Update 9/5/13

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Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby greenoaks on Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:01 am

patrickaa317 wrote:Definitely not a fan of this idea. A lot of people would play games for 1 point. A lot of farming would be done against the noobs that think they can win 50 points, etc. All I see is potential for abuse and people working the system on this.

that's the way i see it too.
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Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby Shannon Apple on Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:42 am

Not sure if that's what Lindax meant. If something like that was set up, the "ante" should be 20 points and 20 points only. No matter who joins, it would be as if they are all on equal points. There should be no option for a bigger gamble. That is the only fair-ish way of doing it and it would prevent points abuse to some degree. However, farmers would have a great time taking points from cooks with that system without risk.

Yeah. Anything that has the potential to be grossly abused by dishonest people shouldn't happen, but definitely liking the idea of putting a range on the points that can join games that you create. Although that limit should be within reason. It would have almost the same effect as what Lindax said without anyone being able to abuse it.
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Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby Swifte on Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:10 am

The whole point of the current scoring system is that if a stronger player plays a weaker player (in terms of their relative scores) the stronger player should be rewarded less for the win, as they would be expected to win more often. The higher ranked player correspondingly risks losing more points if the fall to a weaker opponent.

In an ante system, the stronger player can win a disproportionately high number of points from weaker opponents, while risking relatively fewer points (since everyone contributes the same number of points to the pot) - every point farmer in his right mind would rather play these kinds of games than games under the current system - less risked, easier potential for gain against the same lesser opponents.

I don't think an ante system could co-exist with the current scoring system at all.
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Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby jimboy on Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:35 pm

Swifte wrote:The whole point of the current scoring system is that if a stronger player plays a weaker player (in terms of their relative scores) the stronger player should be rewarded less for the win, as they would be expected to win more often. The higher ranked player correspondingly risks losing more points if the fall to a weaker opponent.

In an ante system, the stronger player can win a disproportionately high number of points from weaker opponents, while risking relatively fewer points (since everyone contributes the same number of points to the pot) - every point farmer in his right mind would rather play these kinds of games than games under the current system - less risked, easier potential for gain against the same lesser opponents.

I don't think an ante system could co-exist with the current scoring system at all.



I completely agree with Swifte's statements on this matter. An ante system will be a farmers paradise.
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Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby Paddy The Cat on Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:10 pm

The bigWham has not been a let down thus far!
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Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby Lindax on Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:41 pm

rdsrds2120 wrote:I feel like this could be abused by friends...I'll be sure to discuss it with BigWham!

BMO


Abuse takes place no matter what. I don't see why this would be more open to abuse than the current system.... How it would or would not affect the scoreboard I don't know (or care :D ).

And like Shannon said: You can limit it to simply 20 points for all. Or maybe only 10, 20 and 30 points, for example.

Lx

PS: Thanks for the bug-fix Blake.
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Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby DoomYoshi on Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:11 pm

OliverFA wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:Re betiko:Max rank has not been rejected.

Re OliverFA: I don't like the Survivor mode because stacking players (which are present in very many escalators and even win some of them) will get more of a reason to just stack.


You are judging a setting just by one of many options. Not all settings will work equally good with all the different options.


The other settings already stalemate more frequently.
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Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby JamesKer1 on Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:21 pm

I just want to say... This new management is amazing. I've never seen any gaming company make so many great updates like this in such a short amount of time! I don't know what happened, but something must have really clicked... This is just awesome :) keep it up, please!!!
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Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby betiko on Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:27 pm

Lindax wrote:
rdsrds2120 wrote:I feel like this could be abused by friends...I'll be sure to discuss it with BigWham!

BMO


Abuse takes place no matter what. I don't see why this would be more open to abuse than the current system.... How it would or would not affect the scoreboard I don't know (or care :D ).

And like Shannon said: You can limit it to simply 20 points for all. Or maybe only 10, 20 and 30 points, for example.

Lx

PS: Thanks for the bug-fix Blake.


I thought you were proposing something I proposed before and that was rejected, low stake games. right now we are on a 20pts basis. Sometimes higher ranked might want to play luck based games for fun vs any rank but the point system would just kick them in the nuts. Say you could make 10pts basis games (1-50pts) and other variants. This would not change the point difference won/loss in terms of ratio vs other ranks, you re just playing on half the points basis. This is just to play games for fun that would affect in a much lesser extent your rank. It would also encourage people to try new settings/maps, with little to lose until they feel comfortable about it.
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Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby SaviorShot on Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:01 pm

Sounds Fun
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Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby Robespierre__ on Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:54 pm

It seems the rating system is what it is. You really want unrated games since it makes no sense that you can dictate the value of a win to the rating system.
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Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby Shannon Apple on Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:51 am

Robespierre__ wrote:It seems the rating system is what it is. You really want unrated games since it makes no sense that you can dictate the value of a win to the rating system.

This!

I was thinking about it, and even 20 point games would result in some serious abuses, especially with high ranks vs low ranks. I don't think farming is right, and while it goes on now, it's still a risk for the farmer. (along with the risk of getting banned)

If there was an option to play 0 point games, this might appeal to those just wanting to play for fun. No risk of abuse whatsoever.
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Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby greenoaks on Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:00 am

Shannon Apple wrote:
Robespierre__ wrote:It seems the rating system is what it is. You really want unrated games since it makes no sense that you can dictate the value of a win to the rating system.

This!

I was thinking about it, and even 20 point games would result in some serious abuses, especially with high ranks vs low ranks. I don't think farming is right, and while it goes on now, it's still a risk for the farmer. (along with the risk of getting banned)

If there was an option to play 0 point games, this might appeal to those just wanting to play for fun. No risk of abuse whatsoever.

absolutely a risk of abuse.

practise on a map until you're awesome, then play for points.
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Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby betiko on Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:25 am

greenoaks wrote:
Shannon Apple wrote:
Robespierre__ wrote:It seems the rating system is what it is. You really want unrated games since it makes no sense that you can dictate the value of a win to the rating system.

This!

I was thinking about it, and even 20 point games would result in some serious abuses, especially with high ranks vs low ranks. I don't think farming is right, and while it goes on now, it's still a risk for the farmer. (along with the risk of getting banned)

If there was an option to play 0 point games, this might appeal to those just wanting to play for fun. No risk of abuse whatsoever.

absolutely a risk of abuse.

practise on a map until you're awesome, then play for points.


and? anyone can do this. Take a poker site for example, you can play for fun with fake money to practice. Everyone is on the same boat here, everyone can practice the map they want just for fun; or simply play stupid games just for fun. I think it would encourage playing more speed games. Hell, it would increase dramatically the amount of games played on the site, eople would stop having cold feet to join this or that.
The ranking would mean a different thing I agree; points games would be much more competitive. would that be a bad thing? Do you think it's normal to have very good players at a low rank right now because they medal hunt/ play stupid games for fun? The ranking would be much more acurate.
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Re: Update 9/5/13

Postby Shannon Apple on Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:47 pm

betiko wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
Shannon Apple wrote:
Robespierre__ wrote:It seems the rating system is what it is. You really want unrated games since it makes no sense that you can dictate the value of a win to the rating system.

This!

I was thinking about it, and even 20 point games would result in some serious abuses, especially with high ranks vs low ranks. I don't think farming is right, and while it goes on now, it's still a risk for the farmer. (along with the risk of getting banned)

If there was an option to play 0 point games, this might appeal to those just wanting to play for fun. No risk of abuse whatsoever.

absolutely a risk of abuse.

practise on a map until you're awesome, then play for points.


and? anyone can do this. Take a poker site for example, you can play for fun with fake money to practice. Everyone is on the same boat here, everyone can practice the map they want just for fun; or simply play stupid games just for fun. I think it would encourage playing more speed games. Hell, it would increase dramatically the amount of games played on the site, eople would stop having cold feet to join this or that.
The ranking would mean a different thing I agree; points games would be much more competitive. would that be a bad thing? Do you think it's normal to have very good players at a low rank right now because they medal hunt/ play stupid games for fun? The ranking would be much more acurate.

Exactly, and I'll practice until I'm awesome via teamgames anyway with someone who already knows the map rather than going down the route of joining a bunch of games outright, so I don't see how skill level on a map should matter, you can search that info anyway. If they wanna mess around on a map, then play for points, fantastic! It'd mean more people playing competitively and it could be a shitload of fun. I think win rate should still be affected by those games so that there's still something to think about.

I think that this would also help new people to get into the game.

I made a suggestion before that the first x amount of games that a newbie plays should be 0 points. Being hammered for points forces several newbies to leave.
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