Conquer Club

It has been said by some recently that the foundry isn't what it used to be and that the quality of maps on the whole is down.

While I'm not sure I agree with the statement, it got me to thinking. What if the foundry limited the number of maps that were produced? If only 1 map were allowed out per month it would force the best maps to make it out, make mapmakers produce quality work, and create more prestige for the monthly map.

This could be done by putting finished maps to a community vote every month.

not a good idea at all. if this were to happen i'm betting a lot of mapmakers would leave.

better quality maps can be obtained by getting more people to comment.
bring 100 people to give pertinent feedback constantly and you'll see the foundry produce masterpieces.

DiM wrote:not a good idea at all. if this were to happen i'm betting a lot of mapmakers would leave.

better quality maps can be obtained by getting more people to comment.
bring 100 people to give pertinent feedback constantly and you'll see the foundry produce masterpieces.

What if it were 2 maps a month?

And do you have a proposal to bring 100 dedicated people per map? I would think that some GC Medals would spark a little more interest, but that's just a medal hungry guy like me.

chapcrap wrote:It has been said by some recently that the foundry isn't what it used to be and that the quality of maps on the whole is down.

While I'm not sure I agree with the statement, it got me to thinking. What if the foundry limited the number of maps that were produced? If only 1 map were allowed out per month it would force the best maps to make it out, make mapmakers produce quality work, and create more prestige for the monthly map.

This could be done by putting finished maps to a community vote every month.

horrible Idea.. but there should be a committee of map guys + players that look at a map at each stage and signs off on it before it is moved up. And if this is how it currently happens then I suggest you add some mean players that have 10000+ games that are a little more discerning.

Because atm, I would say 10%-33% of all maps released have no business existing given the bar that has been set. But I mean thats ok, you guys have your system... right?

But look ahead, what happens in 3 years and there are 400 maps and a full 100 are utter crap... you will lose new members.

At least in my opinion.

The more maps the better.


Even if there are maps some people do not like, others do like them.

I hate baseball, but I know for sure many players like it.

For some reason I do not get tired of Arms Race

There always has to be a map that is played the most and a map that is played the least. If it gets through the process it should be here, and stay here.

chapcrap wrote:What if the foundry limited the number of maps that were produced? If only 1 map were allowed out per month it would force the best maps to make it out, make mapmakers produce quality work, and create more prestige for the monthly map.

This could be done by putting finished maps to a community vote every month.

Bad idea.

chapcrap wrote:And do you have a proposal to bring 100 dedicated people per map? I would think that some GC Medals would spark a little more interest, but that's just a medal hungry guy like me.

Yeah no. We don't want people who only comment because they want medals or some other reward, how could we trust the opinion of guys like that? Besides, people who contribute a lot to the foundry are already given medals periodically, and so far it hasn't attracted more people to the foundry.

army of nobunaga wrote:horrible Idea.. but there should be a committee of map guys + players that look at a map at each stage and signs off on it before it is moved up. And if this is how it currently happens then I suggest you add some mean players that have 10000+ games that are a little more discerning.

Yeah actually that kinda is how it currently happens. That "committee" is called "anyone who posts in the foundry". It works by allowing anyone to post feedback to maps that are in development.

And we also have the foundry mods. But how are we going to get any good foundry mods, when the admin requires you to be a team cc member to be in that position... and from those who would even want to be team cc members, those who aren't spineless yes-men, who aren't afraid to speak their opinion (which is kind of an important thing when it comes to commenting on maps and making sure the quality standards are upheld) are automatically disqualified, because those are not qualities that the admins want for team CC members. But I digress...

Besides the site admin actively trying to drive away the best mapmakers and foundry contributors by their idiotic policies, which kind of narrows the list of people already, there just aren't that many people who are willing to do so much work as the foundry requires, pro bono, just to help out the site produce better maps. Most people are pretty much "meh" when it comes to the foundry.

So, you know, that's the situation we have... you can go ahead and try to get more people interested in the foundry, or you can try to get the admin to listen to the needs of the mapmakers and the foundry community, I've pretty much given up on both at this point.

natty dread wrote:

chapcrap wrote:What if the foundry limited the number of maps that were produced? If only 1 map were allowed out per month it would force the best maps to make it out, make mapmakers produce quality work, and create more prestige for the monthly map.

This could be done by putting finished maps to a community vote every month.

Bad idea.

chapcrap wrote:And do you have a proposal to bring 100 dedicated people per map? I would think that some GC Medals would spark a little more interest, but that's just a medal hungry guy like me.

Yeah no. We don't want people who only comment because they want medals or some other reward, how could we trust the opinion of guys like that? Besides, people who contribute a lot to the foundry are already given medals periodically, and so far it hasn't attracted more people to the foundry.

army of nobunaga wrote:horrible Idea.. but there should be a committee of map guys + players that look at a map at each stage and signs off on it before it is moved up. And if this is how it currently happens then I suggest you add some mean players that have 10000+ games that are a little more discerning.

Yeah actually that kinda is how it currently happens. That "committee" is called "anyone who posts in the foundry". It works by allowing anyone to post feedback to maps that are in development.

And we also have the foundry mods. But how are we going to get any good foundry mods, when the admin requires you to be a team cc member to be in that position... and from those who would even want to be team cc members, those who aren't spineless yes-men, who aren't afraid to speak their opinion (which is kind of an important thing when it comes to commenting on maps and making sure the quality standards are upheld) are automatically disqualified, because those are not qualities that the admins want for team CC members. But I digress...

Besides the site admin actively trying to drive away the best mapmakers and foundry contributors by their idiotic policies, which kind of narrows the list of people already, there just aren't that many people who are willing to do so much work as the foundry requires, pro bono, just to help out the site produce better maps. Most people are pretty much "meh" when it comes to the foundry.

So, you know, that's the situation we have... you can go ahead and try to get more people interested in the foundry, or you can try to get the admin to listen to the needs of the mapmakers and the foundry community, I've pretty much given up on both at this point.

well man.. at least you said it and not me. Though I usually do.. It takes a yes man to help lead this community..

If you , IH, cairns, DiM, few others wanted you could hold this game hostage and force these changes... a mapmakers guild or a union.

But I am on the outside looking in, I am just the bad guy voice that people love to tune out.

Wish I could help more because I see where this is going with cc.

army of nobunaga wrote:If you , IH, cairns, DiM, few others wanted you could hold this game hostage and force these changes... a mapmakers guild or a union.

lol. i can already imagine us on strike outside lack's house

seriously now, that won't work. plenty of map makers left and the foundry didn't stop. there will always be new people ready to make some maps.
my interest in the foundry is at a really low point and i'm actually struggling to get my maps done and take a break from the foundry.
will this impact the foundry as a whole? not really.

DiM wrote:

army of nobunaga wrote:If you , IH, cairns, DiM, few others wanted you could hold this game hostage and force these changes... a mapmakers guild or a union.

lol. i can already imagine us on strike outside lack's house

seriously now, that won't work. plenty of map makers left and the foundry didn't stop. there will always be new people ready to make some maps.
my interest in the foundry is at a really low point and i'm actually struggling to get my maps done and take a break from the foundry.
will this impact the foundry as a whole? not really.

I think you guys have a larger base of support than you realize in the players. I know you do... how would all of it play out? I dunno.
Was just a thought. You mentioned the newer mapmakers.. well a lot of them are making utter rubbish... utterly.

But I am here to help in this thread not tear down. But unfortunately, I really am not in a position to help you guys in this case. All I can do is interject opinion here and there in a constructive manner that is not my norm on CC.

army of nobunaga wrote:

DiM wrote:

army of nobunaga wrote:If you , IH, cairns, DiM, few others wanted you could hold this game hostage and force these changes... a mapmakers guild or a union.

lol. i can already imagine us on strike outside lack's house

seriously now, that won't work. plenty of map makers left and the foundry didn't stop. there will always be new people ready to make some maps.
my interest in the foundry is at a really low point and i'm actually struggling to get my maps done and take a break from the foundry.
will this impact the foundry as a whole? not really.

I think you guys have a larger base of support than you realize in the players. I know you do... how would all of it play out? I dunno.
Was just a thought. You mentioned the newer mapmakers.. well a lot of them are making utter rubbish... utterly.

But I am here to help in this thread not tear down. But unfortunately, I really am not in a position to help you guys in this case. All I can do is interject opinion here and there in a constructive manner that is not my norm on CC.

there was a point when some really good mapmakers left CC and went to create majcom. was it a blow to the foundry? sure it was, but soon other people took their place. yes, at first the new people created rubbish maps but in time they learned and got better. nobody was born a map maker.

i suggested some time ago that the foundry creates a position of Events CA, and this guy starts organizing foundry based events and competitions like layer battles, sig and avvy contests, and stuff like that. such competitions would not only enhance the kills of the current map makers but perhaps attract new people in the map making scene. and that's not all, we need people to talk about gameplay, not just graphics so organize gameplay competitions where people submit a cool idea for a map with a simple sketch. and the best idea wins and then one of the veterans makes the graphics for that map.

Bad quality of maps ?

Its not, its a result of only a small hand full of the same people commenting, giving advice in the foundry, you know the foundy, under the closet in the old dusty box, where maps getting born. the place where no one comes by course its boring "we just wanna play the map, not looking at them for 5-6 months first, yawn"

people have to frequently come by, of their own interest and get involved in the progress, that will boost the quality, lure them whit rewards will course a disaster. 1 map a month ? wont work, what if we got 5-10 maps comming up ? whos last on the list then ? "ehhm you have to wait 10 month b4 its you turn, you got the shortest straw"

the foundry are not a isolated group working for their one interest, its a part of CC, and whit out it, CC got no future. If we all pull together the burden will be less and the fun greater, its supposed to be fun creating a map, not a burden.

So I would like to encourage you all, start whit in your clans, your forums, freind lists ect.ect. and gat them to visit the foundry and participate in peoples maps, nohting is to small, just showing positive interest is fuel for a map maker.

(you can all hang me now)

bedst wishes
Flap

Don't fix, what isn't broken.

Nola_Lifer wrote:Don't fix, what isn't broken.

Thanks for the contribution.

Flap you are right on man.
You are.

That cannot happen though or it would have already. And for years I have given people links to here to comment- so I agree and I have and will try.
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You guys know what I thought about today when I started up a chinese checkers game....
I was like " I cannot be a hipocrit because I might be the onlyone left on CC that still loves this map"

Then I was like, that is the solution! Listen... lack can run numbers. Let the players decide.

The lowest played map gets tossed into probation each month. If it is the lowest played map or in the bottom 5 two months in a row.. put it back in the foundry for revision or death.


Let the players decide... how fair is that?

army of nobunaga wrote:Flap you are right on man.
You are.

That cannot happen though or it would have already. And for years I have given people links to here to comment- so I agree and I have and will try.
------------------------------------------


You guys know what I thought about today when I started up a chinese checkers game....
I was like " I cannot be a hipocrit because I might be the onlyone left on CC that still loves this map"

Then I was like, that is the solution! Listen... lack can run numbers. Let the players decide.

The lowest played map gets tossed into probation each month. If it is the lowest played map or in the bottom 5 two months in a row.. put it back in the foundry for revision or death.


Let the players decide... how fair is that?

i already suggested the least played maps be withdrawn from live play. nobody agreed

DiM wrote:

army of nobunaga wrote:Flap you are right on man.
You are.

That cannot happen though or it would have already. And for years I have given people links to here to comment- so I agree and I have and will try.
------------------------------------------


You guys know what I thought about today when I started up a chinese checkers game....
I was like " I cannot be a hipocrit because I might be the onlyone left on CC that still loves this map"

Then I was like, that is the solution! Listen... lack can run numbers. Let the players decide.

The lowest played map gets tossed into probation each month. If it is the lowest played map or in the bottom 5 two months in a row.. put it back in the foundry for revision or death.


Let the players decide... how fair is that?

i already suggested the least played maps be withdrawn from live play. nobody agreed

I'll agree. I think that's a great suggestion. If a map is in the bottom 5 out of over 200 maps, it should be put on probation and stored somewhere dark.

chapcrap wrote:

DiM wrote:

army of nobunaga wrote:Flap you are right on man.
You are.

That cannot happen though or it would have already. And for years I have given people links to here to comment- so I agree and I have and will try.
------------------------------------------


You guys know what I thought about today when I started up a chinese checkers game....
I was like " I cannot be a hipocrit because I might be the onlyone left on CC that still loves this map"

Then I was like, that is the solution! Listen... lack can run numbers. Let the players decide.

The lowest played map gets tossed into probation each month. If it is the lowest played map or in the bottom 5 two months in a row.. put it back in the foundry for revision or death.


Let the players decide... how fair is that?

i already suggested the least played maps be withdrawn from live play. nobody agreed

I'll agree. I think that's a great suggestion. If a map is in the bottom 5 out of over 200 maps, it should be put on probation and stored somewhere dark.

In the future something like that would be necessary, what will be the limit CC can take ? 400 - 500 or more ?
Anohter solution could be make categories for the maps, and store those who dont get played much but still available for gamers who are nostalgic

Nola_Lifer wrote:Don't fix, what isn't broken.

Don't break, what isn't fixed.

-Sully

Victor Sullivan wrote:

Nola_Lifer wrote:Don't fix, what isn't broken.

Don't break, what isn't fixed.

-Sully

don't eat what is pooed

DiM wrote:

army of nobunaga wrote:Flap you are right on man.
You are.

That cannot happen though or it would have already. And for years I have given people links to here to comment- so I agree and I have and will try.
------------------------------------------


You guys know what I thought about today when I started up a chinese checkers game....
I was like " I cannot be a hipocrit because I might be the onlyone left on CC that still loves this map"

Then I was like, that is the solution! Listen... lack can run numbers. Let the players decide.

The lowest played map gets tossed into probation each month. If it is the lowest played map or in the bottom 5 two months in a row.. put it back in the foundry for revision or death.


Let the players decide... how fair is that?

i already suggested the least played maps be withdrawn from live play. nobody agreed

I really only read the forums once in a while now-a-days man.

But yeah I think this may be the way to go.

Think about it guys, if a map is not being played, it needs to come back into the system here for improvement. And if noone cares enough to improve it and noone cares enough to play it, then why do we have it?

army of nobunaga wrote:Think about it guys, if a map is not being played, it needs to come back into the system here for improvement. And if noone cares enough to improve it and noone cares enough to play it, then why do we have it?

Well said.

should I submit this to "sugestions"? I do not think I can get enough people riled up about this... many people in cc play 50 maps or less and that is it.. is this something worth me campaigning for?

and lets be frank.. I am not well loved here by the leaders... would it be better if one of you did it and I raised a storm?

I don't think removing maps will be much of a help. Having a map browser that organizes the maps into categories and lists statistics like number of games played and <<new idea, for me, anyway>> map ratings (like player ratings, details to be determined) would help users find maps they might enjoy without taking away maps that may be the favourites of just a few players.

Removing maps is a terrible idea. Crappy maps with clan support would remain (beef anyone?) and good, but quirky maps would be punished.

It also rewards the older maps that people are already familiar with and makes it difficult for new maps to get enough exposure to stick.