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INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby Ragian on Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:58 pm

TX AG 90 wrote:
Sirius Kase wrote:I never figured out why TX AG 90 was called a priest. That's why I targeted him for my final analysis. Several people had misleading titles. But, Skoffin knew she investigated as town.


How did she know, it wasn't in her Bio?

Yes, it was.
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby ZaBeast on Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:24 am

IMHO Sirius, your defense disqualifies you from getting MVP. You can't ask to be treated like a newbie then go on saying you played like a pro. But really, at the end of the game, the main reason I didn't vote for you was that your flip wouldn't help me town read/scum read anybody, not because your play wasn't scummy.
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby Ragian on Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:31 am

Captain Bringdown here also wants to emphasise that loads found you scummy throughout the game (your insistence on flavour and nothing else), but let you off the hook as you are new. Join another game. Let's build on your first success. We'll take our gloves off ;)
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby aage on Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:23 pm

Don't kick the guy down too hard. He won, we only lynched him (the first mafia member) on day 6. While I agree that pretending to be a noob isn't cool in a game that is promoted as a "noob game" (as in, with a bunch of players not familiar on the CC mafia forum, even if they are in a CC clan), playing dishonestly is his role.

I think the main takeaway of this game is what I already warned about (yes, I will be playing captain I Told You So, there can only be one): getting distracted by the theme leads to a mafia win. My other takeaway is that some people don't really know how to play town during the daytime. Have you guys played games with no theme and no power roles? I think it would be an excellent exercise in mafia strategy and rhetoric AKA scumhunting.
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby blacky365 on Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:29 pm

aage wrote:My other takeaway is that some people don't really know how to play town during the daytime. Have you guys played games with no theme and no power roles? I think it would be an excellent exercise in mafia strategy and rhetoric AKA scumhunting.


Excellent idea... it would help me build up experience... are you volunteering to host?
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby dakky21 on Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:20 pm

blacky365 wrote:
aage wrote:My other takeaway is that some people don't really know how to play town during the daytime. Have you guys played games with no theme and no power roles? I think it would be an excellent exercise in mafia strategy and rhetoric AKA scumhunting.


Excellent idea... it would help me build up experience... are you volunteering to host?


I don't know if I'm dumb or what but you can't actually scumhunt in a closed community like this... because everything is only meta and people are smart enough not to get exposed... so there will be no slips or errors... This game proves that fact. IF scum is playing like town AND town treats scum as town THEN you can't bust scum no matter what, even in vanilla game.
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby ZaBeast on Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:34 pm

With a mindset like that, no you can't.
But scum will differ from town in who they defend and who they want to get lynched, because they know who's on their team. If no one is doing stupid stuff, the key is analyzing the reads and the voting patterns once people start dying.

aage wrote:Have you guys played games with no theme and no power roles? I think it would be an excellent exercise in mafia strategy and rhetoric AKA scumhunting.

A game where dakky can claim D1 all he likes :shock:
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby aage on Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:42 am

dakky21 wrote:
blacky365 wrote:
aage wrote:My other takeaway is that some people don't really know how to play town during the daytime. Have you guys played games with no theme and no power roles? I think it would be an excellent exercise in mafia strategy and rhetoric AKA scumhunting.


Excellent idea... it would help me build up experience... are you volunteering to host?


I don't know if I'm dumb or what but you can't actually scumhunt in a closed community like this... because everything is only meta and people are smart enough not to get exposed... so there will be no slips or errors... This game proves that fact. IF scum is playing like town AND town treats scum as town THEN you can't bust scum no matter what, even in vanilla game.

I think you are wrong.

"everything is only meta"
There's a bunch of players in this game that we both had never played with. Correct me if I'm wrong Blacky and Sirius, but I don't think we've been in a game together before this. There is nothing 'meta' about reading you two.

"people are smart enough not to get exposed"
Nobody is perfect and everybody makes mistakes.


Scum has not been subtle about their voting this game. If we had paid more attention to it, we would have caught them.
Here's a list of every (mis)lynch, including the votes on Chap when he got modkilled:
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(notice how Strike is also on each of the lynch wagons lol you dropped the ball hard my dude)

They were right there the whole damn time. So what happened? Why was nobody looking into this? Why wasn't this followed up on?

My own theory is twofold.

The first part is that everyone including the vets were too busy looking at role names and fish theory.
"Town Kidnapper"? That can't be real. "Town Psychopath"? "Town Assassin"? C'mon now.
During the first couple of days there were even arguments about whether a certain type of fish would even make sense for a role. Problem: you're trying to win the game based on the host's competency now. I had a chat about this with Skoffin earlier this week; I suspect most of the DBD players are looking at this game like a puzzle, and the game host has given us all the clues to solve it. This is why I think very little game-related discussion happens, and it is why I think DBD games are almost exclusively won by mafia. (Someone said this was the case, correct me if I'm wrong.)

The second part is hidden information and mechanics. I mentioned this to some of you in the discord channel, the double deception (between town and scum, and between players and host) is doing some heavy lifting here.
You do not conceal role info like that from players, and I'm really not sure why it was The game would have been very different if people knew the info that had been hidden from them.
Agreed. I'm sure it's fun for the host but it makes for a bad game. We're already dealing with one level of deception here in the basic premise of the game, there is no need whatsoever to add more.


blacky365 wrote:Excellent idea... it would help me build up experience... are you volunteering to host?
Are more people interested in this? To be clear, this would be the most barebones mafia game you've ever played. No story, no theme, no scenes, just "player X was lynched, their role was [Town/Mafia], it is now night." No rolecops, no doctors, no nothing. It'll be hard.
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby BuJaber on Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:06 am

I'm down but I confess that's because I'm weird and I prefer the barebones game and open setups as a second favorite.
I love rolling Vanilla townie.


I don't know what compelled me to trust blacky here but it just seemed crazy to me not to trust my blacky result after I double checked my results against redirectors in the early days, and then they all died, and then I had confirmation that I wasn't some sort of insane cop with the true guilty I had on sirius.

Hard not to blame myself for this game though. Town's overwhelming power aside, we had a solid chance all the way up to the final lynch and I dunno I guess I knew better because in a non-regular game of mafia you just have to trust the overall story not individual results.

In a regular game of mafia there would be clearer lines as to what to actually trust vs. What not to trust but I fully agree with aage here that the mechanical (role-related) aspects are all secondary to actual scumhunting and discussion.
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby TX AG 90 on Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:48 am

I'd take a flyer at a bare-bones game.
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby Ragian on Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:03 am

Why did you wonkers not sign up for skoffin's game?

Anyway, I can host a bareboned game in a week or so if people want it. Regular roles, no flavour.
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby dakky21 on Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:18 am

I'd give a shot to a regular roles without flavor, though it might be better to be plain - no roles, just VT vs scum as aage said.
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby aage on Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:39 am

dakky21 wrote:I'd give a shot to a regular roles without flavor, though it might be better to be plain - no roles, just VT vs scum as aage said.

You sure?
dakky21 wrote:I really don't know what to do as a VT.
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby dakky21 on Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:18 pm

aage wrote:
dakky21 wrote:I'd give a shot to a regular roles without flavor, though it might be better to be plain - no roles, just VT vs scum as aage said.

You sure?
dakky21 wrote:I really don't know what to do as a VT.


It's different when you know that ALL others are VT as well as you. Then VT doesn't suck at all. VT sucks when there are power roles and you are "just" enabled to vote.
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby Skoffin on Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:39 pm

Ragian wrote:Why did you wonkers not sign up for skoffin's game?
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby strike wolf on Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:43 am

Yeah admittedly I just didn't have time or focus to read back much in this game so checking voting didn't really happen. I kinda went on autopilot on day 4 and there were 2+ of each role type and each players actions seemed to contradict the others. (Seriously, if I was going by action believability, ZaBeast and/or Buj were actually the most likely liars if I remember right). Turns out some of that was just because of the mod messing up night 2. Of course even flipping scum, Blacky dying night 2 would have opened up a whole can of worms as to why I didn't heal him and who knows how the game would have gone there but yeah. All the people I trusted most having the contradictory actions and everyone having duplicate roles kinda broke my brain a little.
Iliad wrote:The upside of calling everyone scum and making 1000 predictions is that statistically you should get a few right.


Strike wolf need brain for smart making.
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby TX AG 90 on Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:38 am

strike wolf wrote:Yeah admittedly I just didn't have time or focus to read back much in this game so checking voting didn't really happen. I kinda went on autopilot on day 4 and there were 2+ of each role type and each players actions seemed to contradict the others. (Seriously, if I was going by action believability, ZaBeast and/or Buj were actually the most likely liars if I remember right). Turns out some of that was just because of the mod messing up night 2. Of course even flipping scum, Blacky dying night 2 would have opened up a whole can of worms as to why I didn't heal him and who knows how the game would have gone there but yeah. All the people I trusted most having the contradictory actions and everyone having duplicate roles kinda broke my brain a little.


Strike wolf need strong brain for not breaking.
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Re: INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

Postby Razorvich on Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:10 am

Congratz to Skoffin for the MVP prize.

All booty has now been paid out.
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