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Re: Periodic Table of Elements

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 7:32 pm
by DoomYoshi
A -1 decay with a +1 bonus is a really interesting mechanic that I don't think has ever been seen.

39 should only attack 57, 38 and 21, but i can understand adding 40 to keep the art simpler.

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Re: Periodic Table of Elements

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 8:11 pm
by HitRed
DoomYoshi wrote:A -1 decay with a +1 bonus is a really interesting mechanic that I don't think has ever been seen.

39 should only attack 57, 38 and 21, but i can understand adding 40 to keep the art simpler.

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Building a new map is in stages and things change over time. Yes, from pervious postings the nuclear would be -1 WHEN we only had 6. Since the we moved to listing ALL OF THEM (38) and our discussions haven't covered players avoiding them like the plague.

Nuclear swill be reviewed.

Thanks you for posting the long PTE version. I was reviewing that too. The connections to the bottom 2 bonuses will be reviewed.

Very good insight for both of you.

Looking at a barrier between 39 and 71. Also keeping the barrier between 57 and 71, 89 and 103. So PTE will be the short map but play like the long map.

40 must be included as terr. 39 attacks the sequential number before and after. Makes the map edges more interesting.

Thanks,

HitRed

Re: Periodic Table of Elements V.9

PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:22 am
by HitRed
After some very insightful posts from Donelladan and DoomYoshi these changes have been made.

1) To avoid confusion in the movements between the area of element 39 and the Lanthanoids and Actinoids a solid black line has been added. This is an impassable barrier to show players where they can and can't attack. These changes were made after reviewing the long map.

2) The legend has been rewritten to make them more clear.

3) Donelladan was concerned the bottom bonus Actinoids would become to powerful. The Red Nuclear symbols are now -1 decay. Since they distributed nicely over 5 other bonuses (Post-Transition, Metalloids, Noble, Alkali and Alkaline) and there are four in the Actinoids this will make the Actinoids more balanced. If you owned all 11 Yellow Nuclear and the 1 on 61 Pm then you would have +4 balanced out by -4 from the four that decay -1. Once taken you would then be getting a large bonus to reward all your work. The Yellow Nuclear are +1 for each 3 you own. This new balance seems awesome to me.

The Red Nuclear are naturally occurring.
The Yellow Nuclear are created.

Future decisions...
Bonuses need to be reviewed.
How many starting positions for 2 players up to 12 players?
Minimum troops per turn? 3 or 4?

Thanks for all the help! It takes a while to hammer all this out.

HitRed

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PTE V.9

Re: Periodic Table of Elements

PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 6:24 pm
by DoomYoshi
Hi Hitred. That was a fast response to my suggestions. I'll just give you my general map philosophy. Maps with lots of small bonuses are fun. Maps that are tough to get bonuses are not so fun. Right now you have a great mix of small bonuses which means - I love it. I am concerned a bit about the open-ended nature of the map. It doesn't seem like there are many corners to hide in which reminds me of the Tribal War Series. My last caution is that starting neutrals can be fun, but usually not. I would ignore the urge to make both flags and ancients starting neutral. Make one neutral, or the other, or neither. Even if you go with both as neutral (I realize not many people think like me), they should be low neutrals like 1 or 2.

Looks really fun and I can't wait to playtest it.

Re: Periodic Table of Elements

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 1:36 am
by Donelladan
I agree with DoomYoshi : I can't wait to play it and small bonus are fun.
But don't listent to him for the +1 auto and +1 deploy ! They should both stay neutral.
There is too many of them to not make them neutral imo.


Concerning your other questions.
I personally prefer 4 minium/turn, with 1 troops for 4 regions when the map is above 100 regions.If I counted correctly with the ancient and flag you'll have 26 regions.
74 starting regions.

If you go with 4 /turn and 1 troop for 4 regions, I think in 1vs1 players should start with 27 regions.
It makes them drop 6/turn, and you need to reduce the 2nd player to start to 23 regions to make him lose 1, thus quite difficult to achieve in 1st turn, making the 1vs1 game balanced enough.

Then 3 players games they would start with 24 regions each and 2 neutrals, you could make it 23 each and 5 neutrals.
Then from 4 players and later, no need to add extra neutrals since they would start below 20, just divide.


EDIT : I've been told I made a mistake.
So 118 territories and 26 neutrals (ancient and flag ) = 92 regions.

So if we go with 4 regions = +1 troops again.
in 1vs1 I'd like to see 27 regions/players = 54 starting regions and 92-54 = 38 extra neutrals position.

3 players game, if we decide to go with 27 regions again it means 81 regions for the players, and 11 extra neutrals.
Then afterwards I'd say no need for extra neutrals.


Concerning the changes you made, I like the new borders for lanthanoids and actinoids, but I think the maps looked better before esthetically.

Re: Periodic Table of Elements

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:40 pm
by HitRed
This is the drop chart results.

118 total territories

Coded neutrals are
12 Ancients
15 Flags
10 Red Nuclear auto-decay -1
28 - 5 that have flags and -2 more that start non neutral for gameplay. = 21 Yellow Nuclear. Own 3 get +1 (Most will start N1, 1/3 will start N2) NOTE: 2 will start non neutral for gameplay. Elements 98 & 117. No player will start will extra bonus!

58 Coded neutrals


60 Normal territories

2 player + neutral 3rd player
Territories for each player 20
Total Neutrals 78

3 player
Territories for each player 20
Total Neutrals 58

4 player
Territories for each player 15
Total Neutrals 58

5 player
Territories for each player 12
Total Neutrals 58

6 player
Territories for each player 10
Total Neutrals 58

7 player
Territories for each player 8
Total Neutrals 62

8 player
Territories for each player 7
Total Neutrals 62

9 player
Territories for each player 6
Total Neutrals 64

12 player
Territories for each player 4
Total Neutrals 70

HitRed

Re: Periodic Table of Elements

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:41 am
by Donelladan
If you put all nuclear (red and yellow ) neutrals, the whole actinoids line become neutral, thus it will probably be ignored most of the time.

I wouldn't put either nuclear neutrals.

Re: Periodic Table of Elements V.10

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:59 pm
by HitRed
Image
PTE V.10 Added min. troop reinforcement information

Re: Periodic Table of Elements V.10

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:43 pm
by iancanton
Donelladan wrote:If you put all nuclear (red and yellow ) neutrals, the whole actinoids line become neutral, thus it will probably be ignored most of the time.

if u don't make the yellow radioactives start neutral, then someone is likely to start with a bonus.

HitRed wrote:our discussions haven't covered players avoiding them like the plague.

DoomYoshi wrote:they should be low neutrals like 1 or 2.

players won't necessarily avoid the yellow radioactives like the plague if they start as n1 neutrals and they need only 3 for a +1 bonus. we do, however, need to guard against making them so attractive that players spend a disproportionate amount of each game fighting for elements that are not only non-existent except in laboratories, but whose names are largely unknown even to scientifically-aware players.

does putting 57-La and 89-Ac in the main part of the matrix, as below, improve the look of the map without creating more confusion?

Click image to enlarge.
image


ian. :)

Re: Periodic Table of Elements V.10

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:51 pm
by HitRed
DoomYoshi wrote "they should be low neutrals like 1 or 2."

Iancanton wrote "players won't necessarily avoid the yellow radioactives like the plague if they start as n1 neutrals and they need only 3 for a +1 bonus. we do, however, need to guard against making them so attractive that players spend a disproportionate amount of each game fighting for (these) elements"


Lets solve the problem with both. Most would start n1. To avoid being too attractive 1 out of every 3 is a n2. So 93, 95, 98, 101, 104, 107, 110, 112, 115 are n2. 118 being Russia would be n3. As would the 94 USA. All other yellow nuclear would be n1. So, medium, easy, easy, if your attacking across the board 96, 97, 98. Note: 43 and 61 are in other areas and will be n3)

It's also possible to start two of these as not neutral. Avoiding the starting bonus and allowing players to start something on the bottom level.

HitRed

Re: Periodic Table of Elements V.10

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:26 am
by Dukasaur
iancanton wrote:
Donelladan wrote:If you put all nuclear (red and yellow ) neutrals, the whole actinoids line become neutral, thus it will probably be ignored most of the time.

if u don't make the yellow radioactives start neutral, then someone is likely to start with a bonus.


I don't think people starting with a bonus once in a while is an existential crisis. I know people like to cry when their opponent gets one, but soon enough the wheel turns and they will be the ones getting a bonus in another game.

Re: Periodic Table of Elements V.11

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:43 pm
by HitRed
Image
PTE V.11 Made the connections between the main map and the Lanthanoids & Actinoids easier to understand. Enlarged connecting numbers.

Re: Periodic Table of Elements

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:23 pm
by DoomYoshi
I agree that it is easier to understand.

Re: Periodic Table of Elements

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:47 am
by Donelladan
I think it's way too small...
Think about people playing on a phone.
I don't think the previous version was that difficult to understand.

Re: Periodic Table of Elements

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:33 pm
by HitRed
Donelladan wrote:I don't think the previous version was that difficult to understand.


I like the old one also. Let's see what other think.

HitRed

Re: Periodic Table of Elements

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:50 pm
by IcePack
I understand both but like the new aesthetics

Re: Periodic Table of Elements

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:56 pm
by HitRed
Continent bonus update

Method if people are interested.
Total troops defending the bonus IF you owned none of the bonus to start * .33 since you own a third of the terr. (normally) in a two player game - all interior bonuses if you owned the whole bonus + 2 if most terr starts neutral in that bonus to encourage players to try for the area.

Alkali (17/6) rounded up to 6

Alkali 6
Alkaline 6
Lanthanoids 12
Actinoids 10
Transition metals light gray 6
Transition metals purple 7
Transition metals tan 5
Transition metals dark gray 3
Post-transition 10
Metalloids 7 (some terr are non contiguous so 6 troops added to the equation above)
Other non metals 8 (some terr are non contiguous so 6 troops added to the equation above)
Noble gases 7

Flags and hinges n3
Red nuclear start n1
Yellow nuclear start n1 or n2. 2/3 start n1, 1/3 start n2 (43 and 61 will remain n3)
This will balance out the continent bonuses based on the troops you have to fight. All are hard to defend.

Yes, the nuclear will start neutral to avoid the unbalanced start. I got burned on the England map. He got 5 instead of 3 first turn and first attack.

I'll update the map soon.

Re: Periodic Table of Elements V.12

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:51 pm
by HitRed
Image
PTE V.12

Updated continent bonuses and a few minor bonuses. Continents are now worth fighting for.

Re: Periodic Table of Elements V.12b with starting neutrals

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:21 pm
by HitRed
Image
PTE V.12b with starting neutrals updated reds are now n1. Post transition metals now worth 10.

Flags and hinges start n3
Red nuclear start n1
Yellow nuclear start either n3, n2 or n1. Mostly n1

Re: Periodic Table of Elements

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:20 am
by Donelladan
I say we should put the map on beta so that we can test the game play.

I personally think having the yellow nuclear has non-neutral is more interesting.

Also why do you put red nuclear as neutral ? no one is going to take decaying regions

Re: Periodic Table of Elements

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:55 am
by HitRed
Donelladan wrote:
Also why do you put red nuclear as neutral ? no one is going to take decaying regions


Reduced the red neutrals to 1. They will be taken IF players want to go for continent bonus. To help I increased the worth of the continent bonuses so players will go for the continents.

After getting burned on the United Kingdom map by another player starting with bonus and first attack I want to avoid extra troops during the drop.

HitRed

Re: Periodic Table of Elements

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:54 pm
by Vlasov
I would love to play this map! How soon can it be Beta?

Would it be possible to show Gallium(31) as a liquid? I realize it's solid at "room temperature" but its melting point is 30C/86F (below human body temperature). You can hold pure gallium in your hand, and it melts! And maybe the liquid bonus could be +2 instead of +1. Just a thought.