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Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:16 pm
by natty dread
DiM wrote:you're saying that the great thing about CC having 200+ maps is that it caters something for everyone.
desau says the best thing about landgrab is that it allows any map cause it caters something for everyone. :)


Yeah that's not really the same thing...

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:54 am
by Gillipig
natty dread wrote:
Gillipig wrote:it's not good for anyone if we just pump them all out at roughly the same time!


How do you know that? Are there lots of people somewhere complaining that we shouldn't "pump out maps" at the same time, that I'm not aware of?

Frankly, you're the first person I've heard to complain about this. Either way, only few people actively play all the beta maps that come out, and those people usually have no problem with playing lots of them at once. Most people just pick those maps they like, or find interesting, and then play them. Which is also fine.

The argument seems similar to the one that some people make that we should limit the amount of new maps or take down some old maps. In both cases the idea seems to be that there's some inherent value in scarcity, like if there's less of some thing it makes it more valuable... which may be true about gold and other such commodities. However, when it comes to abstract things like maps, this just isn't the case - in fact, there's more value in diversity: everyone gets to choose what they like, which is the best thing about CC - it caters something for everyone.

Artificial scarcity is never a good long-time strategy.

You're basically saying that it doesn't matter when maps are released to beta just as long as they do get released to beta. So if we released all maps that are created in a year during a period of two months you don't think that would have any negative effects? And yes I'm saying the opposite. When you release maps to beta matters a lot!

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:08 am
by DiM
when lack is going to implement a system that allows the foreman to upload the maps himself, then we'll get faster uploads and shorter waiting times.
sometimes a map is finished and waits for a whole month before it's uploaded and sometimes it takes 1 week.
and that's not the biggest problem.
the thing that annoys me the most is what happens in beta. let's say a map gets released and it has a mistake in the xml that screws over all the games. the mapmaker might actually fix that within a couple of hours from the release but it can take 2 or more weeks before lack uploads the updated file.
and in that whole time the players get frustrated, the mapmakers get frustrated and the map is hurt because for 2 weeks very few people will play it and those that do will only do it once.

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:14 am
by natty dread
DiM wrote:let's say a map gets released and it has a mistake in the xml


Well, you get what you pay for... if you get a drunken hobo to write your XML, you can't expect a dazzling quality of work ;)

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:19 am
by DiM
natty dread wrote:
DiM wrote:let's say a map gets released and it has a mistake in the xml


Well, you get what you pay for... if you get a drunken hobo to write your XML, you can't expect a dazzling quality of work ;)

a drunken hobo writes the xml and then another drunken hobo pretends to check it and this is how the map is released with a mistake.

then the first hobo is bribed with a six-pack by the map maker to fix the problem so he does it withing the first hours of the release. but for what? the new xml won't be uploaded for weeks.

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:28 am
by natty dread
Well to the drunken hobo's defense, neutrals weren't checked at that point, and in fact the drunken hobo suggested the change to the xml checking routine (that you have to provide an image with neutrals) for this very reason...

Anyway, I agree that maps should be uploaded faster, and it's been asked for a long time from lackattack to implement a system that lets the CA:s or foreman upload them himself, but then, when has lackattack ever given a shit about the mapmakers? It's apparently much more important to create money-making tournaments and focus on advertising rather than actually improving the site...

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:41 am
by koontz1973
natty dread wrote:lackattack to implement a system that lets the CA:s or foreman upload them himself,


Problem with this is what happens when the drunken hobo becomes the foreman and uploads last month playboy for us to play on. ;) It is not surprising that he keeps this for himself but a tad quicker would be nice and even implement beta changes at the weekend.

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:50 am
by DiM
koontz1973 wrote:
natty dread wrote:lackattack to implement a system that lets the CA:s or foreman upload them himself,


Problem with this is what happens when the drunken hobo becomes the foreman and uploads last month playboy for us to play on. ;) It is not surprising that he keeps this for himself but a tad quicker would be nice and even implement beta changes at the weekend.


that's precisely the kind of thought that made CC stagnate for all these years while the competition improves more and more.

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:57 am
by koontz1973
All sites have there ups and downs. At some point when the competition gets better, we will see a flurry of improvements to get us ahead again. So many things have been asked for that lack is more than likely wondering which to give us first. It is just the nature of things. We all sit back and rest on our laurels when things are good. But I am sure the turtle will give us more toys this year to play with.

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:13 am
by natty dread
koontz1973 wrote:
natty dread wrote:lackattack to implement a system that lets the CA:s or foreman upload them himself,


Problem with this is what happens when the drunken hobo becomes the foreman and uploads last month playboy for us to play on. ;) It is not surprising that he keeps this for himself but a tad quicker would be nice and even implement beta changes at the weekend.


That's a piss-poor excuse. If lackattack didn't trust his foreman to do the job he does then why put him in that position in the first place.

koontz1973 wrote:At some point when the competition gets better, we will see a flurry of improvements to get us ahead again.


You'd think...

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:48 am
by thenobodies80
DiM wrote:when lack is going to implement a system that allows the foreman to upload the maps himself, then we'll get faster uploads and shorter waiting times.
sometimes a map is finished and waits for a whole month before it's uploaded and sometimes it takes 1 week.
and that's not the biggest problem.
the thing that annoys me the most is what happens in beta. let's say a map gets released and it has a mistake in the xml that screws over all the games. the mapmaker might actually fix that within a couple of hours from the release but it can take 2 or more weeks before lack uploads the updated file.
and in that whole time the players get frustrated, the mapmakers get frustrated and the map is hurt because for 2 weeks very few people will play it and those that do will only do it once.


Just to let you know.....It's at least 4 months that I'm asking (and waiting) such tool. :roll:

koontz1973 wrote:Problem with this is what happens when the drunken hobo becomes the foreman and uploads last month playboy for us to play on.


We (admins and myself) already find an agreement for this issue, so it's not a problem at all. ;)

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:51 am
by DiM
thenobodies80 wrote:Just to let you know.....It's at least 4 months that I'm asking (and waiting) such tool. :roll:


4 months? pff. that's like yesterday in lack's terms.
he's ignoring stuff that he promised years ago so 4 months is nothing.

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:12 am
by thenobodies80
DiM wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:Just to let you know.....It's at least 4 months that I'm asking (and waiting) such tool. :roll:


4 months? pff. that's like yesterday in lack's terms.
he's ignoring stuff that he promised years ago so 4 months is nothing.


I know....but afterall he is a turtle! :mrgreen:

Image

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:42 am
by koontz1973
That's just too funny.

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:55 pm
by Gillipig
thenobodies80 wrote:
DiM wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:Just to let you know.....It's at least 4 months that I'm asking (and waiting) such tool. :roll:


4 months? pff. that's like yesterday in lack's terms.
he's ignoring stuff that he promised years ago so 4 months is nothing.


I know....but afterall he is a turtle! :mrgreen:

Image

Image
I which a cheetah would've created this site :D!

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:41 pm
by DiM
Gillipig wrote:I which a cheetah would've created this site :D!


i which to know wish is witch. or something like that :lol:

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:37 am
by Gillipig
DiM wrote:
Gillipig wrote:I which a cheetah would've created this site :D!


i which to know wish is witch. or something like that :lol:

:cry:

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:01 pm
by ViperOverLord
For posterity: Ended up being Island Of Doom.

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:40 pm
by lackattack
Hey guys,

I hear your frustrations with the slow rate progress. A tool to allow the foreman to upload graphics and xml is tricky to implement because it would have to check for a lot of things that I check for by hand (by using comparison software to show differences between old and new xmls). For example, if a change in territory order slips though, it could permanently screw up many games. This and the long overdue xml updates take programming time, which I never have enough of. I care a lot about the foundry and I understand how important the foundry is - I've just been overwhelmed.

But I have god news. I've started a Web Developer Hiring Process. Details will be made public once preparations have been finalized. But reinforcements are on their way and an era of plentiful updates for all departments awaits us...

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:26 pm
by Gillipig
lackattack wrote:Hey guys,

I hear your frustrations with the slow rate progress. A tool to allow the foreman to upload graphics and xml is tricky to implement because it would have to check for a lot of things that I check for by hand (by using comparison software to show differences between old and new xmls). For example, if a change in territory order slips though, it could permanently screw up many games. This and the long overdue xml updates take programming time, which I never have enough of. I care a lot about the foundry and I understand how important the foundry is - I've just been overwhelmed.

But I have god news. I've started a Web Developer Hiring Process. Details will be made public once preparations have been finalized. But reinforcements are on their way and an era of plentiful updates for all departments awaits us...

Wow that is very good news! I can't wait for that announcement! There are so many things that can be done to improve the site. So many things that would make it more fun and easier to use. 48 hour turn based games can keep players active even when they don't have much time. New tools for us to play with here in the foundry would really spark map making creativity. And there's a ton of other great suggestions. If there's one thing we don't run out of here it's suggestions :)! But for any of this to be implemented, we need more programming hours. So to hear this is certainly good news for anyone who wants more frequent updates!

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:19 pm
by natty dread
lackattack wrote:I hear your frustrations with the slow rate progress. A tool to allow the foreman to upload graphics and xml is tricky to implement because it would have to check for a lot of things that I check for by hand (by using comparison software to show differences between old and new xmls). For example, if a change in territory order slips though, it could permanently screw up many games.


You couldn't just let the foreman check those things? You should trust your own staff at least that much...

lackattack wrote:But I have god news. I've started a Web Developer Hiring Process. Details will be made public once preparations have been finalized. But reinforcements are on their way and an era of plentiful updates for all departments awaits us...


Well, we've been hearing about this web developer guy for about a year now. When is he going to actually materialize?

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see you posting here and I'm glad that you're at least aware of the problems. But we in the foundry have been hearing so many promises about so many things that are still "in progress" or "waiting" or "just around the corner"...

What I'm saying is, actions speak louder than words. ;)

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:31 pm
by AndyDufresne
natty dread wrote:
lackattack wrote:I hear your frustrations with the slow rate progress. A tool to allow the foreman to upload graphics and xml is tricky to implement because it would have to check for a lot of things that I check for by hand (by using comparison software to show differences between old and new xmls). For example, if a change in territory order slips though, it could permanently screw up many games.


You couldn't just let the foreman check those things? You should trust your own staff at least that much...


Lack does trust all his Volunteers and staff, but mistakes can be made. Right now, Nobodies and the other C.A.s perform checks, and then Lack independently runs his own to make sure everything is in working order. It ensures that your games won't be messed up. Eventually he would like to implement a tool that can do all the additional checks he does.

lackattack wrote:But I have god news. I've started a Web Developer Hiring Process. Details will be made public once preparations have been finalized. But reinforcements are on their way and an era of plentiful updates for all departments awaits us...


Well, we've been hearing about this web developer guy for about a year now. When is he going to actually materialize?

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see you posting here and I'm glad that you're at least aware of the problems. But we in the foundry have been hearing so many promises about so many things that are still "in progress" or "waiting" or "just around the corner"...

What I'm saying is, actions speak louder than words. ;)[/quote]

We hear you (the collective). We'll have more news.


--Andy

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:58 pm
by DiM
AndyDufresne wrote: Eventually he would like to implement a tool that can do all the additional checks he does.


they've cloned sheep, i'm pretty sure they could clone a turtle too.

i know you used to have a doll made from lack's hair. you could use a few of those hairs to get some dna :lol:

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:25 pm
by natty dread
AndyDufresne wrote:It ensures that your games won't be messed up.


Is this really that important? There's already a warning on beta games, and people know what they get into when they join/start games on beta maps. I'm not convinced that potential mistakes are a deal-breaker here, I'm sure they wouldn't be all that common anyway...

Re: Next map going beta?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:12 pm
by MrBenn
natty dread wrote:
lackattack wrote:I hear your frustrations with the slow rate progress. A tool to allow the foreman to upload graphics and xml is tricky to implement because it would have to check for a lot of things that I check for by hand (by using comparison software to show differences between old and new xmls). For example, if a change in territory order slips though, it could permanently screw up many games.


You couldn't just let the foreman check those things? You should trust your own staff at least that much...


I thought the whole point of the foundry team was to check the maps and xml etc. The only time the territory order has got out of sync was with the British Isles revamp. Since realising it was important, it's been made sure that territory order remains unchanged for altered xmls. It would be a lot more efficient to give the foundry team the tools to do their job properly so that any errors don't require the neverending wait before being repaired.
lackattack wrote:But I have god news. I've started a Web Developer Hiring Process. Details will be made public once preparations have been finalized. But reinforcements are on their way and an era of plentiful updates for all departments awaits us...

I'll believe that when I see it. We've been waiting since you first announced that (Coming Soon... Web Developer) back on April 26th 2010. Two years is a long time to wait - especially in the age of the internet.