in Massachusetts, built the bombs in Massachusetts, sourced the parts in Massachusetts, didn't attack a federal facility, didn't consult with others outside Massachusetts and was already living in Massachusetts for other reasons, how exactly could they try this in federal court instead of in the Commonwealth?

Because it's a terrorist act, and that's the business of the FBI.


If you target innocent civilians for a political goal, then it's terrorism. (that's the narrow definition). The US State Dept, DoD, and FBI have different yet broader definitions of terrorism--which include targeting government facilities and personnel--as well as particular military personnel (e.g. supply/logistics soldiers, off-duty soldiers, etc.). For the FBI, if you commit a particular crime (e.g. sabotage for environmental reasons), then that's ecoterrorism, which is terrorism.

If the FBI can convict people via the anti-ecoterrorism laws, then they can surely bring the American-Chechen kid to the federal courts.

BUT, sometimes they don't prosecute the perpetrators with anti-(eco)terrorism laws. Instead, they pin them with lesser crimes of which they're more certain will succeed (e.g. arson, attempted murder, etc.). So, it's up to the details of their investigation, and their perceived risk of not getting a conviction to stick.

Yes, but there seems to be a few carts before horses here. The FBI got involved well before anyone could have known whether this was a case of "targeting innocent civilians for a political goal." Evidently setting off an explosion in a public area is enough to count? I too am confused as to how this could be a federal case, although not terribly surprised that he's currently in federal custody.

[BigBallinStalin]

I don't know how terrorism is defined in the U.S. Code, but if the suspect committed all the crimes in Massachusetts, built the bombs in Massachusetts, sourced the parts in Massachusetts, didn't attack a federal facility, didn't consult with others outside Massachusetts and was already living in Massachusetts for other reasons, how exactly could they try this in federal court instead of in the Commonwealth?

Because it's a terrorist act, and that's the business of the FBI.


If you target innocent civilians for a political goal, then it's terrorism. (that's the narrow definition). The US State Dept, DoD, and FBI have different yet broader definitions of terrorism--which include targeting government facilities and personnel--as well as particular military personnel (e.g. supply/logistics soldiers, off-duty soldiers, etc.). For the FBI, if you commit a particular crime (e.g. sabotage for environmental reasons), then that's ecoterrorism, which is terrorism.

If the FBI can convict people via the anti-ecoterrorism laws, then they can surely bring the American-Chechen kid to the federal courts.

BUT, sometimes they don't prosecute the perpetrators with anti-(eco)terrorism laws. Instead, they pin them with lesser crimes of which they're more certain will succeed (e.g. arson, attempted murder, etc.). So, it's up to the details of their investigation, and their perceived risk of not getting a conviction to stick.

Yes, but there seems to be a few carts before horses here. The FBI got involved well before anyone could have known whether this was a case of "targeting innocent civilians for a political goal." Evidently setting off an explosion in a public area is enough to count? I too am confused as to how this could be a federal case, although not terribly surprised that he's currently in federal custody.

The FBI and the federal government aren't that picky, and the FBI have the capital and experience with this situations. I wouldn't want some dumbass city cops figuring out what a pressure cooker is. (Also, note: "terrorism" is defined very broadly, so even if the perpetrator doesn't state a political goal, his having a beard, being a radical Islamic believer, etc. is probably enough----however, if it isn't, then they'll charge him with something else to get the same outcome).

That's just how this works. Bomb kills civilians? Federal government (via FBI) get involved. (They may even label the Chechen as an international terrorist, thus bringing it within the federal government's scope--but that would be a more 'after-the-fact' justification).

[Phatscotty]

Word is he's being held as an enemy combatant...

an interesting video

[jimboston]

I don't know how terrorism is defined in the U.S. Code, but if the suspect committed all the crimes in Massachusetts, built the bombs in Massachusetts, sourced the parts in Massachusetts, didn't attack a federal facility, didn't consult with others outside Massachusetts and was already living in Massachusetts for other reasons, how exactly could they try this in federal court instead of in the Commonwealth?

That's how.

[jimboston]

I don't know how terrorism is defined in the U.S. Code, but if the suspect committed all the crimes in Massachusetts, built the bombs in Massachusetts, sourced the parts in Massachusetts, didn't attack a federal facility, didn't consult with others outside Massachusetts and was already living in Massachusetts for other reasons, how exactly could they try this in federal court instead of in the Commonwealth?

I don't rule out the federal government comin in dick swingin taking over the case, if for any reason, "just cuz it's big"

Actually, there still might be a tie between that guy that got deported back to Saudi Arabia and "links to terrorism"....but was not charged. I think that was the first guy they announced they had, then said they didn't have him. The media won't touch it

If they got material help or were involved in a conspiracy with anyone outside the State it would/could be a Federal case.

If they transported bomb-making equipment across State lines it could be a Federal case.

Saxi is just being Saxi.

[jimboston]

Wow, I always thought jimboston was named Boss and was from Jamestown.mthis thread has been an eye-opener.

yawn

[2dimes]

Good to see you here James. How's the mood among your friends and family?

[jimboston]

Good to see you here James. How's the mood among your friends and family?

People are relieved now.

Earlier in the week people really just couldn't believe it.
All you heard was "this is crazy".

I don't know anyone personally who was injured... I know several people who know people, but nothing has impacted me directly.

I have family in Watertown... I don't think they were overly "scared" on Friday.
They certainly got little-to-no sleep... and really were "locked-down" on Friday... but everyone seemed OK.

I have some "friends" on the local PD... not really current friends that I hang out with now, more like people I went ti High School with and grew up with. So I haven't talked to any of them since Friday. I can imagine they are happy.

It's certainly a big news story... but day-to-day people have already started to move-on.

[Phatscotty]

Lessons from Boston and Chechnya

We cannot bring back the stolen lives. We cannot bring back the lost limbs or the lost hearing. And we cannot mitigate the infinite grief of the victims' loved ones.

But there is something we can and must do: We must learn all the lessons we can.

Here are some:

1. The gulf between the decent and the indecent

Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the older brother, once told an interviewer before a Golden Gloves boxing competition: "I don't have a single American friend. I don't understand them."

The reason Tsarnaev didn't understand Americans was not primarily cultural. Tsarnaev came to America when he was 14 or 15, an age when the vast majority of immigrants to America have assimilated quite successfully.

Rather, the reason was that the indecent don't understand the decent, just as the decent don't understand the indecent.

One of the greatest insights I learned as a young man came from reading Viktor Frankl's seminal work, "Man's Search for Meaning." Frankl was a Jewish psychoanalyst who survived Auschwitz, where nearly every member of his family, including his wife, was murdered. His conclusion: "There are two races of men in this world but only these two. The race of the decent man and the race of the indecent man."

Those "races" do not understand one another. But more important than understanding the indecent is overpowering and, when necessary, destroying the indecent.

2. Any religion or ideology that is above good and evil produces enormous evil.

For tens of millions of Muslims today, Islam is beyond good and evil: The infidel may be decent, but that is of no importance to the radical Islamist. For example, to become a "more religious" Muslim, Tamerlan Tsarnaev gave up boxing, marijuana, tobacco and even not wearing a shirt in the presence of females. Tsarnaev believed Islam forbade those things -- none of which is an evil. But when it came to the greatest evil -- murder (of non-Muslims) -- his religion was not only silent, it was enthusiastically supportive.

Likewise, communists in the Soviet Union, China and elsewhere -- and their many supporters in the West -- raised the creation of egalitarian society and industrialization above good and evil. And Nazism elevated race above good and evil. The environmentalists who oppose vitamin A-injected rice in the Third World place their agenda above good and evil.

Unfortunately, most religious and secular ideologues find preoccupation with human decency boring. The greatest moral idea in history, ethical monotheism, doesn't excite most people.

3. A victimhood identity produces cruelty.

The Tsarnaev brothers' primary self-perception was that of being Chechen victims, and that plus their religious convictions allowed them to blow up men, women and children with a perfectly clear conscience. Even when victimhood status is objectively true -- which it was not for these brothers, who were among the spectacularly fortunate few to be able to live in freedom and with unlimited opportunities -- nothing provides people with as good a reason to commit atrocities as does a victim mentality.

4. Happiness is a moral issue.

Happiness is not an emotional state so much as it is a moral imperative. In general, those who act happy make the world better and those who act unhappy make it worse. This is equally true in the micro and macro realms. It is not surprising, therefore, that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was described by a cousin, Zaur Tsarnaev, in this way: "He was never happy, never cheering, never smiling."

5. Boys will be bad men if they had no good men.

It is apparent that the younger brother Dzhokhar was deeply influenced by his brother, Tamerlan, who was seven years older. All of us who have an older brother, especially with a large age gap, know that he has a god-like status in the eyes of a young boy.

If good men do not inspire boys, bad men will. Without good older men in boys' lives, those boys are likely to grow up and do bad things. See our inner cities for further confirmation.

6. Universities and the left generally continue to deny any link between Muslim terrorists and their Muslim beliefs.

Just as in previous acts of Islamist terror, the left in general, and university professors in particular, continue to argue that it is wrong -- actually bigoted -- to associate these terrorists' religious beliefs with their terrorism.

Michael Eric Dyson, Georgetown professor of sociology: "So you take one part of the element, that he's Muslim. But he also might have listened to classical music. He might have had some Lil Wayne."

MSNBC host Melissa Harris- Perry: "I keep wondering is it possible that there would ever be a discussion like, 'This is because of Ben Affleck and the connection between Boston and movies about violence?' And of course, the answer is no. ... Our very sense of connection to them is this framed-up notion of, like, Islam making them something that is non-normal."

Zaheer Ali -- Harvard graduate, recipient of Columbia University's Merit Scholars Graduate Fellowship, recipient of the Social Science Research Council's Mellon Mays Pre-Doctoral Research Grant -- on MSNBC: "It isn't Muslim that is a common thing here, it's people who are alienated."

Professor Brian Levin -- director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino (formerly associate director of the Southern Poverty Law Center) -- to Bill Maher:

"Look, it's not like people who are Muslim who do wacky things have a monopoly on it. We have hypocrites across faiths, Jewish, Christian who say they're out for God and end up doing not so nice things."

Bill Maher's response: "That's liberal bullshit."

And that's what our children are routinely taught.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 18082.html

[2dimes]

What do you make of this?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/tarek-fata ... 38046.html

[Phatscotty]

What do you make of this?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/tarek-fata ... 38046.html

tomorrow

[b.k. barunt]

What do you make of this?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/tarek-fata ... 38046.html

Islam is making fools of the American (and now Canadian) people, or rather helping them broadcast their ignorance. Seems to be the only thing that Bush and Obama worked together on.


Honibaz

[saxitoxin]

Just as in previous acts of Islamist terror, the left in general, and university professors in particular, continue to argue that it is wrong -- actually bigoted -- to associate these terrorists' religious beliefs with their terrorism.

Today, April 24, 2013, the U.S. FBI only has one active, unsolved, terrorist bombing investigation: the murder of Alex Odeh, an Arab Christian, in Orange County. The night before the attack, Odeh had been in an argument on Nightline with Irv Rubin, the Supreme Commander of the terrorist group "Jewish Defense League." A $1 million reward remains unclaimed for the capture of the JDL bombers, whose attack also permanently injured several innocent American bystanders, including an OC Sheriff's deputy. The FBI's primary suspects fled to the terrorist stronghold of Israel before they could be questioned and the Israeli regime has refused cooperation with U.S. law enforcement.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/ ... chel-odeh/

[Haggis_McMutton]

In the fight against the "malaria" of this jihadism, Obama and the West have been successful in killing many of the top "mosquitoes" including OBL, but their reluctance to drain the swamps for fear of offending the swamp keepers -- Pakistan and Saudi Arabia -- has ensured every jihadi terrorist killed leaves behind enough larvae to harvest millions more.

When someone starts using metaphors that equate humans with cockroaches/larvae/etc it's probably time to stop taking them seriously. Just a short step from there to the conclusion that we must "exterminate the infestation".

[b.k. barunt]

I equate any human who casually but purposely takes innocent civilian human lives with cockroaches/larvae/etc. - with apologies to the cockroaches/larvae/etc. This of course would include most of our presidents. Personally i'd like to see the infestation terminated, but i wouldn't put such power in the hands of the U.S. government for obvious reasons.


Honibaz