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[Abandoned] - Switzerland

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[Abandoned] - Switzerland

Postby wcaclimbing on Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:59 pm

Mod Note:Abandoned - If resurrected, this one must be checked again.

v46
I didn't make any major changes, just a few small things.
1. made the borders darker
2. made the river darker and more chalk-like
3. made the mountains purple like they were on Kap's version.

What do you guys think of it?
Click image to enlarge.
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v original post v

[Draft][Gameplay]
Large
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Small
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XML:
Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<map>         
   <title>Switzerland</title>
   <smallwidth>186</smallwidth>
   <smallheight>47</smallheight>
   <largewidth>233</largewidth>
   <largeheight>58</largeheight>
   <filetype>jpg</filetype>
<continent>
   <name>Northeast Switzerland</name>
   <bonus>5</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Aargau</territory>
      <territory>Appenzell</territory>
      <territory>Sankt Gallen</territory>
      <territory>Schaffhausen</territory>
      <territory>Thurgau</territory>
      <territory>Zug</territory>
    <territory>Zürich</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Inner Switzerland</name>
   <bonus>4</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Glarus</territory>
      <territory>Luzern</territory>
      <territory>Schwyz</territory>
      <territory>Unter-Walden</territory>
      <territory>Uri</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Graubunden</name>
   <bonus>2</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Chur</territory>
      <territory>Sankt Mortiz</territory>
      <territory>Scuol</territory>
      <territory>Ticino</territory>
      <territory>Thusis</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Bern Dominion</name>
   <bonus>4</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Basel</territory>
      <territory>Bern</territory>
      <territory>Bienne</territory>
      <territory>Brig</territory>
      <territory>Solothun</territory>
    <territory>Thun</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Romandie</name>
   <bonus>4</bonus>
   <components>
    <territory>Fribourg</territory>
      <territory>Genève</territory>
      <territory>Jura</territory>
      <territory>Lausanne</territory>
      <territory>Neuchâtel</territory>
      <territory>Sion</territory>
    <territory>Vaud</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<territory>
   <name>Aargau</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Basel</border>
   <border>Zug</border
   <border>Zürich</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>288</smallx>
     <smally>107</smally>
     <largex>361</largex>
     <largey>128</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Appenzell</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Sankt Gallen</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>426</smallx>
     <smally>132</smally>
     <largex>533</largex>
     <largey>160</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Basel</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Aargau</border>
   <border>Solothurn</border
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>232</smallx>
     <smally>102</smally>
     <largex>291</largex>
     <largey>122</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Bienne</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Bern</border>
   <border>Jura</border
   <border>Neuchâtel</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>172</smallx>
     <smally>155</smally>
     <largex>216</largex>
     <largey>188</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Bern</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Bienne</border>
   <border>Brig</border
   <border>Luzern</border>
     <border>Fribourg</border>
     <border>Thun</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>230</smallx>
     <smally>178</smally>
     <largex>288</largex>
     <largey>217</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Brig</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Bern</border>
   <border>Sion</border>
   <border>Ticino</border>
     <border>Uri</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>242</smallx>
     <smally>319</smally>
     <largex>303</largex>
     <largey>393</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Chur</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Sankt Gallen</border>
   <border>Sankt Mortiz</border
   <border>Scuol</border>
     <border>Thusis</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>462</smallx>
     <smally>196</smally>
     <largex>579</largex>
     <largey>240</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Chur</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Sankt Gallen</border>
   <border>Sankt Mortiz</border
   <border>Scuol</border>
     <border>Thusis</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
     <smallx>462</smallx>
     <smally>196</smally>
     <largex>579</largex>
     <largey>240</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Fribourg</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Bern</border>
   <border>Vaud</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>164</smallx>
   <smally>219</smally>
   <largex>206</largex>
   <largey>268</largey>   
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Genêve</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Vaud</border>
  </borders>
  <coordinates>
   <smallx>42</smallx>
   <smally>319</smally>
   <largex>54</largex>
   <largey>393</largey>   
  </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Glarus</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Sankt Gallen</border>
   <border>Schwyz</border
   <border>Uri</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>386</smallx>
   <smally>176</smally>
   <largex>484</largex>
   <largey>214</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Jura</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Bienne</border>
   <border>Neuchâtel</border
   <border>Solothurn</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>179</smallx>
   <smally>125</smally>
   <largex>225</largex>
   <largey>151</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Lausanne</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Vaud</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>105</smallx>
   <smally>268</smally>
   <largex>132</largex>
   <largey>330</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Luzern</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Bern</border>
   <border>Schwyz</border
   <border>Unter-Walden</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>280</smallx>
   <smally>159</smally>
   <largex>351</largex>
   <largey>193</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Neuchátel</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Bienne</border>
   <border>Jura</border
   <border>Vaud</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>138</smallx>
   <smally>173</smally>
   <largex>174</largex>
   <largey>211</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Sankt Gallen</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Appenzell</border>
   <border>Chur</border
   <border>Thurgau</border>
     <border>Zürich</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>392</smallx>
   <smally>137</smally>
   <largex>491</largex>
   <largey>166</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Sankt Mortiz</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Chur</border>
   <border>Scuol</border
   <border>Thusis</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>472</smallx>
   <smally>260</smally>
   <largex>591</largex>
   <largey>319</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Schaffhausen</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Thurgau</border>
   <border>Zürich</border
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>337</smallx>
   <smally>60</smally>
   <largex>422</largex>
   <largey>70</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Schwyz</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Glarus</border>
   <border>Luzern</border
   <border>Sankt Gallen</border>
   <border>Unter-Walden</border>
   <border>Uri</border>
   <border>Zug</border>
   <border>Zürich
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>364</smallx>
   <smally>166</smally>
   <largex>456</largex>
   <largey>202</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Scuol</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Chur</border>
   <border>Sankt Mortiz</border
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>492</smallx>
   <smally>237</smally>
   <largex>616</largex>
   <largey>291</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Sion</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Brig</border>
   <border>Vaud</border
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>182</smallx>
   <smally>345</smally>
   <largex>228</largex>
   <largey>426</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Solothurn</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Basel</border>
   <border>Bienne</border
   <border>Jura</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>215</smallx>
   <smally>115</smally>
   <largex>270</largex>
   <largey>138</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Thun</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Bern</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>225</smallx>
   <smally>181</smally>
   <largex>282</largex>
   <largey>221</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Thurgau</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Sankt Gallen</border>
   <border>Schaffhausen</border
   <border>Zürich</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>416</smallx>
   <smally>84</smally>
   <largex>521</largex>
   <largey>100</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Thusis</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Chur</border>
   <border>Sankt Mortiz</border
   <border>Ticino</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>417</smallx>
   <smally>251</smally>
   <largex>522</largex>
   <largey>308</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Ticino</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Brig</border>
   <border>Thusis</border
   <border>Uri</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>360</smallx>
   <smally>308</smally>
   <largex>451</largex>
   <largey>379</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Unter-Walden</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Luzern</border>
   <border>Schwyz</border
   <border>Uri</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>315</smallx>
   <smally>190</smally>
   <largex>395</largex>
   <largey>232</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Uri</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Glarus</border>
   <border>Schwyz</border
   <border>Ticino</border>
   <border>Unter-Walden</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>334</smallx>
   <smally>219</smally>
   <largex>418</largex>
   <largey>268</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Vaud</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Fribourg</border>
   <border>Genève</border
   <border>Lusanne</border>
   <border>Neuchâtel</border>
   <border>Sion</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>114</smallx>
      <smally>227</smally>
      <largex>144</largex>
      <largey>278</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Zug</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Aargau</border>
   <border>Zürich</border
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>334</smallx>
   <smally>162</smally>
   <largex>419</largex>
   <largey>197</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>Zürich</name>
   <borders>
     <border>Aargau</border>
   <border>Sankt Gallen</border>
   <border>Schaffhausen</border>
   <border>Thurgau</border>
   <border>Zug</border>
  </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>342</smallx>
   <smally>120</smally>
   <largex>428</largex>
   <largey>145</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
</map>


A rough to-do list for us tomorrow:
  • move some borders around
  • move some names around (this and ^ are to accomodate 100s mostly)
  • clarify Thurgau-Scheffhausen connection
  • clarify Bienne-Bern connection
  • get rid of mt. dots
  • extend Vaud mts. a bit North
  • change "North-East Switzerland" to "Northeast …"

-------------------------Previous Versions----------------------------------
[v35]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r315/wcaclimbing/example3.png
[v43-44] http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r315/wcaclimbing/example2.png
[v42] http://i37.tinypic.com/8yatrb.jpg
[v41] http://i34.tinypic.com/ei2lae.jpg
[v40] http://i34.tinypic.com/2ptugr7.jpg
[v39] http://i35.tinypic.com/211uqur.jpg
v38a) http://i38.tinypic.com/mllgjo.jpg
v38b) http://i34.tinypic.com/34doikp.jpg
v38c) http://i38.tinypic.com/wqzv3l.jpg
v38d) http://i36.tinypic.com/qs9wrl.jpg
[v37] http://i38.tinypic.com/ekhsgm.jpg
[v36] http://i36.tinypic.com/1fd3zs.jpg
[v32] http://i38.tinypic.com/20tnt41.jpg
[v31] http://i38.tinypic.com/b870uc.jpg
[v29-l] http://i25.tinypic.com/2076kaf.jpg
[v29-s] http://i30.tinypic.com/67485y.jpg
[v30-ugly!] http://i27.tinypic.com/34znd6g.jpg
[v28-l] http://i26.tinypic.com/334ki1f.jpg
[v28-s] http://i26.tinypic.com/2mnr9kg.jpg
[v27] http://i25.tinypic.com/345en13.jpg
[v26a] http://i32.tinypic.com/adov0n.jpg
[v26b] http://i32.tinypic.com/nphsv5.jpg
[v26c ] http://i25.tinypic.com/oirlhs.jpg
[v25] http://i32.tinypic.com/2hgx17l.jpg
[v24] http://i32.tinypic.com/adov0n.jpg
[v23a] http://i30.tinypic.com/2ly0phc.jpg
[v23b] http://i26.tinypic.com/29573g2.jpg
[v23c] http://i26.tinypic.com/2hcepgm.jpg
[v22] http://i30.tinypic.com/2cyfdy.jpg
[v21a] http://i29.tinypic.com/nyfeom.jpg
[v21b] http://i32.tinypic.com/2qsbcp3.jpg
[v20] http://i31.tinypic.com/21dqwl4.jpg
[v19a] http://i27.tinypic.com/2nur8yp.jpg
[v19b] http://i32.tinypic.com/1zhwyt.jpg
[v18] http://i31.tinypic.com/2i06lbq.jpg
[v17] http://i25.tinypic.com/2ecfcqp.jpg
[v16] http://i31.tinypic.com/35btmj5.jpg
[v15] http://i29.tinypic.com/1z589k1.jpg
[v14] http://i26.tinypic.com/nxuj5e.jpg
[v12] http://i30.tinypic.com/r1a550.jpg
[v11] http://i32.tinypic.com/2a5k66a.jpg
[v10] http://i28.tinypic.com/29zpid2.jpg
[v09] http://i29.tinypic.com/mkjk2a.jpg
[v08] http://i27.tinypic.com/2hq9bn8.jpg
[v07] http://i27.tinypic.com/9qbp94.jpg
[v06] http://i27.tinypic.com/2pota1e.jpg
[v05] http://i29.tinypic.com/2dsjpth.jpg
[v04] http://i27.tinypic.com/10q9awk.jpg
[v03] http://i26.tinypic.com/29ctgdf.jpg
[v02] http://i26.tinypic.com/r8xyyg.jpg
[v01] http://i26.tinypic.com/1z3847c.jpg
Last edited by wcaclimbing on Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:23 pm, edited 73 times in total.
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Re: Switzerland

Postby CatfishJohnson on Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:10 pm

wow nice start fo sho, i like the title sweet font, well hmm, instead of the grey borders, maybe put some mountians? i mean the reason switzerland is so inpenetrable is cause of those swiss alps, i would think it would give ur map a lil more realizum, the colors are all nice and distinguishable fo sho, looks good, nice start man..ah hmm maybe some like impassables some of those have a LOT of things u would hve to defend to hold, it is a mountainous country so thats what i got now, good stay bro
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Re: Switzerland

Postby TaCktiX on Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:02 pm

Very open map at present. I assume you're intending to add a few mountains in a country that is inundated with the Alps? The graphics otherwise are a good start.
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Re: Switzerland

Postby Kaplowitz on Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:27 am

I was thinking about adding mountains, but where? I dont want to add them just for the hell of it.
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Re: Switzerland

Postby t-o-m on Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:58 am

have a look at positions of mountains in switzerland on websites, then add them in corrosponding positions, although they probably would go through and cover some whole territories, you cant be 100% accurate.
definitely immpassables as others have stated and you probably have also planned.
great graphics.

also, could there be some sort of bonus for holding Zurich - sorry, not sure about the spelling

i dont know much about switzerland, you could do some research into what kind of public transport they may use, i know that their trains are very accurate and very good, so you might want to include a train system to link some terits, or an underground system - like tube in london - and subway in the US. I also dont know about how many airports there are so i cant comment about linking terits with airports.
you could consider these and see what you think,

-tom
Last edited by t-o-m on Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Switzerland

Postby greenoaks on Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:19 pm

wouldn't everyone who played it get an overwhelming urge to make a peace treaty with their neighbours ?

why do you have 30 terts ? there are 23 or 26 cantons depending on whether you count the 3 sets of Halb-Kantone's individually or together.
Last edited by greenoaks on Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Switzerland

Postby t-o-m on Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:56 pm

greenoaks wrote:wouldn't everyone who played it get an overwhelming urge to make a peace treaty with their neighbours ?


:lol: lol :lol:

remember - theyre not from switzerland, just playing it lol
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Re: Switzerland

Postby Kaplowitz on Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:38 pm

t-o-m wrote:have a look at positions of mountains in switzerland on websites, then add them in corrosponding positions, although they probably would go through and cover some whole territories, you cant be 100% accurate.
definitely immpassables as others have stated and you probably have also planned.
great graphics.

thats basically what i plan

also, could there be some sort of bonus for holding Zurich - sorry, not sure about the spelling

why?
i dont know much about switzerland, you could do some research into what kind of public transport they may use, i know that their trains are very accurate and very good, so you might want to include a train system to link some terits, or an underground system - like tube in london - and underground in the US. I also dont know about how many airports there are so i cant comment about linking terits with airports.
you could consider these and see what you think,
interesting ideas, ill consider it
-tom

greenoaks wrote:wouldn't everyone who played it get an overwhelming urge to make a peace treaty with their neighbours ?

If you want that true Switzerland feel, then sure! :wink: :lol:
why do you have 30 terts ? there are 23 or 26 cantons depending on whether you count the 3 sets of Halb-Kantone's individually or together.
Because i wanted the number 30, so i added some cities as territories
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Re: Switzerland

Postby t-o-m on Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:52 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:
t-o-m wrote:also, could there be some sort of bonus for holding Zurich - sorry, not sure about the spelling

why?


just a suggestion
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Re: Switzerland v2--April 6--

Postby Kaplowitz on Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:03 pm

v2
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-Added mts using this map:
http://orbat.com/site/maps/map_files/sw ... rbases.gif
-Made bonuses using WM's Bonus maker
-Cut some of the text in half and brought them to the next line for neatness
-Brought the borders layer under the continent color layers, so that the glow around the borders are the color of the continent

Mts good or too shiny? Are they in a good spot?
Are the bonuses good?
Any gfx concerns?
Any game-play concerns?
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Re: Switzerland v2--April 6--

Postby t-o-m on Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:08 pm

still fairly open, thats ok though.
mountains are orange? why? they're not too shiney though.

i havnt taken a look at the bonuses because i cant see the whole image and i cba fixing my screen resolutions..
the map is a little dark, you could perhaps make it lighter and hold a poll to see whether people prefer lighter or darker.

what is this widow makers' bonus maker tool?
can you send me a link please?
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Re: Switzerland v2--April 6--

Postby Kaplowitz on Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:11 pm

t-o-m wrote:still fairly open, thats ok though.
mountains are orange? why? they're not too shiney though.
They were meant to be brown, i will fix that.

i havnt taken a look at the bonuses because i cant see the whole image and i cba fixing my screen resolutions..
the map is a little dark, you could perhaps make it lighter and hold a poll to see whether people prefer lighter or darker.
Copy it into a new page

what is this widow makers' bonus maker tool?
can you send me a link please?
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1410 here are the map making tools, its on that list.
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Re: Switzerland v2--April 6--

Postby TaCktiX on Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:17 pm

The mountains are a good start. Yes, dull their orange-ness some, but I like the direction this map is going.
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Re: Switzerland v2--April 6--

Postby Kaplowitz on Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:20 pm

How does this look?

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Re: Switzerland v3--April 6--

Postby t-o-m on Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:54 pm

they look a little bit..."rusty". i dont think thats the colour to use, maybe try a little less red in them, reduce the R in the RGB menu and browse some colours there.
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Re: Switzerland v3--April 6--

Postby Kaplowitz on Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:01 pm

sry guys, cant really get on except for weekends. Ill change the red thing above, and keep the comments coming!


ps: new smilies? :shock: longer chins! just look at this one: :lol:
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Re: Switzerland v3--April 6--

Postby t-o-m on Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:18 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:ps: new smilies? :shock: longer chins! just look at this one: :lol:

umm, is that new?
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Re: Switzerland v3--April 6--

Postby Kaplowitz on Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:20 pm

maybe its IE, but the chins werent always that long

/threadjack
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Re: Switzerland v3--April 6--

Postby t-o-m on Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:29 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:maybe its IE, but the chins werent always that long

/threadjack

IE?
/threadjack?

ok this is going off-topic, and you know what happens to threads like that...
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Re: Switzerland v3--April 6--

Postby Kaplowitz on Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:31 pm

t-o-m wrote:
Kaplowitz wrote:maybe its IE, but the chins werent always that long

/threadjack

IE?
/threadjack?


IE: Internet Explorer. I usually use Firfox.

Threadjack: going off topic, "/" is the end part of bbc code (like "/color")
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Re: Switzerland v3--April 6--

Postby ZeakCytho on Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:38 pm

This map looks like it has a lot of promise. My biggest suggestion now would be to do something with all that gray space in the background. It doesn't even need to be anything fancy - maybe just a subtle texture, or maybe draw in the borders of neighboring nations and put their names, or something. It just looks a tad boring now.

I love the title font!
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Re: Switzerland v3--April 6--

Postby t-o-m on Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:56 pm

i still think its a bit dark,
and the yellow - where you've made it light, it looks a little..umm...green, just a little,
again if you go to the RGB chart and reduce the G factor by a little bit this can be solved, it might just be my monitor, what do others see?

[edit]
now i see the NEW smilies!! haha theyre good,

anyway back on topic,
yes your map is excelent
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Re: Switzerland v3--April 6--

Postby Kaplowitz on Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:08 am

I will do the above things.

and whats up with these: :ugeek: :geek:
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Re: Switzerland v3--April 6--

Postby t-o-m on Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:11 am

Kaplowitz wrote:I will do the above things.

and whats up with these: :ugeek: :geek:

whats not with those things! i like em!

when is your next update going to be?
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Re: Switzerland v3--April 6--

Postby Kaplowitz on Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:00 pm

weekends are prime update time
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