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[Abandoned] War of the Roses

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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:14 pm

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1. All ships in the west have the same name - W1 - is this intentional?

(FIXED)

2. the black text on brown legend is hard to read - are you able to place some lighter layer behind it and offset it all, or
change the colour of the font, or place an outer glow around the text foir more visibility.

(Changed to white)

3. because of the black place names on dark blue sea it is difficult to read some names which cross from sea onto land or vice versa.
this can be fixed with an outer glow around text, or by extending the light blue coastline out to under those names and make this relatively even all around.

(Adjusted words so not in water or added light blue behind them)

4. you seem to have victory conditions in three places
a. the one under the title
b. control London and 4 churches for 1 turn you win.
c. beside the title
- if the same, they should be in one place so as to not confuse players; this will also reduce the real estate these are taking up and perhaps allow more "eye space" in the legend to read it more comfortably - think about the overall design of you legend.

(I removed the duplicate instructions about victory condition)

5. Looking at the southern region around London, there is a big advantage to anyone gaining the churches in the south, if the northern regions don't have easy access to London.
if someone gains Carlisle, Durham, York and Chester, and gets wiped out in the south they have a battle that might take some time to win while their opponent continues to fortify towards the churches and London in the south - i don't know if i am not understand this properly, but the southern advantage seems great. I know there are sea routes in the east.
If i am correct, would you consider some "rider" paths from the north to London that provide that quick access.

(Actually even the north area can all most attack London directly by using the ships in the water. London is a port, and because of this all areas pretty much have quick access to it.)

5. Caernaron? - Caernarvon or Caernarfon - not sure what you want to use, but i think a small typo perhaps.
Covertry? - Coventry perhaps
Devor - Dover perhaps?


(Fixed Spelling)

6. also do you have font kerning in your software to spread the text letters evenly so that example Conventry does not appear as 3 sets of letter in one word.
Some fonts do this and need adjusting.
Newcastle looks perfect.


(Think this issue was fixed when I fixed the spelling - do you still see an issue?)


7. for later on, when graphics stage arises, think about some different kinds of trees - simply for variety - the amount you have now seem fine but they are all the same.

(I'll look into this, but I'm using pine trees and most pine forests really only have pine trees in them.)

8. the minimap colours could do with some love or perhaps different treatment - not sure what is going on there with the whiter sections at the bottom of each region

(I changed the colors of the minimap and map them solid no more white bottoms)

9. is Stokestay castle part of the welsh region (brown) or mid region (purple) - from the legend it seems it should be part of wales. Seems unfair there is no road from Stokestay to Denbigh.

(Purple, Yellow and Brown sections have 10 areas each - but as you see the Brown section gives more of a Bonus, this is because it is seperated this way and is harder to control. So I balanced out this issue by making the Brown areas worth more.)



Any more comments, or suggestions?
Last edited by Aleena on Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby waauw on Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:04 am

I don't like the sea, it's too purple and the transition to the light blue coastline doesn't fit.
Also, the name Caernarvon passes infront of a tower
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:23 am

Ok, I adjusted the Castle so the text does not cross over now.

I was trying to give an illusion in the water like this:
Click image to enlarge.
image


As you see the light blue water stands apart from the darker waters of the ocean, it does not just blend out...
But since you do not feel like it fits, I went ahead and blended it a bit.

I also think it's much more Blue then purple from before - so maybe it's just you don't like the royal blue and want a lighter blue - so I lightened it up some to also help blend with the island a bit -I do not want a perfect blend - for most maps now a days are placing outlines around the coastal areas to give a little detail, (they usually do it in like a black outline effect) I want to go a step further and make it actual coastal waters instead of just an outline..

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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:49 pm

Aleena wrote:...
(Think this issue was fixed when I fixed the spelling - do you still see an issue?)
...
Any more comments, or suggestions?


Vast improvement, nice work. :) but some further suggestions

1. now that you have the lighter blue sea, you can move the icons & army holders around on the coastline so that names sit out at sea. there is nothing to keep those coastal names on the land - this will give you more space on land

2. the kerning appears not right on Whitby, Alnwick, Beaumaris, Preston

3. Berwich? -> Berwick
Norwick? -> Norwich

3. is Alnwick in the right place? because on your larger reference map it is south of Berwick on the east coast of Northumberland, and where you have it now seems to be Appleby

4. Should not Raby Castle be on the north side of the River Tees - perhaps you need to examine where the River Tees runs on your map.

5. Compton is not in the right place, same with Exeter - should be on the south coast.

6. you'll need to swap the port symbol and Beaumaris army holder so that armies don't run over Caervarvon word.

7. what is that yellow/red shield on Maidstone. on your ref map that shield is south-east of London on Leeds, and indeed Mainstone is south-east of London, where you Canterbury, and Canterbury should be closer to Dover. Perhaps you mean that to be Farnham
I'm sorry, i recognise the need for creativity in some aspect of the map, but you simply cannot move things around this much so as to create incorrect historical accuracy. There needs to be correct placement of historical locations.

8. there is now space on the right side of your map to move the entire land sections over a fraction. from this movement, you'll be able to widen the legend so that the "each"s near the shields have brown legend under them and not sea.

9. you need to organise the legend so that all the references to churches is im one place, and all the references ports is similarly placed. the win conditions probably needs to go at the top of the legend where it is easily seen.

Keep up the good work. you'll get there. ;)
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:21 pm

The color of the shore water now blends into the ocean - I do not think it gives the feel like that island picture I showed above..

Decided to make the ocean darker yet again, expand the coast waters out more - add whitewash and make the white wash look like it is being pulled out to sea and pushed into land...

What do you think of this water?

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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:29 pm

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This is an alternative placement of the areas.

Please Let me know if you like where the areas are in the map above better or in the map below better.
Above the areas are about 60% accurate to what I'm using as my main guide and below they are 85% accurate.
(Will not be able to get any more accurate then what I have below... But even with this accuracy - the areas are bunched up in places where as above they are spread out... But I'll let you all be the judge of which layout you like better...

This link is what I'm basing all of the area placement by: (focusing on churches and shields)
http://brummbar.com/brummbar/board_game ... er_Map.pdf

I do now that the either map still have a few issues such as Exeter in the bottom map is not a port but a church and Penzance is not yellow but brown... But what I need to know right now is should I fix the map above and move forward - of fix the map below and move forward... Which map has better placement or areas as far as game play goes - in your all opinion?


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Last edited by Aleena on Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:46 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:34 pm

I don't have any specific comments right now -- just wanted to say that you've done an awesome job transforming this from an MS Paint idea into a map I'd love to try!
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:11 am

Ty Metsfanmax, I hope I'll be able to get out of draft and through this stamping process so that you could play it..

I do not like wasting time, and since I had the options for these layouts up all day and no one said anything - I decided to move forward with the new layout...

Below is the completed version of the new layout - many changes made - Please would love your feed back, comments, suggestions...

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Last edited by Aleena on Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby rdsrds2120 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:50 pm

One thing I notice is that it's hard to tell the bonus sections apart. Perhaps instead of coloring in the icons, you could make them uniform, a tad smaller, and use that extra room to add colored glows to territory names? This would also make the names easier to see (especially ones that span over multiple colors, such as Carisbrooke, Calais, Beaumaris, etc).

BMO
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:56 pm

Ok, I added a green glow behind the Names of the Green Areas... (The one's in the northern part of the map)

What do you all think? If you like I'll do it through out - but I think I did this before - and players didn't like it because it takes a lot away from the map since their are so many long names all over the map.

But if you like it - I can add it - just need the word....

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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby waauw on Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:28 am

Aleena wrote:Ok, I added a green glow behind the Names of the Green Areas... (The one's in the northern part of the map)

What do you all think? If you like I'll do it through out - but I think I did this before - and players didn't like it because it takes a lot away from the map since their are so many long names all over the map.

But if you like it - I can add it - just need the word....

Click image to enlarge.
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These namebackgrounds look a lot better then the last ones.
Though I disagree with rds. Imo it was already clear what belonged to what bonuszone.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:52 am

If it is clear with-out placing the background color glow behind the words then I prefer to go with out... The less we clutter the map the better in my opinion...

So, I'm at a waiting game again - for either more players to say add the back ground glow behind names, other suggestions/comments, or a stamp so I can try to focus my attention more at game play then graphics..
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby waauw on Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:01 am

Aleena wrote:If it is clear with-out placing the background color glow behind the words then I prefer to go with out... The less we clutter the map the better in my opinion...

So, I'm at a waiting game again - for either more players to say add the back ground glow behind names, other suggestions/comments, or a stamp so I can try to focus my attention more at game play then graphics..


you could always maybe just try out a glow, as in a coloured shadow behind the letters
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:21 am

will do
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Dukasaur on Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:49 pm

I'm wondering if there can be just a very light glow? Perhaps with just 25% saturation or something?
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Bruceswar on Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:39 am

Few quick points. Tone down that water you have around the edges of the land. Maybe make it slightly smaller? Also I agree... Try some glow on the words.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:27 pm

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Sorry it took so long - I to not have a text editor - so I had to draw and outline glow all the text by hand...

Look as if Bruce wants me to play with the water again - so maybe in the next day or two, I'll adjust the water a little...
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:57 am

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I made the coastal waters not soo bold...
and played with the water a bit...

What you all think now?
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:41 am

The purple text is hard to read.... maybe try a lighter purple? Also your bonus values are way high.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:18 pm

This reminds me of the old days.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:47 pm

Doom, is that good or bad?
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby cairnswk on Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:20 pm

Aleena. would it be a good thing to change the gameplay a little...
and include the three main woman involved in this
Elisabeth Woodville
Margaret Beaufort
Anne Neville
plus the houses of Lancaster, York and Tudor?
Have these as "buildings"
Just a suggestion :)
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:12 pm

Ty for the suggestion cairnswk...

I'll try to see what I can do - with adding those when I get to the GamePlay Stamp stage....
Right now, I'm struggling just to achieve completion of the basic DRAFT stage....

This DRAFT stage is so hard to pass - I can just imagine how hard GAME PLAY stage and even GRAPHIC stage will be....
Since it appears it takes a lot of graphic work just to complete DRAFT stage, - I can just assume the GRAPHIC stage is then going to be a killer - for Based on it's name - that is the stage where this sight will really focus on the graphics, as if they are not all ready.....
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Aleena on Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:58 pm

Waited all most a full month for any and all suggestions of what should be done to fix this map, only suggestion I received was that the purple outline around some text maybe should be lighter....

Ok... I made it lighter.... Here's what it looks like now....

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Last edited by Aleena on Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War Of The Roses

Postby Mishalex on Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:45 am

Hi Aleena, i'd just discover this map, so i'm just going to give you my opinion:
First thing is that i have some difficulties to read and "print" the map, and as i like simple map or really lisible one, i'm a bit confuse here... For example, is church part of the land bonuse? 'cause, if holding a church leads to a less 2, it's gonna be hard to take the bonus.
What's the idea with the ship? Are they autodeploy? Are they neutral at start?
I'm sorry but i'm not a huge fan of the graphic, but there are pleany of comics map such as Conquer (looks like PacMan) so players should like it ! Hope you'll find an end to this ! )
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