Worrying trends in the foundry

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Re: Worrying trends in the foundry

Postby natty dread on Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:14 pm

Gillipig wrote:Maybe the foundry needs it's own "society of cooks" forum? There, new mapmakers who are trying to learn the basics of map making and not actually trying to make a map yet, could get all the help they need and be treated in a more gentle way


There are several flaws in this idea.

Firstly, the SoC teaches people to play a game. There's no harm in it if they fail to learn and lose a game or two - they can take a more relaxed attitude with it, because even if the students fail that doesn't f*ck up anything in the long term. Here in the foundry though, if a mapmaker fails and everyone is just being too nice about it to say anything negative, then the result is a failed map.

Secondly, creating a play-pen for new mapmakers where they are treated with kiddie gloves and wrapped in swaddling is just going to cause a culture shock when they migrate to the foundry and are faced with honest criticism and feedback. It's better that they learn to deal with the feedback system from the start, and learn to accept criticism. We really don't need any mapmakers who are unable to take criticism to their work.

Gillipig wrote:I think it would be a nice way to "lure" more players into mapmaking


Do we really need to "lure" more people into mapmaking? I think we get enough mapmakers as it is. Look at the main foundry, it's chock-full of map threads. The FF has a huge waiting list of maps on their way to beta.

Some people complain about the system, for various reasons, and give up mapmaking after their first attempt fails. Others struggle on, stay their course even when it's difficult, and ultimately succeed. The foundry is not for everyone, and I don't think we should make the process "easier", because the process is supposed to be difficult - it's supposed to challenge the mapmaker to do the best work he possibly can.
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Re: Worrying trends in the foundry

Postby DiM on Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:37 pm

natty dread wrote:
Gillipig wrote:I think it would be a nice way to "lure" more players into mapmaking


Do we really need to "lure" more people into mapmaking? I think we get enough mapmakers as it is. Look at the main foundry, it's chock-full of map threads. The FF has a huge waiting list of maps on their way to beta.


more people trying their hand at mapmaking is a good thing as long as they understand how the foundry works and are ready for months of hard work and critique.

what we need is more CAs to comment on maps and push them forward or kick them in the nuts and bin them.
right now most of the CAs barely post and simply wait to see how a map goes without bothering to interfere.
i as a veteran mapmaker find this rather frustrating so i can only imagine a new mapmaker feels even worse.
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Re: Worrying trends in the foundry

Postby natty dread on Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:02 pm

DiM wrote:more people trying their hand at mapmaking is a good thing as long as they understand how the foundry works and are ready for months of hard work and critique.


Exactly, what I'm saying is that we shouldn't try to "lure" them in with false promises.
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Re: Worrying trends in the foundry

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:16 pm

DiM wrote:what we need is more CAs to comment on maps and push them forward or kick them in the nuts and bin them.


Right now we don't have so many CAs but we're working behind the scenes to reorganize things a bit. ;)

tbh I don't want a big number of CAs....instead of more CAs to comment I want CAs comment more...if you get what i mean. :P

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Re: Worrying trends in the foundry

Postby DiM on Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:22 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:
DiM wrote:what we need is more CAs to comment on maps and push them forward or kick them in the nuts and bin them.


Right now we don't have so many CAs but we're working behind the scenes to reorganize things a bit. ;)

tbh I don't want a big number of CAs....instead of more CAs to comment I want CAs comment more...if you get what i mean. :P



i'd like a lot of CAs who also comment a lot. but few CAs that comment a lot is still better than few CAs who comment a little. :mrgreen:
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Re: Worrying trends in the foundry

Postby cairnswk on Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:07 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:
DiM wrote:what we need is more CAs to comment on maps and push them forward or kick them in the nuts and bin them.


Right now we don't have so many CAs but we're working behind the scenes to reorganize things a bit. ;)

tbh I don't want a big number of CAs....instead of more CAs to comment I want CAs comment more...if you get what i mean. :P


So Gimil is gone from the list.
tnb80, the offer still stands!
Re your above statement...i beleive that 4 of each GP and GFX plus perhaps 2 XML checkers should be sufficient. This gives 1 of each to cover above what you have now for those who need a break.
The more reasonable quality help you have the better it is for everyone. :)
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Re: Worrying trends in the foundry

Postby MrBenn on Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:39 pm

DiM wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:
DiM wrote:what we need is more CAs to comment on maps and push them forward or kick them in the nuts and bin them.


Right now we don't have so many CAs but we're working behind the scenes to reorganize things a bit. ;)

tbh I don't want a big number of CAs....instead of more CAs to comment I want CAs comment more...if you get what i mean. :P



i'd like a lot of CAs who also comment a lot. but few CAs that comment a lot is still better than few CAs who comment a little. :mrgreen:

The Foundry doesn't need more CA's. It needs more people who have a good attitude to helping and supporting each other. It needs mapmakers who continue to push themselves to the edges of their ability and who can continue to improve the quality of their maps, and by extension, those of the site.

It's a real struggle to get good people who want the responsibility for no reward - the best people usually have other commitments and it's a pretty thankless task.
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Re: Worrying trends in the foundry

Postby DiM on Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:48 pm

MrBenn wrote:The Foundry doesn't need more CA's. It needs more people who have a good attitude to helping and supporting each other. It needs mapmakers who continue to push themselves to the edges of their ability and who can continue to improve the quality of their maps, and by extension, those of the site.


not much of that around here. most people either don't bother to push themselves or don't bother helping others push themselves.
the current trend is to either do the bare minimum for your map to pass or stick just to your threads and ignore everything else. or even both.

nobody can force people to post in other threads so the only thing that can be influenced is the will to improve and that can either come from inside or from a CA.
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Re: Worrying trends in the foundry

Postby greenoaks on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:11 pm

worrying trends?

the other day i asked natty for some help, and he gave it, twice. :D
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