[Official] Montreal REVAMP [Quenched]

Care to peruse completed maps? Take a stroll through the Atlas.

Moderators: Cartographers, Global Moderators

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

[Official] Montreal REVAMP [Quenched]

Postby WidowMakers on Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:48 pm

I have been working with RockSolid for over a week. Here are my initial drafts of the large and small.

RockSolid has specific requirements:
*keeping the colors the same for both the lakes water and the territories.
*No army circles
*He wants the feel of the map to be the same just touched up and updated.
*He was very specific about maintaining the borders of teh territories to be as close as possible to the actual municipalities.

Changes:
The original Montreal map had several 4 way corners
1) Beaconsfield/Kirkland/Baie d'Urfe/Ste-Anne,
2) Plateau/Hochelaga/Rosemont/Downtown, and
3) Anjou/St-Leonard/Riviere-des-Prairies/Mtl-Nord

Those have been eliminated and now are:
1)Kirkland now borders Baie d'Urfe (minimum impact on movement. This was the prefered border fo RockSolid)
2)Plateau now borders Hochelaga (this does not impact gameplay becasue Platue only borders Rosemont and Downtown. If Downtown were to border Rosemont, the movement throught Ville-Marie would be affected.
3)St-Leonard now borders Riviere-des-Prairies (This arrangement keeps the number of border territories the same. Connecting Anjou and Mtl-Nord would have increased the borders of Bout de I'lle by 1.)

I talked about the 4 way corners and adjusted them, as posted above, to RockSolid's liking.

Here are the Draft Versions:
Large
Image
Image

Small
Image
Image

XML is unchanged except for the edited 4-ways and coordinates of the new numbers. The current numbers are just placeholders to show intent.
Last edited by WidowMakers on Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:04 pm, edited 10 times in total.
Image
Colonel WidowMakers
 
Posts: 2772
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:25 am
Location: Detroit, MI
Medals: 71
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (10) Map Contribution (21) General Contribution (14)

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:50 pm

This thread is indeed official, and endorsed. :)


--Andy
User avatar
Corporal AndyDufresne
Retired Administrator
 
Posts: 25044
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: A Banana Palm in Zihuatanejo
Medals: 20
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) General Achievement (4) General Contribution (2)

Postby jnd94 on Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:52 pm

Wow, it looks great!
Captain jnd94
 
Posts: 7190
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:22 pm
Medals: 39
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (2)

Postby d.gishman on Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:06 pm

wow, looks great already, looks like a nice tourist map. good job
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class d.gishman
 
Posts: 310
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:11 pm
Medals: 3
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1)

Postby dominationnation on Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:11 pm

can you change borders like that? I thought that lack said no to that because he didnt want any borders to have to change for someone in the middle of the game. Other than that it looks great!
Cook dominationnation
 
Posts: 4234
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:20 am

Postby johloh on Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:09 pm

yeah ive been busy the last few weeks...

would have atleast been considerate for someone to inform me that I was being taken off of working on an project...

gl with the map...
my new site - http://www.spritestitch.com/ - A video game craft weblog...
User avatar
Major johloh
 
Posts: 472
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:58 pm
Location: San Francisco
Medals: 11
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (1) Map Contribution (2) Tournament Contribution (1)

Postby cairnswk on Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:19 pm

WM and RockSolid...congrats on this official revamp. :)
The map does look great, but i am concerned about the colours being TOO bright...a common cause for "eye distress". Can they be dulled a little without altering them too much?
User avatar
Corporal cairnswk
 
Posts: 11490
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:32 pm
Medals: 50
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (2) Map Contribution (35) General Contribution (3)

Postby WidowMakers on Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:06 am

dominationnation wrote:can you change borders like that? I thought that lack said no to that because he didnt want any borders to have to change for someone in the middle of the game. Other than that it looks great!
I realize that most revamps are not allowed to change anything but graphics. However, when talking with RockSoild I explained to him that 4-way corners are not liked very much in the foundry. We talked and he agreed that if the foundry thinks that 4-ways are bad for gameplay, then we could change them. I was just taking preventative measures since historically those 4-ways have been taken out of newer maps.

cairnswk wrote:WM and RockSolid...congrats on this official revamp. Smile
The map does look great, but i am concerned about the colours being TOO bright...a common cause for "eye distress". Can they be dulled a little without altering them too much?
Here is the old map
Image
I will try to get the colors back to these levels. RockSolid was very specific on the color choices. However, I am sure I can ton ethem down without affecting the color that much.

johloh wrote:yeah ive been busy the last few weeks...

would have atleast been considerate for someone to inform me that I was being taken off of working on an project...

gl with the map...
Sorry. I was just looking for things to do and since I was already redoing the Circus Maximus, RockSolid asked if I wanted to do the Montreal map too. I was under the impression that you had stopped and it was free game. Believe me, if I knew you were still doing it, I would not have spent over a week making 5 drafts with RockSolid over email.
Image
Colonel WidowMakers
 
Posts: 2772
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:25 am
Location: Detroit, MI
Medals: 71
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (10) Map Contribution (21) General Contribution (14)

Postby hulmey on Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:23 am

Shouldnt map makers be given equal chance to RE-Vamp maps and at least people can offically apply to these maps...

The map foundry is not just one map and i think the community should be given a chance to re - vamp maps. This is very unfair.

This is not a dig at you Widow but we were told every1 would be apply to have a try at Re-Vamping
[img]http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/9761/41922610151374166770386.jpg[/mg]
User avatar
Lieutenant hulmey
 
Posts: 3739
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:33 am
Location: Las Vegas
Medals: 36
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (4)

Postby WidowMakers on Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:37 am

hulmey wrote:Shouldnt map makers be given equal chance to RE-Vamp maps and at least people can offically apply to these maps...

The map foundry is not just one map and i think the community should be given a chance to re - vamp maps. This is very unfair.

This is not a dig at you Widow but we were told every1 would be apply to have a try at Re-Vamping
I agree with you hulmey. Here is what the original author had to say in the other post.

rocksolid wrote:Haven't been around these parts in almost a year, so I'm a little out of touch with all this...

Hmm...an unfortunate miscommunication, from the looks of it. Johloh sent me his last draft a donkey's age ago, and when I replied voicing a lot of objections I had to elements of it, he didn't respond - that was about a month ago. I figured he was fed up with my requests for changes, and I assumed he abandoned the map. I mentioned this to Keyogi, which is how WidowMakers got involved, who had done excellent work on my other map (Circus Maximus).

Since then, WM's done some great work on Montreal, and I'm very happy with his version. Not to cast aspersions on Johloh's efforts, but I feel that WM's is far closer to being a revamp of the original map; Johloh's is a recasting (in the mould of San Francisco) rather than a revamping. WM's also gone to great pains to pay attention to detail (his borders follow the actual city borders, etc). At least half of the territory borders in Johloh's version need to be redrawn to be true to life.

There are still a couple of points where WM and I disagree - I wanted to keep the gameplay the same, while he wanted the intersecting borders to be less ambiguous - but that is material for a foundry thread, as I figured his opinion would be more popular than mine on that issue. But as far as which version I'd like to see go forward, I'm in favour of WM's.


Again there is nothing wrong with the revamp johloh did. When I saw it I thought it had good potential. However, since this is a revamp, the original author can and has set guidelines, those are the rules of the map. I did my initial draft and got over 2 full pages of issues and change requests from RockSolid. This map is more his idea with my graphics. I really only chose the size of the map and the different layout. He was very specific that this look like the original only better graphics.

Believe me there were plenty of things I wanted to change but was asked to put them back since they were straying away from the original intent of the current map.

Based on what RockSolid said, if Johloh wants to redo his and just do a cleanup graphics of the original with all of the guidelines in the first post of this thread, then lets have a vote.
Image
Colonel WidowMakers
 
Posts: 2772
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:25 am
Location: Detroit, MI
Medals: 71
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (10) Map Contribution (21) General Contribution (14)

Postby hulmey on Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:57 am

As far as im concerned im not backing you or joholo to do this map. My concern is that you now done 2 RE-Vamps out of 3 and that the whole foundry should be able to have a go.

Not only that the other map was also done by a moderator and my question again is let other map authors ahve a go.

You have outstanding talent and determination WM, no doubt about it but cant we see other map makers have a go at RE-vamping pls.
[img]http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/9761/41922610151374166770386.jpg[/mg]
User avatar
Lieutenant hulmey
 
Posts: 3739
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:33 am
Location: Las Vegas
Medals: 36
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (3) Tournament Contribution (4)

Postby DiM on Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:11 am

th colours wm used are problematic. i would like to see an image with random armies. red on red continent is hard to see and i'm sure there will be problems on blue green and yellow.

also i kinda liked the castle in downtown. any chance we'll see that in the revamp?
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
Image
User avatar
Major DiM
 
Posts: 10388
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: making maps for scooby snacks
Medals: 45
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (2)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (4) Map Contribution (10)
Tournament Contribution (4) General Contribution (3)

Postby DiM on Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:23 am

hulmey wrote:As far as im concerned im not backing you or joholo to do this map. My concern is that you now done 2 RE-Vamps out of 3 and that the whole foundry should be able to have a go.

Not only that the other map was also done by a moderator and my question again is let other map authors ahve a go.

You have outstanding talent and determination WM, no doubt about it but cant we see other map makers have a go at RE-vamping pls.


i see no problem in wm revamping everything if he wants to. i just don't like the lack of communication.

in my opinion johloh should have been announced especially since on the Revamp Developmental Atlas he is nominated as the revamper:

Revamp Developmental Atlas

Approved

* Circus Maximus
Nominated Cartographers: WidowMakers

Proposed

* Canada
Nominated Cartographers: Keredrex

* Indochina
Nominated Cartographers: Wisse

* Montreal
Nominated Cartographers: johloh


about 1 and a half months ago i was bored and started revamping montreal. i did the borders and the colouring and all that was needed was text and some effects. i pmd keyogi to ask him if i could tackle the gameplay and if me changing the 4 way borders was a problem and found out he was already working on a montreal revamp.
after i found out i'm not allowed to alter the gameplay i abandoned it. i don't mind but this is just another case of miscomunication, and after a quick change of pms keyogi said i should wait with any revamps i want to do until they announce an official revamp strategy. when that was announced i was under the impression it would be respected.

now the way i see the problem, johloh is the official revamper and wm just butted in. but it's now wm's fault since he talked to andy and got his approval.

now the question is, which revamp should be promoted? i personally like wm's version but since johloh was the first and nominated it would not be fair towards him because wm shouldn't have even started working on this one. tricky situation where i think the blame rests on the shoulders of the mods.

probably a voting should be done but regardless of the outcome some people will be pissed. that's for sure.
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
Image
User avatar
Major DiM
 
Posts: 10388
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: making maps for scooby snacks
Medals: 45
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (2)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (4) Map Contribution (10)
Tournament Contribution (4) General Contribution (3)

Postby Teya on Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:50 am

hulmey wrote:Shouldnt map makers be given equal chance to RE-Vamp maps and at least people can offically apply to these maps...


This was discussed in the unofficial revamp thread that keyogi started a while ago. He wanted to find out who wanted to revamp what, so he could contact the original cartographer for permission. Not many people put their hand up. Keyogi also wanted to limit how many maps 1 cartographer could revamp so they werent all done by the same person however the foundry disagreed with this and said If WM wants to revamp all the maps then let him.

hulmey wrote:Not only that the other map was also done by a moderator and my question again is let other map authors ahve a go.

Keyogi started the middle east revamp before he was made CA.

DiM wrote:now the way i see the problem, johloh is the official revamper and wm just butted in. but it's now wm's fault since he talked to andy and got his approval.

If you read what rock solid wrote which WM quoted you will see that this is not the case.

DiM wrote:tricky situation where i think the blame rests on the shoulders of the mods.

You are very quick to blame anything that goes wrong on the mods DiM
but if you read what RS wrote I think you'll find that if anyone is to blame it is Johloh. RS wasnt happy, Johloh never replied.

When it comes down to it, the final say does really come down to rock solid. If he wants WM to continue instead of Johloh Its not really the foundries place to complain. After all, rock solid can pull the pin on the revamp and not let anyone touch it.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Teya
 
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:25 am

Postby mibi on Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:06 am

looking good wm.
User avatar
Captain mibi
 
Posts: 3360
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:19 pm
Location: The Great State of Vermont
Medals: 13
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5)
General Contribution (3)

Next

Return to The Atlas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Login