Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus [warned]

[drunkmonkey]

The key to this is what was the intent of Chariot of Fire taking Pedro and other TOFU member's turns?
Was it to increase Pedro's score and rank?
Does anyone actually believe that was the case?

Well, no one had a problem believing that when josko (current #79) took turns for Rodion (current #8). In contrast, it doesn't seem that crazy.

[jefjef]

The key to this is what was the intent of Chariot of Fire taking Pedro and other TOFU member's turns?
Was it to increase Pedro's score and rank?
Does anyone actually believe that was the case?

I believe it was established that it was for strategic gain/purposes which is very much against the rules... But yes that is attempting to win games and that equates points...

[Chariot of Fire]

Sorry jefjef but have you actually bothered reading this:

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=148339&start=60#p3298714

refuted by this:

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=148339&start=75#p3302405

yet still somehow reached a conclusion that I was at fault?

Have you never been asked to sit for someone? If you have been, did you feel it was wrong and/or did you gain anything from it?

[josko.ri]

Sorry jefjef but have you actually bothered reading this:

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=148339&start=60#p3298714

refuted by this:

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=148339&start=75#p3302405

yet still somehow reached a conclusion that I was at fault?

Have you never been asked to sit for someone? If you have been, did you feel it was wrong and/or did you gain anything from it?

... toghether with this:
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=148339&start=0

and this:
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=148339&start=75#p3302454

and this:
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=148339&start=90#p3302681

and this:
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=148339&start=90#p3302799

to get mote complete wiew on the case.

[Chariot of Fire]

You mean your view josko.re----

I merely post facts in response to the charges as set out by those in authority - all of which I believe have been answered satisfactorily.

I'm not going to start spending 100+ hours (as you seem to have done) digging around simply to answer your load of crap

I have a life. You should try it sometime.

[josko.ri]

You mean your view josko.re----

I merely post facts in response to the charges as set out by those in authority - all of which I believe have been answered satisfactorily.

I'm not going to start spending 100+ hours (as you seem to have done) digging around simply to answer your load of crap

I have a life. You should try it sometime.

and you meant your wiew Charoit. so together with your and my wiew, whoever is interested to read, has complete wiew.

about spending 100+ hours, here is one quote which may explain my enormous effort about this case: "One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100 000 who have only interests."

[Frop]

about spending 100+ hours, here is one quote which may explain my enormous effort about this case: "One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100 000 who have only interests."

That is astoundingly inappropriate given the recent context of that particular quote. You're such a tool.

[josko.ri]

about spending 100+ hours, here is one quote which may explain my enormous effort about this case: "One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100 000 who have only interests."

That is astoundingly inappropriate given the recent context of that particular quote. You're such a tool.

maybe because you connect the phrase with person who said that, but try to think only about the phrase point and not connect it with the person who said that so maybe you will understand. who wants to understand, he will.

[Frop]

about spending 100+ hours, here is one quote which may explain my enormous effort about this case: "One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100 000 who have only interests."

That is astoundingly inappropriate given the recent context of that particular quote. You're such a tool.

maybe because you connect the phrase with person who said that, but try to think only about the phrase point and not connect it with the person who said that so maybe you will understand. who wants to understand, he will.

Stop being so full of shit and show some respect to the victims, friends and families involved in the Norwegian shootings.

[josko.ri]

about spending 100+ hours, here is one quote which may explain my enormous effort about this case: "One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100 000 who have only interests."

That is astoundingly inappropriate given the recent context of that particular quote. You're such a tool.

maybe because you connect the phrase with person who said that, but try to think only about the phrase point and not connect it with the person who said that so maybe you will understand. who wants to understand, he will.

Stop being so full of shit and show some respect to the victims, friends and families involved in the Norwegian shootings.

if I qoute the phrase whose point is true, that is not showing disrespect.
and of course, I really regret for all that happened there, and the fact that such a strong belief were used for such destructive purposes.

about the reason why I used the phrase for this case, I wanted to say that I dont regret any my hour spent on the case because I did it with strong belief that what CoF did in any way is not different than what I did and was punished for. so, if my doing was rule breaking then this is rule breaking too. also, if that is rule breaking, then there are many other rule breakers on the site, someones even admitted in forum that they did it. if the sentence above need to be proved, I may do it with many more examples (not connected with Chariot of Fire).

from the other side, there are many others who have interests that CoF are being cleared because they are long time friends or for some other reasons. for example, reptile, who didnt even considered any of the evidence shown in his supporting post, and based his post on reputation and his friendship with CoF instead on evidence.

I only regret that I have to spend my time on C&A cases instead of using the time to contribute the site on other more useful ways, but I do it because I really doubt that any contributing to the site from declared cheater would be useful.

[Ace Rimmer]

I only regret that I have to spend my time on C&A cases instead of using the time to contribute the site on other more useful ways, but I do it because I really doubt that any contributing to the site from declared cheater would be useful.

You CHOOSE to do this, you do not HAVE to do this. If you had agreed to be a C&A moderator or Multi Hunter, then you would HAVE to do this as part of your agreement with the site. As you are not a moderator, you do this by CHOICE.

[josko.ri]

I only regret that I have to spend my time on C&A cases instead of using the time to contribute the site on other more useful ways, but I do it because I really doubt that any contributing to the site from declared cheater would be useful.

You CHOOSE to do this, you do not HAVE to do this. If you had agreed to be a C&A moderator or Multi Hunter, then you would HAVE to do this as part of your agreement with the site. As you are not a moderator, you do this by CHOICE.

C&A forum is place for C&A team and cheaters. from these two, I am cheater (officially confirmed) so this is right place for me. games are place for honest players.

[Chariot of Fire]

I only regret that I have to spend my time on C&A cases instead of using the time to contribute the site on other more useful ways, but I do it because I really doubt that any contributing to the site from declared cheater would be useful.

You CHOOSE to do this, you do not HAVE to do this. If you had agreed to be a C&A moderator or Multi Hunter, then you would HAVE to do this as part of your agreement with the site. As you are not a moderator, you do this by CHOICE.

C&A forum is place for C&A team and cheaters. from these two, I am cheater (officially confirmed) so this is right place for me. games are place for honest players.

Josko is right (i.e. a cheater in his own words). Besides, keeping him busy in here keeps him out of other players' games

Dako is away for four days btw and I might, just might, have to sit for him (in case anyone wishes to file another spurious claim).

[lord voldemort]

I only regret that I have to spend my time on C&A cases instead of using the time to contribute the site on other more useful ways, but I do it because I really doubt that any contributing to the site from declared cheater would be useful.

You CHOOSE to do this, you do not HAVE to do this. If you had agreed to be a C&A moderator or Multi Hunter, then you would HAVE to do this as part of your agreement with the site. As you are not a moderator, you do this by CHOICE.

C&A forum is place for C&A team and cheaters. from these two, I am cheater (officially confirmed) so this is right place for me. games are place for honest players.

no one asked you to do this...In fact as an old hunter...All you are doing is wasting their time. How about you stick to something you are good at (playing games) (shocked I actually think you arent terrible at this game)
And let the hunters deal with the cheaters

[ljex]

I only regret that I have to spend my time on C&A cases instead of using the time to contribute the site on other more useful ways, but I do it because I really doubt that any contributing to the site from declared cheater would be useful.

You CHOOSE to do this, you do not HAVE to do this. If you had agreed to be a C&A moderator or Multi Hunter, then you would HAVE to do this as part of your agreement with the site. As you are not a moderator, you do this by CHOICE.

C&A forum is place for C&A team and cheaters. from these two, I am cheater (officially confirmed) so this is right place for me. games are place for honest players.

no one asked you to do this...In fact as an old hunter...All you are doing is wasting their time. How about you stick to something you are good at (playing games) (shocked I actually think you arent terrible at this game)
And let the hunters deal with the cheaters

its a little less black and white then you make it out to be.

He feels he was wrongly convicted of cheating something i have a shared appreciation of based on past experience. When such loose evidence is used by the C&A team it is easy to go find others in similar situations and accuse them of the same thing you were convicted of. To be honest its actually fair in one sense of the word and i can understand why josko is doing this. He thinks that if he provides other cases C&A will be forced to punish everyone or revoke his ruling where either way he wins in the terms of being equal to those who did the same thing as him. Problem is KA and the Multi Hunters have a problem with consistency in rulings (at least in my opinion) and are much more willing to punish loud or disliked players. Josko really has 2 choices and the one that he is currently choosing is the easy and most gratifying short term, I do think it will lead to more hardship long term.

For those of you saying josko.ri has a choice in doing this or not...put yourself in his shoes I can say that i was and my first instinct was the same as his. If not for the fact that i was extremely busy i probably would have chose the same path as him without a doubt as to the correctness of the decision. It is easy to judge from the sidelines and say that you would do differently but on the field its a whole different game.

[Chariot of Fire]

Do you not think it would have been more appropriate for Josko to defend himself and his actions rather than try and justify what he did by raising spurious claims against others with whom he obviously has some axe to grind?

It pisses me off that I even have to defend myself against these claims, yet I did - and it's fairly clear that on the counts brought against me by KA that I furnished satisfactory evidence that I only sat at times when the other player was unable to do so.

[ljex]

Do you not think it would have been more appropriate for Josko to defend himself and his actions rather than try and justify what he did by raising spurious claims against others with whom he obviously has some axe to grind?

It pisses me off that I even have to defend myself against these claims, yet I did - and it's fairly clear that on the counts brought against me by KA that I furnished satisfactory evidence that I only sat at times when the other player was unable to do so.

while you may have evidence based on some thread, josko may not have the same evidence the pm's or whatever means of communicating possible misses may be long gone and he can not defend himself as you do. Also to be fair COF you have done essentially the same thing as him just people dont like Josko...to be fair i dont either. Sure there are pm's or chat to say people were waiting for his advice before playing turns but that happens all the time. The only difference i see worth mentioning is Rodin saying he didnt take a turn knowing he would not be on in time. Im sure he did try to defend himself and when that failed he set out to show cc that others not just himself do this.

oh and really about the fact that it pisses you off? im sure it pissed josko off more when you called him a cretin or the countless other actions you have taken against him. You can only push so hard before someone pushes back. I believe you were one of the many people offering up evidence in the josko case, im sure he was happy to have the task of defending himself.

As to the defense, we will have to wait for KA and the multi hunters decide and i have no dog in that fight. I only ask that you understand the motives of josko and give the poor man a break from all of the ridicule you direct his way.

[Chariot of Fire]

ljex.....I only bite back when provoked. I don't actually instigate anything. My clanmates and I are just sick of this guy because he continues to rear his head where it's not wanted. Do you not see his posts (a recent example being that sent to demonfork's Top 100 list) as being unnecessarily provocative? It never entered my mind to do something like that to josko when the case was proven against him.

Anyway....keeping this on-topic: Case brought against me, verdict delivered without hearing any defence as I wasn't here, defence duly submitted, no word from the powers-that-be.

Perhaps they are hoping this will just quietly fade away? I'd rather it didn't and I'll fight tooth and nail to clear my name as I have never sat for another player to gain an advantage. All I've ever done is cover for someone who has requested it of me due to absence or inability and I fail to see the culpability on my part in so doing.

[pascalleke]

To my point of "wiew" this is really getting annoying and using a quote u recently picked up after that drama just shows some poor judge of character and human courtesy.....May i suggest u just let it go and let the C&A crew handle it ?

[ljex]

ljex.....I only bite back when provoked. I don't actually instigate anything. My clanmates and I are just sick of this guy because he continues to rear his head where it's not wanted. Do you not see his posts (a recent example being that sent to demonfork's Top 100 list) as being unnecessarily provocative? It never entered my mind to do something like that to josko when the case was proven against him.

Anyway....keeping this on-topic: Case brought against me, verdict delivered without hearing any defence as I wasn't here, defence duly submitted, no word from the powers-that-be.

Perhaps they are hoping this will just quietly fade away? I'd rather it didn't and I'll fight tooth and nail to clear my name as I have never sat for another player to gain an advantage. All I've ever done is cover for someone who has requested it of me due to absence or inability and I fail to see the culpability on my part in so doing.

COF while you see it as only biting back when provoked to outsiders it often looks different than you seem to say it. Your clanmates and you are sick of josko and kort because of what they say and josko and kort are sick of you because of what you say...is all of this hate really necessary? You can act like you and TOFU have had no part in this escalation if you would like but that doesnt make it the truth.

Also josko is an idiot when it comes to CC politics, common courtesy, form etiquette and well combine this with the fact that english is not his first language and it makes for a lot of misunderstandings. While this may sound mean to josko i do not have the intentions of being mean. Maybe if you were to take your time and explain things in laymen terms or just ignore him all together you would not be finding yourself in the situation you are currently.

Oh and lastly while you say now that you will fight tooth and nail to get this warning extinguished from your record it is not true. You say you will continue to address the issue and when you say it you mean it, but eventually people stop listening hell they even get annoyed at the continuation of discussion of the topic and then you are left with 2 options. Stay and let go of it or leave the site in protest but if the C&A team does not overturn the decision here and now they are never going to no matter how much smoke you blow in their faces.

I dont really care where this goes but it is getting old and well because of the difference in reputation josko seems to be getting the short end of the stick here which doesn't seam fair.

[Chariot of Fire]

Oh and lastly while you say now that you will fight tooth and nail to get this warning extinguished from your record it is not true.

lol, how can this not be true? Who are you to know how vehemently I'll protest this case?

Maybe if you'd said ".....but it probably won't do you any good" then I may be inclined to agree. But to say what I will or won't do is like telling me I'm not going to go downstairs now for a beer and put my feet up to watch the golf, which I am.

It does strike me that you like to do a lot of talking about a case of which you've said "I dont really care where this goes but it is getting old"

Just ignore it then mate, and let me fight my own corner. This case is about me and Pedro and others and should be treated independently of the case against josko.

cheers

[ljex]

Oh and lastly while you say now that you will fight tooth and nail to get this warning extinguished from your record it is not true.

lol, how can this not be true? Who are you to know how vehemently I'll protest this case?

Maybe if you'd said ".....but it probably won't do you any good" then I may be inclined to agree. But to say what I will or won't do is like telling me I'm not going to go downstairs now for a beer and put my feet up to watch the golf, which I am.

It does strike me that you like to do a lot of talking about a case of which you've said "I dont really care where this goes but it is getting old"

Just ignore it then mate, and let me fight my own corner. This case is about me and Pedro and others and should be treated independently of the case against josko.

cheers

1) the josko case should be considered as it was a precedent
2) dont care what the result ultimately is but i do like to be informed on what the rules are, as this one is not clearly defined i am paying attention to the case.
3) i know you will eventually give up because eventually no one will bother to listen and will you then continue to make a fool of yourself by posting about it? I have no doubt that you will never give up hope on its reversal but you are smart enough that you will stop making a constant fuss about it if this ruling is upheld.

[Metsfanmax]

Perhaps they are hoping this will just quietly fade away? I'd rather it didn't and I'll fight tooth and nail to clear my name as I have never sat for another player to gain an advantage.

Based on this, I would hope you see josko's point! josko truly believes he is innocent of the crime he was convicted of, and is doing whatever it takes to clear his name. In this case, he is attempting to point out that others do the same thing he was accused of, but it's not because he has an axe to grind against you -- it's because he just wants to clear his name. It may not be the most mature way of settling the issue, but it's based on the same motive that you now operate on.

[Chariot of Fire]

Thing is Mets by accusing others it doesn't clear one's own name. If, as you say, josko believes he is innocent of any wrongdoing (which I don't think he does) then he should defend himself.

If I start looting from shops I can't absolve myself by pointing a finger at other looters and saying "But look, they're doing the same".

So I don't think josko is attempting to clear his name here. Instead he has chosen to bring to light other examples that he believes have been done in similar vein. I have no problem with that - he's perfectly entitled to.

What does bother me though is that I've taken the time to submit a valid defence, yet this seems to have been conveniently overlooked.

How would you like to take an eight week break from the site, as I did, and return to find you've received a warning for something you're not guilty of and post an explanation that is being ignored? I expect you'd feel as indignant as I do right now.

[Metsfanmax]

Thing is Mets by accusing others it doesn't clear one's own name. If, as you say, josko believes he is innocent of any wrongdoing (which I don't think he does) then he should defend himself.

If I start looting from shops I can't absolve myself by pointing a finger at other looters and saying "But look, they're doing the same".

It could clear his name indirectly. josko's point was not to get you in trouble. Rather, it was to show that since everyone does it, it should not be considered against the rules. In your analogy, this is the equivalent to trying to get the police to agree that looting shops is not illegal.