Too many maps?

by **Oneyed** on Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:49 pm

koontz1973 wrote:I do not like the idea, but it might be worth thinking of again, limiting the maps being made per map maker.
1 for new people.
2 for experienced map makers (5+ maps)
All other maps stay in the melting pot to be worked upon. Community can still give feedback, maps can still be worked on. But in the drafting room and main foundry, 1 or 2 maps max.
The main foundry would look a lot less cluttered if we removed a lot of the maps and it would stop a lot of waste. This alone would slow down map production.

this is the worst idea here and this idea will solve nothing. the new mapmakers can have better ideas as experienced mapmakers. the new mapmakers could bring new wind...

lets think for what we need maps twice as Europe/Europe with the same theme, with the same gameplay? (and Europe is from graphics view, gameplay view and geographic view totaly out). this is as example...

I do not know if kicking off old maps (poor graphics, poor gameplay, unpopular...) is the best way, but what I know is that the new maps MUST be different as old ones. and this is what is not valid now, much new maps brings nothing new or only a little new from gameplay, theme. so this could be criteria for new maps, not how much map somebody did in past.

Oneyed

by **ender516** on Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:05 pm

The idea of unlocking maps with premium purchase faces the same problem as the vault: who decides which maps are segregated? Perhaps each user could: after an initial honeymoon, a freemium player would be expected to select only a portion of the maps available and would then only be allowed to change that selection after a lengthy period of time (three months?) or by purchasing premium, which would make all maps available (or some larger portion, with several levels available for purchase, ultimately including the full set).

by **koontz1973** on Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:31 pm

Oneyed wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:I do not like the idea,

this is the worst idea here and this idea will solve nothing. the new mapmakers can have better ideas as experienced mapmakers. the new mapmakers could bring new wind...

Its not the worst idea, but if people are thinking of limiting the maps coming out, then this is an easy way forward. Remember, this is what nobodies asked. Are too many maps being made?
As for new map makers bringing new wind to the foundry, that is true, but it also depends on that new map maker. Do they make friends and help or do they annoy the hell out of others.

by **Oneyed** on Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:46 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Its not the worst idea, but if people are thinking of limiting the maps coming out, then this is an easy way forward.

so it is better to have 100 old maps (from which 50 are nothing special) and limiting new nice maps?

koontz1973 wrote:Remember, this is what nobodies asked. Are too many maps being made?

I assume the main question is if there is too much maps. also old ones:

thenobodies80 wrote:And finally I would cut some maps nobody cares/play (really we need maps like crossword? )

koontz1973 wrote:As for new map makers bringing new wind to the foundry, that is true, but it also depends on that new map maker. Do they make friends and help or do they annoy the hell out of others.

yes, yes depends on mapmakers. new and old.

Oneyed

by **koontz1973** on Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:11 pm

We have what we have. Does not matter if it is 100 or 1000 maps. Some will always be better and played more than others. World 2.1, no where near the best for graphics but voted the best map on the site. Just because a map is old, does not mean it is bad. Classic map itself is really poor graphically, but will probably never be touched for a long time to come. A map may have normal game play, as you say nothing special, but just because we make it, does not mean players will play it. Everyone will play what they like. Look at the results for the map makers awards. Eurasia and Eurasia mini won nearly everything. Both graphically good but the game play is normal. Using your logic of nothing special in game play does not wash or Kings Court 2 and Salams Switch would of won more.
Does the site have room for 500 maps, yes, if 500 can be made and are played. Seamus made the point of finding more players. But out of those 500 maps, a variety needs to be found that suits all types of players. Crossword may be shit in graphics, but a revamp is better than a bin. Same can be said for all old maps.

yes, yes depends on mapmakers. new and old.

True, but the old ones are just old farts.

by **IcePack** on Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:18 pm

Don't get rid of maps.

by **jonofperu** on Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:01 am

I don't think it can hurt to have more maps. Especially new maps with unique strategy elements.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=181867

But as others have pointed out as long as a map has fans, there's no point in canning it. Part of the attraction/challenge of random games is that you can get stuck on ANY map - out of many different kinds. Of course that's also the downside to random. You can get stuck with a map you really hate.

Maybe there could be a map ranking system - perhaps as simple as identifying the CC favorite maps.
Then you could do several things with the favorites:
1) Make a random map option that applies only to those.
This would work for other kinds of categories - you could chose between Random Map (all maps); Random Map (CC favorites); Random Map (strategy kings); etc.
Or like someone else said, having maps that work only for certain options. Like be able to pick a random 1v1 optimized map.

2) Give freemiums access only to favorite maps

by **ManBungalow** on Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:05 am

Maybe some revamps?

by **chapcrap** on Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:48 am

What about this thread: viewtopic.php?f=127&t=168444 ?

by **Armandolas** on Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:56 am

I dont think any maps should be deleted.
I like to have the option to play many different maps(some of them i still search my first unique kill)
Even Europe/Europa, i might dislike the feel of Europa and others just hate the feel of Europe.
It does not get people away from CC to have many maps, but like someone said earlier, maybe categorize them or organize/show them in a nicer way could be a solution.
So in my opinion, it isnt the maps who need a revamp, but the whole site

About mapmakers/numer of maps being made i think its irrelevant. Like someone said before, the community will decide if the map is good or not.
The only question i have is if the community is that really important for a map to pass(since only a small niche of people represents the other thousands of players)

About graphics i think Kabannelas (or someone as good as him) should be named graphic supervisor.
I gave this name because in my personal opinion he produces the most beautifull graphics in the site. So only aperson like him can decide if a map can have graphic quality or not

To finish i would like to give my suggestion about this all.
Entertainment team and tournaments team should be involved in some actions about maps. "is this map not being played enough?
Lets start this competion"
For example:
-Tournament team 16 player tournament in das schloss where u can only enter if u dont have any unique kill in it.
And this can be fun, as a "noob" in this map know they wont just be tricked by an experienced player in this difficult map.
They will have fun playing it , and learn from it, instead of just being farmed
-Entertainment team choose the "map of the month" and give a prize(GA medal) to the player who played more games in that map that month.
Those might be bad ideas, but the those two fantastic teams (entertainment and tournaments) they know what they do and they will come out with great ideias to incentivate people to do something different.

Cheers

by **thenobodies80** on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:24 am

Armandolas wrote:About graphics i think Kabannelas (or someone as good as him) should be named graphic supervisor.

I already tried in past to have him on my team, simply he doesn't have the time to do that.
Said that you don't need to be Leonardo to judge graphics, it's the knowledge that's required, not the skill.
For example to be a good art critic you don't need to be a great painter, there're several art crtics in the world that have never painted in their life but they know what sucks or not.
Said that, graphics are the last problem we have....imo the issue with maps is the way they are shown on the site.

by **Armandolas** on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:45 am

Then get a good art critic

Graphics are a very important part of the gameplay experience, in my opinion off course.What make people play Das schloss or kings courtII?For me apart of having a challenging gameplay it also have nice graphics.
And eurasia mini or doodle? it has simply but nicely done graphics with stupid simple gameplay

Just compare eurasia mini and jakarta....what makes any one choose jakarta instead of eurasia mini?
Absolutely nothing.One is a clear , simple and accurate design, another one is an outline of a city with a background and bunch of lines dividing areas of the city.
Please dont get me wrong. I know the person who created it had a lot of work and hours spent, but It looks like that was made to only increase number of maps. Actually it resembles me those people who make more tournaments just to reach the 30 medals.

So my ideia is that graphics must have someone who can clearly stands out to say: "this cannot have the Graphics stamp, it does not meet CC quality standard. Make it better"(no matter who the creator is)

by **AndyDufresne** on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:48 pm

I like Eurasia Mini. The stupid gameplay is the type I usually like to play.

--Andy

by **Armandolas** on Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:16 am

AndyDufresne wrote:I like Eurasia Mini. The stupid gameplay is the type I usually like to play.

--Andy

Maybe u got me wrong, what i tried to say using the term stupid simple,is that is very nice...it was a complement

by **koontz1973** on Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:51 am

Armandolas wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:I like Eurasia Mini. The stupid gameplay is the type I usually like to play.

--Andy

Maybe u got me wrong, what i tried to say using the term stupid simple,is that is very nice...it was a complement

Andy got what you meant.

by **DoomYoshi** on Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:25 pm

TheMissionary is a huge fan of Crossword and Chinese Checkers. I don't think he needs counselling, but you could ask him.

by **gimil** on Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:49 pm

While talking about tagging/ranking maps based on complexity why not do the same for popularly?

Let people rate a map between 1-5 and rank maps based on how highly people review in and how many games are played on it monthly. From this you take say, your top 50 maps and present then on the game finder screen with thumbnails (anyone old enough to remember the old CC game finder that showed thumbnails for each map?). All other maps could be available through a drop down list.

By giving the top 50 a premium view on the game finder you encourage map makers to be a little more competitive in trying to make better maps. In order to enter the top 50 you have to make a map that is both played regularly and has a high rating.

EDIT: This should go some way to minimse the to many maps concern. You still have over 200 maps. But only the very best are shown off on the game finder. The rest are stored away in a boring list for someone to find and play on.

by **nicestash** on Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:08 pm

Why don't we get a list of some of the maps we are considering deleting and vote on which ones to keep and toss?

by **gimil** on Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:10 pm

nicestash wrote:Why don't we get a list of some of the maps we are considering deleting and vote on which ones to keep and toss?

Because such a system would be based on the arbitrary opinion of a small number of foundry goers. Which doesn't really fairly represent the 15k active players on the scoreboard.

by **Seamus76** on Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:03 pm

gimil wrote:While talking about tagging/ranking maps based on complexity why not do the same for popularly?

Let people rate a map between 1-5 and rank maps based on how highly people review in and how many games are played on it monthly. From this you take say, your top 50 maps and present then on the game finder screen with thumbnails (anyone old enough to remember the old CC game finder that showed thumbnails for each map?). All other maps could be available through a drop down list.

By giving the top 50 a premium view on the game finder you encourage map makers to be a little more competitive in trying to make better maps. In order to enter the top 50 you have to make a map that is both played regularly and has a high rating.

EDIT: This should go some way to minimse the to many maps concern. You still have over 200 maps. But only the very best are shown off on the game finder. The rest are stored away in a boring list for someone to find and play on.

This is a great idea!! It would certainly incentivize map makers to make the best possible maps, which we should be doing already, and eliminate the need to discuss too many maps, as gimil pointed out.

gimil wrote:
nicestash wrote:Why don't we get a list of some of the maps we are considering deleting and vote on which ones to keep and toss?
Because if the proper system is put in place there is no need to remove any maps. And the more I think about it, the more I think removing a map is extremely disrespectful to the map maker, whether still here or not. No matter what the time frame was, somebody worked extremely hard on that map, and as pointed out even what most would consider terrible maps have their fans.

So fix what's broken, the system for displaying and ranking maps, instead of pointing fingers at the foundry system and the map makers.

Because such a system would be based on the arbitrary opinion of a small number of foundry goers. Which doesn't really fairly represent the 15k active players on the scoreboard.

by **ender516** on Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:24 pm

A related discussion is also going on here: viewtopic.php?f=127&t=180569&view=unread#p4096026 .

by **chapcrap** on Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:52 am

With what Armandolas was saying about graphics and gameplay and things like that...

Maybe it's a good idea to try a new way to make maps. There should be a gameplay team that works on the gameplay aspects of maps, people like cairns and Kab can work very well there. A graphics sections where only a few people get to be located, so that we can be saved from some of the atrociousness of some maps... I think we need to remember that it's ok to tell people no if they don't have the skill to make a map look good.

by **40kguy** on Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:37 pm

i hate all the maps that are average size and have no special gameplay, if were cutting maps start there.

I like drug war and has different game play than other maps making it more fun!

by **rdsrds2120** on Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:11 pm

chapcrap wrote:With what Armandolas was saying about graphics and gameplay and things like that...

Maybe it's a good idea to try a new way to make maps. There should be a gameplay team that works on the gameplay aspects of maps, people like cairns and Kab can work very well there. A graphics sections where only a few people get to be located, so that we can be saved from some of the atrociousness of some maps... I think we need to remember that it's ok to tell people no if they don't have the skill to make a map look good.

This is an interesting idea, but I fear that it may become an artificial process if done that way.

BMO

by **greenoaks** on Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:37 pm

rdsrds2120 wrote:
chapcrap wrote:With what Armandolas was saying about graphics and gameplay and things like that...

Maybe it's a good idea to try a new way to make maps. There should be a gameplay team that works on the gameplay aspects of maps, people like cairns and Kab can work very well there. A graphics sections where only a few people get to be located, so that we can be saved from some of the atrociousness of some maps... I think we need to remember that it's ok to tell people no if they don't have the skill to make a map look good.

This is an interesting idea, but I fear that it may become an artificial process if done that way.

BMO

that's the way Suggestions work and the site only gets the best.