The Bison King wrote:The East Asia revamp.
We weren't talking about that here.
The Bison King wrote:The CA's, and... actually I don't know, how do you become a CA?
Iancanton is one of the best CA:s, yet he's never made a map himself.
Being a CA is not equal to mapmaking prowess.
Besides, some of the latest "surprise" maps were made by the Entertainment team with no input from the CA:s or anyone from the foundry. How is that reasonable in any way?
The Bison King wrote:I guess here we just have a fundamental difference of opinion. You seem to view the foundry process as the only way, well or the best way really. Sure I agree that for most people especially when they're volunteers it does serve to improve their work, but I don't view this as an inherent truth for all maps and map makers.
Well, the evidence is on my side I'm afraid. Look at any surprise map, the majority of them are of inferior quality to the average foundry map.
For another point, look at the maps that were made by lack's friend demonart before the foundry existed. Far east (the old one) being one. USA is another. Those are examples of maps made by a (supposedly) "professional designer" without feedback or input from a peer-review system like the foundry.
The fact that mapmakers are volunteers has nothing to do with anything. Many people here who make maps are very skilled and experienced at both graphics and gameplay design. Look at Dim or Kabanellas, they create very good looking maps, most with great gameplay. Yet, even they need the input from the foundry process to perfect their work.
If you show me one mapmaker who has made a map that required no further improving after the first draft, then we can just appoint that person to create all the behind-the-scenes maps. Until then, the foundry process should be involved in creating them.
The Bison King wrote:Do you think that it was the pope's nit picks and micro management that made the Sistine chapel great? Or how about the impressionist painters?
That's totally irrelevant. You seem to think of mapmaking as an art where you can freely express yourself. When in fact it is more of a collaborative process. Sure, there are some parts where you do get to explore your artistic skills, but those need to be subservient to the larger process.
A painter, or any artist, can easily just follow his own vision and create what he wants according to his own views. There's no such thing as "bad" when it comes to art, and any piece of art can be argued to have intrinsic value in that it is an expression of something the artist wants to express. The same is not
true for mapmaking... we do have standards to uphold, and we have a peer-review process in place to ensure those standards are upheld. We don't allow anyone to just create anything they want simply to let them express themselves. Like said... mapmaking is not a right.