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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby Ragian on Wed May 09, 2018 12:52 am

So why aren't you voting for either of them?

Vote Aage - hasn't said diddly for ages.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby Pikanchion on Wed May 09, 2018 6:48 am

strike wolf wrote:We can't afford to no lynch until we get a result. We didn't lynch yesterday and it put us in this crap position where we Are still searching for a legitimate case to explore.


Seeing as your long post seems entirely hinged on the fact I have advocated for a No Lynch, and this is the only argument you have made against it: what makes you think this is a crap position? -Nobody is dead yet, potentially nobody even injured.

If we have a cop then 1/7th of players have been checked by them, if we have a role cop then a mass claim would mean 1/7th of players had been checked by them, if we have a Tracker/Watcher then by the time somebody dies they should have a pretty large record of actions, if we have any investigative role beyond those that interact with the dead then we gain by keeping the game slow. If you don't believe we have any investigative roles then we may as well just mass claim, at least then we have something concrete to go on.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby strike wolf on Wed May 09, 2018 7:25 pm

My long post is mostly hinged on you not talking about anything or anyone else except that. Like I said, you're not really acting like someone who has suspicions.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby Pikanchion on Wed May 09, 2018 7:47 pm

Well as I have already stated, I believe that the standard way of lynching is greatly hampered by the HP system, so I have little desire to really pressure people at this point.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby strike wolf on Wed May 09, 2018 9:34 pm

Ragian wrote:So why aren't you voting for either of them?

Vote Aage - hasn't said diddly for ages.


To be brief, my secondary win con encourages me to be careful with my vote.

Pikanchion wrote:Well as I have already stated, I believe that the standard way of lynching is greatly hampered by the HP system, so I have little desire to really pressure people at this point.


But that's the thing. There s a difference between questioning and pressuring. There s a difference between suspecting and calling for someone's lynch. The closest you've come to really expressing suspicion was when Dakky started calling for his own lynch which honestly, that fits well into your No Lynch agenda. Town players are naturally suspicious. They have to be. They dont know who is actually on their side. Even masons and lovers usually only have one person they can trust. The rest are unknowns. Mafia aren't as naturally suspicious. They can be a bit in games with possible other factions but they almost always know who their allies are.

You have not acted like someone who is suspicious of others.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby Pikanchion on Thu May 10, 2018 4:49 am

I don't see any distinction between questioning and applying pressure and the difference between suspecting openly and calling for a lynch on somebody is different only in directness, questioning and suspecting somebody openly would directly increase the likelihood that person is lynched if my observations are convincing. I want to No Lynch (or lynch after a Mass Claim or similar), so increasing the chances that somebody is lynched today in the normal way is at odds with that.

I guess I'll share the reverse though; I think dakky21 and strike wolf are town. Everybody else I'm on the fence or worse.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu May 10, 2018 1:41 pm

Vote Count

Pika (1) - DDS
dakky (1) - ZaBeast
aage (1) - Ragian

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is May 11 - 24 hours remain!!!
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby Skoffin on Thu May 10, 2018 7:00 pm

Honestly I can kinda get where Pika is coming from and I don't particularly see him as acting scummy for it.

I'm also a bit surprised that no one questioned my last post, as there usually is always some nosy beaver to prod at these things; which actually confirms a few suspicions I had that I've not mentioned.

As for questioning players on scummyness, I'll return to a comment on dakky from day 1:


dakky21 wrote:
Skoffin wrote:Anyway, I think the real question here is why, when Doom explicitly said not to try playing the mod, that dakky immediately went to playing the mod.


Don't I do that in every game?


Yes, but typically in those games mods have not explicitly warned against it. Why play the mod when you have been explicitly warned that the mod has accounted for such things and will make it detrimental to town?
The only real benefit of doing that this game is to keep up appearances from other games and to more likely pass as town.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby ZaBeast on Thu May 10, 2018 7:52 pm

Ragian wrote:So why aren't you voting for either of them?

Vote Aage - hasn't said diddly for ages.

An inactivity-based vote seems a bit weak. I thought you believed it was better to replace an inactive than to lynch him anyways (I can probably find a post if need be). So why directly vote Aage (as in not asking for him to be replaced/prodded prior)?

strike wolf wrote:To be brief, my secondary win con encourages me to be careful with my vote.

If you really want a lynch to happen, you should place your vote somewhere. Though tbh, I don't think we'll get to a lynch today either way (and a speed lynch is never a great idea anyways)

@the whole pika thing + no-lynch
DoomYoshi wrote:The night was quiet. By design or by default, most of the commanders were more focused on their own activities than on the activities of anyone else. There are however, the evidences of an experiment during the night. A mad scientist perhaps?

I take that flavor as hinting to the fact town doesn't have many investigative roles. Don't think waiting for results is the best approach. We should get lynching soon.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby dakky21 on Thu May 10, 2018 8:22 pm

Skoffin wrote:
dakky21 wrote:
Skoffin wrote:Anyway, I think the real question here is why, when Doom explicitly said not to try playing the mod, that dakky immediately went to playing the mod.


Don't I do that in every game?


Yes, but typically in those games mods have not explicitly warned against it. Why play the mod when you have been explicitly warned that the mod has accounted for such things and will make it detrimental to town?
The only real benefit of doing that this game is to keep up appearances from other games and to more likely pass as town.


Well, I am town (but an uncommon role) so my appearance to pass as town is normal. I do have an investigative role but won't say yet anything about it.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby Pikanchion on Fri May 11, 2018 3:04 am

dakky21 wrote:Well, I am town (but an uncommon role) so my appearance to pass as town is normal. I do have an investigative role but won't say yet anything about it.

You sort of just did...
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby Ragian on Fri May 11, 2018 5:58 am

ZaBeast wrote:
Ragian wrote:So why aren't you voting for either of them?

Vote Aage - hasn't said diddly for ages.

An inactivity-based vote seems a bit weak. I thought you believed it was better to replace an inactive than to lynch him anyways (I can probably find a post if need be). So why directly vote Aage (as in not asking for him to be replaced/prodded prior)?

Pot needs stirring. No one is going with it, though. My vote is on record. Use it wisely.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby aage on Fri May 11, 2018 6:04 am

Ragian wrote:So why aren't you voting for either of them?

Vote Aage - hasn't said diddly for ages.

I deserve this, I haven't posted for a week. Been a little busy IRL.
ZaBeast, voting for people cause they're not posting is normal, and considering the state of the game it's not really 'weak'. It's better than nothing.


Dakky, ...really?


I don't want to encourage speed lynching so I won't place my vote, but the case on Pika did pique my interest. I think that throwing in the towel so early (re:no lynch) is a bad idea, I said that a week ago as well. Waiting for the cop is just a bad strategy, and we don't even know if we have one. Several people are advocating this now and the days are kinda being wasted by that whole discussion. We need to put this to bed and start lynching.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby dakky21 on Fri May 11, 2018 10:34 am

aage wrote:Dakky, ...really?


Yeah, but the role is retarded. Didn't get to know anything valuable last night neither will like ever get anything valuable, lol. The role is opposite of the cop, I don't select who to investigate but instead get a list of players based on the adjective sent, ie. "smart", "lucky", "boring" etc. Told you, weird role and reveals nothing, but since I have an investigative role, there are probably more investigative roles.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby strike wolf on Fri May 11, 2018 10:47 am

Well assuming hes telling the truth, Dakky just screwed himself.

Pikanchion wrote:I don't see any distinction between questioning and applying pressure and the difference between suspecting openly and calling for a lynch on somebody is different only in directness, questioning and suspecting somebody openly would directly increase the likelihood that person is lynched if my observations are convincing. I want to No Lynch (or lynch after a Mass Claim or similar), so increasing the chances that somebody is lynched today in the normal way is at odds with that.

I guess I'll share the reverse though; I think dakky21 and strike wolf are town. Everybody else I'm on the fence or worse.


This is a pretty weak excuse in my opinion. It's basically a slippery slope argument taken to an extreme. Mafia isn't about waiting for Cops to tell you who to go for when we don't even know if there's a traditional cop or if there's a framer or a godfather in the game. It's an investigating game. Town are the cops in an investigating room. Were here to get to the bottom of who is scu m and doing that means we have to take Risks.

ZaBeast wrote:
Ragian wrote:So why aren't you voting for either of them?

Vote Aage - hasn't said diddly for ages.

An inactivity-based vote seems a bit weak. I thought you believed it was better to replace an inactive than to lynch him anyways (I can probably find a post if need be). So why directly vote Aage (as in not asking for him to be replaced/prodded prior)?


It's legitimate at this point to vote an inactive. The game was stagnating and in terms of getting actual discussion in is still going pretty slow. Apply pressure to the people who aren't contributing, see if they don't pop up. If they get lynched well you've gotten rid of (or in this game, come one step closer to doing so) one of the people dragging the game down. Inactivity is a weak vote but it doesn't change my opinion on Rage one way or the other right now. Here's a simple fact, mafia are going to be two nights ahead of us on getting rid of their enemies after tonight and we don't even know for sure if they're the only ones out there weakening town.

strike wolf wrote:To be brief, my secondary win con encourages me to be careful with my vote.

If you really want a lynch to happen, you should place your vote somewhere. Though tbh, I don't think we'll get to a lynch today either way (and a speed lynch is never a great idea anyways)


I understand it and while I waited too long today, I am starting to think that I should just say screw it to the second condition (I don't really care about the rewards for it anyways, I was mostly doing it as part of the game laid in front of me).

That said, no one has really weighed in that heavily on the back and forth between me and Pik a either (A possible sign that they take it as a town v. Town disagreement). Even if youre not going to vote for lynch, which it is too late for now anyways, people can provide feedback on the actual cases.

@the whole pika thing + no-lynch
DoomYoshi wrote:The night was quiet. By design or by default, most of the commanders were more focused on their own activities than on the activities of anyone else. There are however, the evidences of an experiment during the night. A mad scientist perhaps?

I take that flavor as hinting to the fact town doesn't have many investigative roles. Don't think waiting for results is the best approach. We should get lynching soon.


I would not play the mod on this one. It's possible your interpretation is correct but from his own words, Doom is probably going out of his way to make things ambiguous and possibly even to misdirect.

aage wrote:
Ragian wrote:So why aren't you voting for either of them?

Vote Aage - hasn't said diddly for ages.

I deserve this, I haven't posted for a week. Been a little busy IRL.
ZaBeast, voting for people cause they're not posting is normal, and considering the state of the game it's not really 'weak'. It's better than nothing.


Dakky, ...really?


I don't want to encourage speed lynching so I won't place my vote, but the case on Pika did pique my interest. I think that throwing in the towel so early (re:no lynch) is a bad idea, I said that a week ago as well. Waiting for the cop is just a bad strategy, and we don't even know if we have one. Several people are advocating this now and the days are kinda being wasted by that whole discussion. We need to put this to bed and start lynching.


If only you could have jumped in a couple days earlier.

Frankly no lynching isn't working on any level. Town is barely any closer to finding scum than we were at the beginning of day 1 and in fact, if Dakky is telling the truth, he may have just helped us take a step backwards. On a different level, I do honestly believe that the lack of lynching is killing the game itself.

@dakky: Is asking scummy as an adjective against the rules of your role?
Iliad wrote:The upside of calling everyone scum and making 1000 predictions is that statistically you should get a few right.


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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby dakky21 on Fri May 11, 2018 11:15 am

strike wolf wrote:Well assuming hes telling the truth, Dakky just screwed himself.

/snip/

Frankly no lynching isn't working on any level. Town is barely any closer to finding scum than we were at the beginning of day 1 and in fact, if Dakky is telling the truth, he may have just helped us take a step backwards. On a different level, I do honestly believe that the lack of lynching is killing the game itself.

@dakky: Is asking scummy as an adjective against the rules of your role?


I got a predefined set of adjectives which I can use (of which neither is useful), got three for N1 and each night one more will be added to pick (but I know already which one because Doom sent all adjectives up to N6), so I can pick one of those and get a list of three names which are most related with that adjective. First night I took "lucky" and got a result of three luckiest people, you, ZaBeast and me. Tonight I will probably pick "smart" but don't see what that can give me or us.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby strike wolf on Fri May 11, 2018 5:02 pm

Hmmm...not really sure why we'd both be considered lucky. My role isn't really anything like the one youre claiming. I mean I have one suspicion but without knowing more about you or ZaBeast (And I do not believe it benefits anyone but mafia for this info to be released), I can't confirm it.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby Ragian on Sat May 12, 2018 2:13 am

Could it be flavour rather than anything useful? As in, your generals are lucky...?
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby DoomYoshi on Sat May 12, 2018 6:14 am

The end here won't be until this evening so you have like 8 more hours.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 2... a quiet night?

Postby DoomYoshi on Sun May 13, 2018 9:40 am

At the end of the second day, an unease fell over the camp. Now there were some claims that would be tested. Now there was someone ready to make a brave sacrifice. Now the daggers were being sharpened. All the pieces were in place. Would tonight be a bloody night?

Night 2 Begin.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael:Night 2 - Tension so thick, you coul

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue May 15, 2018 5:28 pm

Right before dusk somebody had made a plan. "If this is going to be suicide, I might as well help." However, the suicide happened in another part of the camp entirely. A man was getting ready to hatch a plan for the night when a familiar face came by. "I already told you I don't want your services, you wildpinkler"
"I have pneumonia" he said and then died.
Was this a noble sacrifice or a stupid suicide? Only time will tell.

Ragian, Town Jailkeeper has died.

Day 3 Begin, Deadline is May 22nd.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 3 - A Death!

Postby dakky21 on Tue May 15, 2018 7:25 pm

The three "smartest" players were so far: DDS, Ragian and ZaBeast.

Since Ragian was killed, maybe we should look into what he said so far? Maybe flavor thing? Maybe his vote on aage? I don't know tbh.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 3 - A Death!

Postby Pikanchion on Tue May 15, 2018 8:16 pm

dakky21 wrote:The three "smartest" players were so far: DDS, Ragian and ZaBeast.

Since Ragian was killed, maybe we should look into what he said so far? Maybe flavor thing? Maybe his vote on aage? I don't know tbh.

Is that your wording or the mods? -Because "so far" would certainly indicate it is based on their actions or posts rather than simply flavour.
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 3 - A Death!

Postby dakky21 on Tue May 15, 2018 8:28 pm

mod said "so far" but don't see where it gets?
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Re: Unternehmen Michael: Day 3 - A Death!

Postby Ragian on Wed May 16, 2018 2:45 am

Aww, nuts! GO TOWN!!
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