Moderator: Cartographers
DiM wrote:yeti_c wrote:DiM - you're arguing for arguings sake here - you know full well that having an attack line is easier to understand than something written somewhere else on the map saying "All Docks attack each other"...
I was merely suggesting a different name - if you can come up with a better one - feel free - if not - then STFU.
If you'd've drawn all those lines over AOM it wouldn't've gotten through the Foundry.
C.
exactly my point because those lines would have made the map really confusing whereas a simple explanation sorts all problems. BUT according to you and coleman the map is actually more complex because it has that explanation instead of lines. this is what puzzles me. you actually manage to make things more confusing with your strange inventions.
Coleman wrote:Also unless someone gets a wild hair up their ass to include every feature we've defined in a map well enough for it to pass the foundry no new player is going to see every single feature all at once.
yeti_c is correct. DiM listen. He is not saying that AOM is bad, he is saying it is more complicated. That is not a bad thing, it is just a fact. Stop arguing.yeti_c wrote:DiM wrote:yeti_c wrote:DiM - you're arguing for arguings sake here - you know full well that having an attack line is easier to understand than something written somewhere else on the map saying "All Docks attack each other"...
I was merely suggesting a different name - if you can come up with a better one - feel free - if not - then STFU.
If you'd've drawn all those lines over AOM it wouldn't've gotten through the Foundry.
C.
exactly my point because those lines would have made the map really confusing whereas a simple explanation sorts all problems. BUT according to you and coleman the map is actually more complex because it has that explanation instead of lines. this is what puzzles me. you actually manage to make things more confusing with your strange inventions.
NO NO NO NO...
You miss the point... there are 10 Ports in AOM and 10? docks in AOM...
So each Dock not only borders 20 other territories but also the 2-3-4 that it actually touches...
How can you not see that is more complicated than a territory that connnect to 2 3 4 territories with a line to another territory?
Anyways - I can't be arsed to argue anymore - I'm off to bed.
C.
WidowMakers wrote:DiM you are just being ridiculous. You are taking this to the extreme to try and prove a point that you maps are not complex. BUT THEY ARE!!!
so on classic we have a line from brazil to africa. if we remove that line and add 2 docks and say in the legend brazil dock connects to africa dock then the classic maps becomes complicated?
on aom we have the explanation in the legend but if i remove that and add lines back and forth between the ports the map is no longer gimmicky but classic?
this is what you're basically saying. and i strongly disagree because in some cases a legend instruction can simplify then map not make it harder to understand. and the aom is the perfect example. remove the explanation and add lines and in theory it will no longer have the ranged attacks gimmick but in reality it will be much harder to understand because of the graphical layout.
and that's the problem of the complexity quantification you people are trying to do here. what's complex for a map is actually simple for another and a gimmick here can make life easier while on another map it can make it harder. complexity of maps is not something you can decide regarding judging by terit numbers number of gimmicks and stuff like that. a map with no gimmicks can be hard as hell and most people won't have the slightest idea what to do while a map with lots of gimmicks can be so user friendly and it can have a game flow that people will instantly comprehend and thus be considered a damn easy map.
you can't simply say this gimmick is hard and this is not and then separate all maps based on that. it wouldn't be true.
imagine a map with 3 terits. 3 islands. 1 starts as neutral. the other 2 are for the players. each starting island has an auto deploy bonus and the third neutral island is a resource that also gives a bonus but it also has decay on it. the starting terits can bombard eachother and can one way range attack the neutral island. there's also an objective of holding the island and your starting point to win.
add some confusing names like rrr1$@jjj and YYY^^^4hu and according to your calculation that would be one hell of a complex map.
you have bombardments, one way, ranged attacks, objective, starting neutrals, conquest gameplay, strategic resources, autodeploy, decay, confusing names and i reckon i can squeeze a few more gimmicks in there. would that map be complex or simple? i say it's pretty darn simple. according to your calculations it would be the most complex map ever since it has 10 gimmicks.
and please don't tell me such a map would not get quenched cause we aren't talking about that here.
Completly agree. I am working on a pic to show how I think the map screen should look.DiM wrote:i don't give a rusty dime if my maps are considered complex or simple, all i care is that the organization project must provide an easy to understand, easy to use way for people to comprehend the maps. and so far you guys are making things way too complicated. unnecessarily complicated.
mibi wrote:AoM is more complicated... its next to impossible to determine just what your bonus will be with all the +1 +2 and multipliers etc let a lone all the other players bonuses... i often just attack a port because I know it will increase my bonus, but I never know by how much...
AoM is a decent map, I am currently in round 26 in a 6 player game that could go either way... but the fact is, this map would be unplayable without BOB. Thats not a bad thing, just a complicated thing.
WidowMakers wrote:Completly agree. I am working on a pic to show how I think the map screen should look.DiM wrote:i don't give a rusty dime if my maps are considered complex or simple, all i care is that the organization project must provide an easy to understand, easy to use way for people to comprehend the maps. and so far you guys are making things way too complicated. unnecessarily complicated.
WM
rebelman wrote:if anyone wanted proof how nuts the foundry people are (or at least some of them) a read of this thread should do the trick
Coleman wrote:We don't need to borrow any clothes from you DiM.
Herakilla wrote:dim stop being an arse lol and just admit that your maps are complex! afterall i dont think you made them specifically for the newer players now did you *wags finger*
DiM wrote:mibi wrote:just like siege. if a guy has a camp look to see if he also has the gate and add to that. the only difference is that on aom you have more adding to do.
mibi wrote:maybe its intuitive to you... but i simply can't play it without computational help (Bob)
mibi wrote:I have to disagree with some of those ratings.
I don't know what you mean. Go to the back of what?Kaplowitz wrote:If you have never played a map, would it go to the back? b/c this might encourage people to never try new maps cause its always at the bottom; i realize you can choose A-Z...but idk.
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