Conquer Club

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:06 pm**

Suddenly and with out notivce on round 70, during intense treaty debate, the language has switched to one that I don not underastand, this is clearly to have a 'private' discussion - surely this is against the rules. If the language was say spanish from the outset then fine, but if you read the log you will see it has come at a sensitive time in the game. Am I being paranoid here ?

Scuzza

The accused are suspected of:

Being Multis
Conducting Secret Diplomacy
Severe PM Abuse
Other: <Explanation>

Game number(s):

[game]xxxxxxx[/game]
[game]xxxxxxx[/game]
[game]xxxxxxx[/game]
[game]xxxxxxx[/game]

Comments:

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:08 pm**

scuzza wrote:Suddenly and with out notice on round 70, during intense treaty debate, the language has switched to one that I don not understand, this is clearly to have a 'private' discussion - surely this is against the rules. If the language was say spanish from the outset then fine, but if you read the log you will see it has come at a sensitive time in the game. Am I being paranoid here ?

Scuzza

The accused are suspected of:

Being Multis
Conducting Secret Diplomacy

Game number(s):

Game 7896710

Comments:

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:24 pm**

#1_stunna wrote:
scuzza wrote:Suddenly and with out notice on round 70, during intense treaty debate, the language has switched to one that I don not understand, this is clearly to have a 'private' discussion - surely this is against the rules. If the language was say spanish from the outset then fine, but if you read the log you will see it has come at a sensitive time in the game. Am I being paranoid here ?

Scuzza

The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy

Game number(s):

Game 7896710

Comments:

jj ♥ stunna.

Player linked.

AND on scuzza wall - page 1: (Not in re of game in this complaint)

Scuzza, you violated our truce in Europe. What reparations are you proposing for your breach of protocol?

by Evalaxis
on Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:32 am
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
if ypu like? I will attack (misike) in eur and you attack green

by saracen
on Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:54 pm

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:55 pm**

jefjef wrote:
#1_stunna wrote:
scuzza wrote:Suddenly and with out notice on round 70, during intense treaty debate, the language has switched to one that I don not understand, this is clearly to have a 'private' discussion - surely this is against the rules. If the language was say spanish from the outset then fine, but if you read the log you will see it has come at a sensitive time in the game. Am I being paranoid here ?

Scuzza

The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy

Game number(s):

Game 7896710

Comments:

jj ♥ stunna.

Player linked.

AND on scuzza wall - page 1: (Not in re of game in this complaint)

Scuzza, you violated our truce in Europe. What reparations are you proposing for your breach of protocol?

(no rule breach here just not liked)

by Evalaxis
on Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:32 am
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
if ypu like? I will attack (misike) in eur and you attack green

by saracen
on Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:54 pm

This is not what this case is about.

like you tell so many people jefjef this has nothing to do with this case. please keep it on topic. and open a new one if you feel there was any cheating so the REAL MODS can do there job not a wannabe one.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:00 pm**

jefjef wrote:
jj ♥ stunna.

That sir, brought a tear to my eye.

thank you for the kind ♥

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:18 pm**

eddie2 wrote:This is not what this case is about.
like you tell so many people jefjef this has nothing to do with this case. please keep it on topic. and open a new one if you feel there was any cheating so the REAL MODS can do there job not a wannabe one.

Eddie, this case absolutely is about secret diplomacy by Scuzza, as stated in the original post in this thread. Please stop chasing jefjef around trying to harass him like this, as it only makes you look bad.

Posted: **Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:09 am**

Woodruff wrote:
eddie2 wrote:This is not what this case is about.
like you tell so many people jefjef this has nothing to do with this case. please keep it on topic. and open a new one if you feel there was any cheating so the REAL MODS can do there job not a wannabe one.

Eddie, this case absolutely is about secret diplomacy by Scuzza, as stated in the original post in this thread. Please stop chasing jefjef around trying to harass him like this, as it only makes you look bad.

lol read the thread this case is by scuzza against 3 other players. If you ask 1stunna about this guy he came to live chat about these other 3 using another lanuage in game chat. he was not going to report this as he felt nothing would happen. It was stunna and me that made him post. so all i done was highlight the point jefjef was no mod and was making the op's thread off topic by his post. And possible another player to scared to report a crime.

Posted: **Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:30 am**

eddie2 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
eddie2 wrote:This is not what this case is about.
like you tell so many people jefjef this has nothing to do with this case. please keep it on topic. and open a new one if you feel there was any cheating so the REAL MODS can do there job not a wannabe one.

Eddie, this case absolutely is about secret diplomacy by Scuzza, as stated in the original post in this thread. Please stop chasing jefjef around trying to harass him like this, as it only makes you look bad.

lol read the thread this case is by scuzza against 3 other players. If you ask 1stunna about this guy he came to live chat about these other 3 using another lanuage in game chat. he was not going to report this as he felt nothing would happen. It was stunna and me that made him post. so all i done was highlight the point jefjef was no mod and was making the op's thread off topic by his post. And possible another player to scared to report a crime.

Cease your baiting eddie.

My post
A) Linked players name.
b) Brought to light some potentially RELATED SD evidence. A potential history of it.

Your post: Some baiting and CAPS and trolling. Absolutely off topic and specifically intended to harass me.

So far both of your posts in this thread have nothing to do with this complaint. Only you attacking me.

Posted: **Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:19 pm**

have any of you even read this case or are you just posting for the sake of it.

scuzza is not what this case is about if you read his opening context it is about the following people.

fuhook
Daviddenver
cricket19
robespierre87

show: game chat

so jefjef i am not doing this to troll of bait or flame you. but you have changed the op's complaint into some form of case against himself. this just goes to show what i have thought for a long time. if a player posts that you do not like you just automaticly think they are baiting or trolling you. now can i ask that you correct your fix for this case to show the correct details for this case not one that you might want to open about the op.

Posted: **Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:46 pm**

Multihunters, Cheating and Abuse Team:

As one of the International Moderators I can tell you that the Spanish written in the game chat has no bearing on the game, nor has it anything to do with secret diplomacy.

This does not mean that I'm saying that there is no secret diplomacy going on, but that it's not evident from the Spanish chat.

Obviously the rule that the game chat should be in a language that all players understand may have been broken.

The only Spanish with any significant meaning comes from Fuhook: "Pendejo", which means "Asshole".

Lx

Posted: **Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:51 pm**

u played 70 rounds wow :shock:

Posted: **Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:05 am**

eddie2 wrote:have any of you even read this case or are you just posting for the sake of it.

scuzza is not what this case is about if you read his opening context it is about the following people.

fuhook
Daviddenver
cricket19
robespierre87

show: game chat

so jefjef i am not doing this to troll of bait or flame you. but you have changed the op's complaint into some form of case against himself. this just goes to show what i have thought for a long time. if a player posts that you do not like you just automaticly think they are baiting or trolling you. now can i ask that you correct your fix for this case to show the correct details for this case not one that you might want to open about the op.

Eddie2, just as a C&A thread originator can be found guilty of being a multi simply because they posted a thread in C&A and were investigated, if the thread originator is guilty of the crime they are claiming against someone else, it is relevant.

Posted: **Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:09 am**

Lindax wrote:Multihunters, Cheating and Abuse Team:
As one of the International Moderators I can tell you that the Spanish written in the game chat has no bearing on the game, nor has it anything to do with secret diplomacy.
This does not mean that I'm saying that there is no secret diplomacy going on, but that it's not evident from the Spanish chat.
Obviously the rule that the game chat should be in a language that all players understand may have been broken.
The only Spanish with any significant meaning comes from Fuhook: "Pendejo", which means "Asshole".
Lx

Glad to hear there was no secret diplomacy. However, this does bring to light a complaint I have. We have the rule about "all game chat should be in a language all players can understand", but this rule is consistently ignored by the moderators of this site. Why is this rule consistently ignored?

The problem, as I see it, is that someone seeing game chat in a foreign language can't know whether it is secret diplomacy or not. So they go to a web-translator to see if it is. But by doing so, they discover that the foreign language posted was indeed secret diplomacy AND YET because they are REQUIRED to make this check before it can be declared "secret diplomacy"...it fascinatingly no longer QUALIFIES as secret diplomacy, because it's not secret anymore! Essentially, the "secret diplomacy via foreign language" rule is null and void because of the requirement that the C&A moderators have applied to it via ignoring the "game chat in a language all can understand" rule.

Posted: **Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:39 pm**

eddie2 wrote:
so jefjef i am not doing this to troll of bait or flame you. but you have changed the op's complaint into some form of case against himself. this just goes to show what i have thought for a long time. if a player posts that you do not like you just automaticly think they are baiting or trolling you. now can i ask that you correct your fix for this case to show the correct details for this case not one that you might want to open about the op.

I have nothing to fix... I linked the name in the complaint from the post that Stunna linked the game number. I added nothing.

If the complaint is different then what the OP posted then he should make any necessary changes.

Posted: **Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:18 pm**

This report has been NOTED.

Woodruff wrote:Glad to hear there was no secret diplomacy. However, this does bring to light a complaint I have. We have the rule about "all game chat should be in a language all players can understand", but this rule is consistently ignored by the moderators of this site. Why is this rule consistently ignored?

Woodruff I know that I try to be consistent and fair. Is the rule ignored or is it not reported, or did it just not occur to the mod that took action on the report? I think I understand what you are saying and that maybe in the past when I looked into a report I wasn't thinking about the language in game chat, but about the secret diplomacy. Your question and these complaints have opened my eyes about it and I will be more conscious in the future.

Woodruff wrote:The problem, as I see it, is that someone seeing game chat in a foreign language can't know whether it is secret diplomacy or not. So they go to a web-translator to see if it is. But by doing so, they discover that the foreign language posted was indeed secret diplomacy AND YET because they are REQUIRED to make this check before it can be declared "secret diplomacy"...it fascinatingly no longer QUALIFIES as secret diplomacy, because it's not secret anymore! Essentially, the "secret diplomacy via foreign language" rule is null and void because of the requirement that the C&A moderators have applied to it via ignoring the "game chat in a language all can understand" rule.

As far as it not being secret diplomacy if someone uses an online translator that would make a wall post about secret diplomacy being null and void if you are in that game and report it.

About requiring someone to use a translator, I just wish they would use one so maybe a note in game chat could keep things on a friendly basis.

As far as the other secret diplomacy that jefjef mentioned I will look into that.

Posted: **Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:34 pm**

Evil Semp wrote:This report has been NOTED.

Woodruff wrote:Glad to hear there was no secret diplomacy. However, this does bring to light a complaint I have. We have the rule about "all game chat should be in a language all players can understand", but this rule is consistently ignored by the moderators of this site. Why is this rule consistently ignored?

Woodruff I know that I try to be consistent and fair. Is the rule ignored or is it not reported, or did it just not occur to the mod that took action on the report? I think I understand what you are saying and that maybe in the past when I looked into a report I wasn't thinking about the language in game chat, but about the secret diplomacy. Your question and these complaints have opened my eyes about it and I will be more conscious in the future.

Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand.

People can chat about the weather and why I have them foed or whatever in any gibberish they want. They just can't talk truce/strategy. Simple rule. Enforced very accurately by ES and the other hunters.

I do agree that people should translate, if able, before posting a SD complaint or be subject to a warning themselves.

Posted: **Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:40 pm**

I think I understand what woody said, and I believe I may have been guilty of it.

Example some complained about SD but after I used a translator I said cleared, not thinking about the language that all understand part of the rule.

Posted: **Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:06 pm**

Evil Semp wrote:I think I understand what woody said, and I believe I may have been guilty of it.

Example some complained about SD but after I used a translator I said cleared, not thinking about the language that all understand part of the rule.

As I understand it "the language that all understand part of the rule" only pertains to diplomacy/strategy. Nothing else.

Is this incorrect?

Posted: **Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:16 pm**

jefjef wrote:
Evil Semp wrote:I think I understand what woody said, and I believe I may have been guilty of it.

Example some complained about SD but after I used a translator I said cleared, not thinking about the language that all understand part of the rule.

As I understand it "the language that all understand part of the rule" only pertains to diplomacy/strategy. Nothing else.

Is this incorrect?

What I am saying is the language should be a language that all understand at all times. In my above example it should have been noted not cleared.

Posted: **Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:34 pm**

Just an FYI. I have asked for some clarification and this ruling might change.

Posted: **Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:03 am**

The rule is not clear like most of the site rules. faq(on e tickets.) and community guidlines contradict each other in a couple of the site rules. As for the comment that people should be warned for posting without translating i do not think this should happen. but maybe put a link in a sticked thread to a translator for people to use first.

Posted: **Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:20 am**

Thanx Evil Semp for your thorts on this...I think the "official" ruling dates back to a C&A of mine some time ago myself re Mitsuko...hard to use an on-line translator in a speed game and as we all know the points are NOT reset afterwards, no matter what the outcome. in that game, Mitsuko quoted verbatim JefJef's interpretation and used it for flaming and baiting...turns out there was no direct diplomacy/strategy raised initially but the language used was an obscure Japanese dialect which even many Japanese-speakers did not understand...I have some limited fluency in four languages and have no trouble with fellow nationals greeting each other in a comfortable tongue but feel that when asked for a translation of a post, all players should be required to provide same in Englishe their next turn,,,if it is incorrectly provided, diplomacy or not...then that should form the basis for an abuse report...just saying...

Conquer Club

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