Babysitting specification to Rules

Suggestions that have been inactive for a long period of time.

Moderators: Suggestions Team, Global Moderators

Babysitting specification to Rules

Postby amazzony on Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:04 pm

Suggestion Idea: the part in the Rules that explains how and if babysitting is allowed should be more specific.

Specifics: I don't know how it should exactly be but it needs to be more clear. Check out the Clicky.
I'm playing double freestyle games with my partner and in the past 2 weeks we've had 2 cases where people go against that "rule" that is mentioned in the thread. They do it because they don't know that babysitting like that isn't allowed.

Why it is needed: because busting people for braking a rule that they don't know about and isn't mentioned publicly and officially anywhere is unfair and might ruin a good gaming experience to somebody who really don't know about this rule.


Cheers,
amazzony

PS All those anti-freestyle people, please shut the hell up. Thanks :)
Image
"Thou shalt accept thy dice rolls as the will of the Gods" (Church of Gaming)
"amazzony is a beast" (Woodruff)
User avatar
Lieutenant amazzony
 
Posts: 10868
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:58 pm
Medals: 113
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Tournament Achievement (26) General Achievement (5) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (32) General Contribution (4)

Postby wicked on Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:07 pm

Agreed. Help us rewrite it then. Here's what it currently says. What do you propose?


FAQ wrote:15. Can I let another player take a turn for me when I am away from the game?

You can, with the stipulation that the account babysitter is not your opponent in any current game. It is common courtesy to announce in game chat that another player will take your turn(s) during your absence. Account babysitters should not start or join new games, with the exception of tournament games.
User avatar
Major wicked
 
Posts: 15794
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:23 pm
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) General Contribution (1)

Postby amazzony on Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:12 pm

Thanks but no thanks, I gave you idea, others can do the work :lol: I'm moving back to playing game and running tourneys now ;)
Image
"Thou shalt accept thy dice rolls as the will of the Gods" (Church of Gaming)
"amazzony is a beast" (Woodruff)
User avatar
Lieutenant amazzony
 
Posts: 10868
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:58 pm
Medals: 113
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Tournament Achievement (26) General Achievement (5) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (32) General Contribution (4)

Postby sfhbballnut on Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:00 pm

wait so is it ok for you're partner to take your turn's in a doubles game?
Corporal sfhbballnut
 
Posts: 1687
Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 3:01 pm
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)

Postby amazzony on Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:10 pm

sfhbballnut wrote:wait so is it ok for you're partner to take your turn's in a doubles game?


It is saying that it isn't. Unless the person is going to miss turn.
Image
"Thou shalt accept thy dice rolls as the will of the Gods" (Church of Gaming)
"amazzony is a beast" (Woodruff)
User avatar
Lieutenant amazzony
 
Posts: 10868
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:58 pm
Medals: 113
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (3) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
Tournament Achievement (26) General Achievement (5) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (32) General Contribution (4)

Postby wicked on Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:44 pm

sfhbballnut wrote:wait so is it ok for you're partner to take your turn's in a doubles game?


Only if you're physically unable to take your turn in 24 hours.
User avatar
Major wicked
 
Posts: 15794
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:23 pm
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) General Contribution (1)

Postby simor on Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:46 am

wicked wrote:
sfhbballnut wrote:wait so is it ok for you're partner to take your turn's in a doubles game?


Only if you're physically unable to take your turn in 24 hours.


Pardon my intrusion, but I believe that this is a bit more complex when we consider freestyle team games (and this is what inspired my partner amazzony to write this post).

In freestyle partners who play together (meaning at the same time and also coordinating their actions) have a big advantage over those who play at different times and don't communicate.

If you take a solid team and let one partner control two accounts you are not really giving them any advantage. Freestyle sometimes requires fast actions and if you are 1 vs 2 then you are not going to be better off.

If you take a "lousy" team, then by letting one player take actions of both s/he is better off her/himself no matter who s/he plays against, a solid or lousy team. If its a lousy one then s/he might just got enough advantage to win his/her game. If its a solid one then the game will become similar to solid vs solid where each team "acts as 1" but one team is just slower.

If you let people play for their partners, some ppl will abuse it simply becuase its allowed and in the end the people who want to cheat will still cheat and this time you won't be able to do anything to them becuase your rulles allow it.
On the other hand, when two solid teams play vs each other and one has to baby sit for partner who would in all other cases also play at the same time ("act as 1") AND the other team has nothing against it then there is no point trying to make their life harder to look for someone to play the missing partner (because in the end they will still play together and one player will tell the other what to do).

To sum up.
These are the two possible solutions that I see. You either ban partners baby sitting each other or let it be decided on a "per game" basis where team can baby sit only if the other team allows for it. Most important is that it has to be CLEARLY marked in the FAQ.

Regards
simor
Colonel simor
 
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:56 pm
Medals: 12
Doubles Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (1)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Postby sfhbballnut on Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:14 am

I meant in a babysitting situation, with what I said earlier, bviously you can't take turns for anybody, especialy not your partner if they can take ther turns. As you're saying there's no special advantage to taking you're partners turns for them in the case that they cannot take their turns so it should be ok. Does it solve the problem if we put in the FAQ "Yes you can babysit the account of somone who is on you're team in a team game if they are incapable of taking their turns on a given day so long as you are not their opponent in any game" or is their still a hole their?
Corporal sfhbballnut
 
Posts: 1687
Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 3:01 pm
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)

Postby simor on Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:32 am

sfhbballnut wrote:I meant in a babysitting situation, with what I said earlier, bviously you can't take turns for anybody, especialy not your partner if they can take ther turns. As you're saying there's no special advantage to taking you're partners turns for them in the case that they cannot take their turns so it should be ok. Does it solve the problem if we put in the FAQ "Yes you can babysit the account of somone who is on you're team in a team game if they are incapable of taking their turns on a given day so long as you are not their opponent in any game" or is their still a hole their?


And how are you going to prove that? By saying "oh my partner couldn't play AGAIN, sorry he's really busy" ?

I still think people will abuse it becuase it gives you clear ADVANTAGE when you eg. join team games with players who never played together and might not coordinate attacks.
Colonel simor
 
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:56 pm
Medals: 12
Doubles Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (1)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Postby sfhbballnut on Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:39 am

remember you're not supposed to start or join new games as a babysitter, so it'd be pretty obvious something was up if one guy keeps joining games just to not play and have someone else play for him, I may be wrong, but I don't see a huge advantage to being a one man team so as far as getting abused, what could someone hope to acieve? the whole babysitting business is a little shady, but it's nice to not have to deadbeatif you can't reach a computer. If someone is doing something they shouldn't be it'll get reported and dealt with in due course like anything else
Corporal sfhbballnut
 
Posts: 1687
Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 3:01 pm
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)

Postby wicked on Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:44 am

simor wrote:And how are you going to prove that? By saying "oh my partner couldn't play AGAIN, sorry he's really busy" ?


Well we can look to see if he's playing his other games. And we can also tell who's accessing the account when.
User avatar
Major wicked
 
Posts: 15794
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:23 pm
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) General Contribution (1)

Postby wicked on Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:47 am

simor wrote:If you take a solid team and let one partner control two accounts you are not really giving them any advantage.


The challenge of a team game is the coordination and communication. If one player is playing both accounts, there is no coordination or communication necessary, giving that team an unfair advantage especially in freestyle where time is of the essence.
User avatar
Major wicked
 
Posts: 15794
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:23 pm
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) General Contribution (1)

Postby sfhbballnut on Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:49 am

so are we saying its not fair to take turns for you're partner in team games, even if you're babysitting for them? does the rule need to state that you can't be in any games with someone you're going to babysit accaounts for?
Corporal sfhbballnut
 
Posts: 1687
Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 3:01 pm
Medals: 8
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)

Postby wicked on Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:52 am

No, we're saying it's OK on a temporary basis when your partner is unable to log on once within 24 hours to play. The slight advantage gained from playing both accounts temporarily is outweighed by the huge disadvantage you'd be under if your partner missed a turn, so is allowed for that reason.
User avatar
Major wicked
 
Posts: 15794
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:23 pm
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) General Contribution (1)

Postby simor on Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:13 am

wicked wrote:
simor wrote:And how are you going to prove that? By saying "oh my partner couldn't play AGAIN, sorry he's really busy" ?


Well we can look to see if he's playing his other games. And we can also tell who's accessing the account when.


Ever heard of friends playing from school/work (same location), family members playing from home (same location)? If they stick to team games you have no way to check who's controlling their browsers now, do you?
Colonel simor
 
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:56 pm
Medals: 12
Doubles Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (1)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Postby simor on Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:05 pm

wicked wrote:
simor wrote:If you take a solid team and let one partner control two accounts you are not really giving them any advantage.


The challenge of a team game is the coordination and communication. If one player is playing both accounts, there is no coordination or communication necessary, giving that team an unfair advantage especially in freestyle where time is of the essence.


1. Having ONE players taking turns of both accounts makes him/her play slower "especially in freestyle where time is of the essence" so this is no advantage, so you are wrong.

2. Your statement only applies to some random players who can't communicate or don't understand the point of a freestyle team game.
Coordination and communication isn't any challenge on a proper (solid) team where one player can guess what his/her partner would do without hearing it from them in the first place.
Colonel simor
 
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:56 pm
Medals: 12
Doubles Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (1)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Postby wicked on Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:22 pm

Simor, if we're playing a freestyle team game, and I can only log in at certain times, by letting you play for me, we've now gained an advantage since now my turn can be taken at any time, not just when I can log on. Sorry, but there is an advantage to having one person playing both accounts, and it gets into cheating at that point with one person controlling multiple accounts.
User avatar
Major wicked
 
Posts: 15794
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:23 pm
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) General Contribution (1)

Postby simor on Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:14 pm

wicked wrote:Simor, if we're playing a freestyle team game, and I can only log in at certain times, by letting you play for me, we've now gained an advantage since now my turn can be taken at any time, not just when I can log on. Sorry, but there is an advantage to having one person playing both accounts, and it gets into cheating at that point with one person controlling multiple accounts.


As I said before, you picked two random people and by the way you phrased yourself it seems you'd actually play your turn without me... and that's why I wouldn't play with you in the first place :P How about you think about a couple who plays from the same room every day.. I'm saying this for 3rd time but you seem to ignore it every time ;)

Also, please tell me why exactly I can play for my partner when its 10 min before we miss our turn :)
Colonel simor
 
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:56 pm
Medals: 12
Doubles Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (1)
Tournament Contribution (4)

Postby wicked on Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:04 pm

If you're playing from the same room, you most definitely shouldn't be taking each other's turns, as that makes you look like a multi from our end. The majority of people here aren't playing from the same room as their partner.
User avatar
Major wicked
 
Posts: 15794
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:23 pm
Medals: 18
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (1) General Contribution (1)

Postby simor on Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:54 pm

wicked wrote:If you're playing from the same room, you most definitely shouldn't be taking each other's turns, as that makes you look like a multi from our end. The majority of people here aren't playing from the same room as their partner.


:lol: I don't care how it looks from you end, point is that for them it is NOT an advantage because they play together faster, which is what I was trying to tell you for the past couple of hours. So saying that it is an advantage just because it applies to some group of ppl is wrong. Please be more specific and CLEAR.

FAQ says baby sitting is allowed, well guess what, we busted 4 ppl on baby sitting in doubles because its not allowed in some cases. Please be more specific and CLEAR.

Your logic that I can babysit my partner at 24h but not at 12h where the reason is exactly the same: to play when its our time before the other team has a chance to play doesn't hold itself. I'm sorry I dont see how the 24h mark is more important than 12h mark in freestyle.
Colonel simor
 
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:56 pm
Medals: 12
Doubles Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (1)
Tournament Contribution (4)


Return to Archived Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Login