Air Traffic Safety. Are you really Safer in a plane?

[Viceroy63]

http://money.msn.com/money-video/defaul ... elevancy#2

MSN Reported yesterday about how 'air safety' is much better today due to the stronger seats and easy to open doors then in the past. (The Emergency Exits are so easy to open, that they practically open up by themselves. lol.) They forgot to mention that they do not allow fat or old people to sit next the the emergency exits. When was the last time you saw a fat person potentially blocking the exit for everyone else? Obvious discrimination as their lives are not worth as much as everyone else. But that is for another thread.

This thread is about Why it is being emphasized that air safety is up amidst continual crashes all the time in the first place, and what prompted that topic discussion...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR67XIUBvMg

[AndyDufresne]

Do you trust anything with science-based evidence, viceroy?


--Andy

[crispybits]

Plane carrying over 300 people crashes and is engulfed in fire, only 2 people die. Considering the other potential outcomes I'd say the safety measures in place for the immediate aftermath of incidents like these did a fairly decent job.

[Army of GOD]

Every time I fly in a plane, I know how safe it is, but I always fully expect it to explode during take off.

[Nobunaga]

Many millions fly every day. 99.999% (just made that number up, but I'm sure it's close) arrive safely where they're going.

My personal opinion is that a passenger in a plane has zero control over anything - just along for the ride. This adds to the fear factor. Driving one's own car, one is in control of one's own vehicle - at least for me it feels safer... though all the idiots on the highway greatly increase the risk of my dying.

[AndyDufresne]

Many millions fly every day. 99.999% (just made that number up, but I'm sure it's close) arrive safely where they're going.

My personal opinion is that a passenger in a plane has zero control over anything - just along for the ride. This adds to the fear factor. Driving one's own car, one is in control of one's own vehicle - at least for me it feels safer... though all the idiots on the highway greatly increase the risk of my dying.

I've made that same sort of comparison...when someone asked about CC Dice once!

Subject: Why do the dice suck so bad?

I wonder if it this all can be boiled down to the 'Airplane vs Motorcar' analogy. Opinion Polls and studies have found that though you are more likely to be fatally injured in a Motorcar accident, that more people are still wary of Airplane flying. It has usually been described that because the driver of a Motorcar has a 'direct communication' link with the vehicle (I.E. they can actually manipulate the outcomes based on their physical inputs), that this direct communication linkage gives them more of a feeling of control/responsibility.

Thus, if you do get into an accident, you can blame your car, but more often than not it was driver error that either caused the accident or made it worse. Airplane flying---because it lacks that 'direct communication' link since passengers have no control over the outcomes of any situation a pilot may encounter---makes those passengers feel less safe for simply 'going along for the ride.'

So to wander back to Conquer Club, digital rolling probably feels more like a passenger 'going along for the ride,' while physical rolling (and thus how many believe it is better/more random) probably feels more like driving a Motorcar---if you get bad rolls, you can really only blame your physical self.

--Andy

[oVo]

If you live in the United States there are better odds of
being struck and killed by a drunk driver than crashing
in a commercial airplane.

Just to be safe you should probably park your car and walk.

[Frigidus]

It's widely known that traveling by plane is safer than traveling by car. That said, am I alone in really wanting to hear Viceroy's opinion on this?

[TA1LGUNN3R]

A+ on another great thread, Viceroy.

They forgot to mention that they do not allow fat or old people to sit next the the emergency exits. When was the last time you saw a fat person potentially blocking the exit for everyone else? Obvious discrimination as their lives are not worth as much as everyone else.

They don't let fatties or antiques sit next to the emergency exits because they'll block the escape route. This is not unreasonable.

-TG

[rishaed]

Its the same reason that you wouldn't want a four year old next to the emergency exit. A. You have to be able to follow instructions. B. you have to be physically able to follow those instructions.

[Viceroy63]

Four pilots in the cockpit and one of them is like a master pilot (Check Captain), a teacher/instructor of pilots, and the plane still crashes due to human error. What more needs be said?

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex

[Woodruff]

Four pilots in the cockpit and one of them is like a master pilot (Check Captain), a teacher/instructor of pilots, and the plane still crashes due to human error. What more needs be said?

You mean humans are humans and not infallable? You mean to tell me that equipment can fail? <gasp>

[AndyDufresne]

What more needs be said?

A question for the ages.


--Andy

[2dimes]

I'm not going to get too far into this but, there is a growing problem with automating airplanes to hire less expensive pilots, that don't fly the plane enough to continue to be competent, if they were in the first place.

The captain going down is strictly for boats.

[AndyDufresne]

I'm not going to get too far into this but, there is a growing problem with automating airplanes to hire less expensive pilots, that don't fly the plane enough to continue to be competent, if they were in the first place.

The captain going down is strictly for boats.

2dimes, you are a pilot, aren't you? Or you've had flight experience, if I recall from the Longest Thread, Thread. Bless us with more of your wisdom, since you may actually know some things!


--Andy

[Dukasaur]

[2dimes]

The basics are. Guys like me fly little planes no auto pilot. In Canada and the US&A you need to do this to even get a license or certificate. As you get to larger more complex aircraft they need more things done. In the old days you might have two pilots a navigator and an engineer. All those guys made a fair wage, that is part of why it was so expensive to fly then.

The manufactures started making systems automated. A big one in the 1990s being the US military's satellite navigation system. Global positioning.

That's right folks the mean old US military complex is responsible for your android phone being able to tell you where you are anywhere in the world within feet.

You could in theory fly an A-380 by yourself. The main reasons they continue to have two guys is in case one croaks and because on occasion one will need to talk on the radio while the other monitors or operates systems.

Yes planes have auto land also. Many airports don't have systems certified for that though. A hard landing might actually have been automated. The smoothest landings you've experienced were performed by a person. Nearly all large planes can fly the approach until the plane is set up to land at any airport, leaving the final touchdown to a person because it is so complex that is still cost effective.

Anyone in Europe probably knows about Ryan Air. The model for learning to be an airline pilot outside of North America is to become a company cadet. This is so you owe the company money instead of the bank for your training.

In North America you typically go to flight school get trained then get progressively better jobs until you are hopefully out of debt and at a job you love. The benefit being you have flown a lot before you get in the automation situation. That problem being you feel valuable and don't want to fly for low wages anymore.

Either way you only fly some landings and take offs per flight. Most of the time computers fly and you are there to look for anomalies. A few commercial pilots on a forum I go to have wrote that, SFO is not only busy but they will set you up for a difficult approach over water which can be deceiving and many are suggesting the pilot was embarrassed to admit he was in over his head.

So much for, "I don't want to get too far into this..."

[DoomYoshi]

Yes planes have auto land also. Many airports don't have systems certified for that though. A hard landing might actually have been automated. The smoothest landings you've experienced were performed by a person. Nearly all large planes can fly the approach until the plane is set up to land at any airport, leaving the final touchdown to a person because it is so complex that is still cost effective.

Last I checked, only 2 runways in Canada were Cat III approved. 6L at Pearson and one over at Vancouver.

[2dimes]

Yes.

[DoomYoshi]

OMG! I just found a video that proves planes aren't safe at all:

[Lootifer]

I wonder if whay Viceroy suffers from has a name?

Auto-delusion disorder?

[tzor]

This thread is about Why it is being emphasized that air safety is up amidst continual crashes all the time in the first place, and what prompted that topic discussion...

First of all, I object to the poll. Everyone knows that takeoffs and landings are the highest chances an accident will occur, not when you are a mile up in the sky.

Second of all, let's look at the recent case of pilot error; two people died. How many people die in bus crashes? How many people die in train crashes? How many people die in car crashes?

How many people get shot in Chicago ... oh wait, let me Google that ...

The Windy City reached a grim milestone over the long Fourth of July weekend as the city's homicide rate surpassed 200.

The city logged its 200th homicide of the year on Saturday when a 24-year-old man was shot to death in the 1000 block of West Maxwell Street on the Near West Side, according to RedEye Chicago.

On Saturday alone, at least seven people were injured in a single drive-by shooting that left a 48-year-old man dead. The Sun-Times reports police believe the 6 p.m. shooting in Lawndale was gang-related and connected to an earlier attack on July 4.

And you are worried because of one foreign airline? Where the pilot crashed the plane at landing and only two people died? We are not taking Hindenburg or Titanic here.

So, yes, I feel very safe in a plane.

[notyou2]

Four pilots in the cockpit and one of them is like a master pilot (Check Captain), a teacher/instructor of pilots, and the plane still crashes due to human error. What more needs be said?

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex

Insha allah