Conquer Club

Accused:

anonymus

The accused are suspected of:

Point Dumping to set himself up for May monthly leader awards.

I have started the game list to show what his score was when he started this...all the games are in order

Game 14328901
2014-04-22 18:51:47 - Game has been initialized
2014-04-22 18:51:47 - anonymus has a score of 2158.

Game 14331652 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14331661 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14331885 anonymus: ok 1 more end of month i dont need this much points beginning of next
Game 14331909 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14331910 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14331913 anonymus: ill take revanch on some map with a bit less luck beginning of next month;)
Game 14332625 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14332629 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14332978 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14336430 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14336558 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14337200 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14337330 anonymus: and i dont mind loosing a bit of points before the new month starst so i can get a shiny medal for getting back up there next month .........anonymus: but not being the pointdumping type i just join a bit more stupid settings-games towards the end now
Game 14337596 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14337623 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14337769 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14337934 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14337945 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14338224 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14340767 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14347605 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14347613 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14347689 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14347844 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14347904 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14348220 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14349446anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14350003anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14351105 anonymus: well i dont mind losing some points so all fine by me but strange moves
Game 14351338anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14351344anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14351506anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14351590anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14351809anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14351816anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14351836 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14351846anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14351936anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14354842anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14354891anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14355823
Game 14355981 anonymus: and i dont mind losing to blue before end of month.....anonymus: id rather lose a bit more points to blue in the end of the month anyways
Game 14356021 anonymus: i dont mind losing 2 days before end of the monh.....anonymus: yeah ill try to get down to around 1000 before shift and then go back up to colonel atleast.. maybe even restarin myself and go to brig.....anonymus: but im not pointdumping just joining stupid crapgames and new month begings ill just stop with that (hopefully ill be able to)
Game 14358864 anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14358965anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14359102anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14362879anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14362883anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14362896anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14363674anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14363969anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14364021anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14364360anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14364490anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14364503anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14364517anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14364756anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14364824anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14364954anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14365197anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns
Game 14365251anonymus was kicked out for missing too many turns

Comments:

There are other games he didn't show up in but they ended before he got kicked out as they were assasin and don't usually last long

Another month and another noob trying to cheat the scoreboard......

Ouch !!

anonymus has been temporarily banned while this is sorted out to prevent more deadbeating until this is sorted out

you give a medal and a prize for doing this, don't be surprised that people do it.

betiko wrote:you give a medal and a prize for doing this, don't be surprised that people do it.

The only thing that surprises me is when the people who do it are surprised by the punishment

BGtheBrain wrote:

betiko wrote:you give a medal and a prize for doing this, don't be surprised that people do it.

The only thing that surprises me is when the people who do it are surprised by the punishment

lol true. nevertheless, it's very easy to point dump legally. just create/join millions of doodle/luxembourg 8 player speed freestyle assassin and don't try too hard. just don't make something as obvious as what anonymus did, and you can get a most improved player medal the next month. just make sure you get a really crappy score by the end of the month.
otherwise you get banned for a month, go down to 270 points like NOS and the month after you get the most improved player of the month award and you win a premium. therefore, you get back the premium you just got stripped for cheating for free. it's really a fanastic system.

betiko wrote:

BGtheBrain wrote:

betiko wrote:you give a medal and a prize for doing this, don't be surprised that people do it.

The only thing that surprises me is when the people who do it are surprised by the punishment

lol true. nevertheless, it's very easy to point dump legally. just create/join millions of doodle/luxembourg 8 player speed freestyle assassin and don't try too hard. just don't make something as obvious as what anonymus did, and you can get a most improved player medal the next month. just make sure you get a really crappy score by the end of the month.
otherwise you get banned for a month, go down to 270 points like NOS and the month after you get the most improved player of the month award and you win a premium. therefore, you get back the premium you just got stripped for cheating for free. it's really a fanastic system.

sounds like a fantastic plan except that NoS got an indefinite website ban for his activities.

hopefully anonymus won't suffer the same consequences....

And yes, it is amazing how far people are willing to go for a cartoon picture and a few credits but while I agree that the scoreboard is a reason we're seeing some of these issues the main reason is because some people are just inherently dishonest/poor sports to start with.

trinicardinal wrote:

betiko wrote:

BGtheBrain wrote:

betiko wrote:you give a medal and a prize for doing this, don't be surprised that people do it.

The only thing that surprises me is when the people who do it are surprised by the punishment

lol true. nevertheless, it's very easy to point dump legally. just create/join millions of doodle/luxembourg 8 player speed freestyle assassin and don't try too hard. just don't make something as obvious as what anonymus did, and you can get a most improved player medal the next month. just make sure you get a really crappy score by the end of the month.
otherwise you get banned for a month, go down to 270 points like NOS and the month after you get the most improved player of the month award and you win a premium. therefore, you get back the premium you just got stripped for cheating for free. it's really a fanastic system.

sounds like a fantastic plan except that NoS got an indefinite website ban for his activities.

hopefully anonymus won't suffer the same consequences....

And yes, it is amazing how far people are willing to go for a cartoon picture and a few credits but while I agree that the scoreboard is a reason we're seeing some of these issues the main reason is because some people are just inherently dishonest/poor sports to start with.

trini, in any modern video game there are trophies/achievements and such. if going for a medal may sound ridiculous, then making a fuss about it and any rule bent only related to a game is just as ridiculous.
Something has been created on the site that is meant to be abused
a) best monthly performance: start tons of games, rush the winners and leave the losers for the next month
b) most improved: start the month with 1000 points ish, just make it back to major

it is absolutely impossible for a captain and up to be the most improved player of the month. the only way to be the most improved is to have a score that can be doubled up easy.
If you don't want people to do something, then don't tempt them with a candy and then hit them on the face for trying to grab the candy. I've been saying it ever since I've seen this thing created.

sdh wrote:Another month and another noob trying to cheat the scoreboard......

anonymus is hardly a noob. Guesting makes things a bit difficult for clan games........ Looks pretty bad, I would like anon to be allowed to explain himself. I know he has recently come back to CC, after a while away. In the past he like a lot of us has found it difficult balancing CC game load and work load/real life. Could be a case of just saying f*ck it.

Maybe this monthly scoreboard deal can be weighted against a player's mean score over a longer period of time. I know people will still find ways to cheat the system, but it's generating more of these point dumping cases.

I was actually really surprised when I got my medal for last month.

BoganGod wrote:

sdh wrote:Another month and another noob trying to cheat the scoreboard......

anonymus is hardly a noob. Guesting makes things a bit difficult for clan games........ Looks pretty bad, I would like anon to be allowed to explain himself. I know he has recently come back to CC, after a while away. In the past he like a lot of us has found it difficult balancing CC game load and work load/real life. Could be a case of just saying f*ck it.

Sorry, I don't mean that, but it is a silly thing to do. Maybe he didn't realise what he was doing is against the rules but it's pretty clear from some of the game chats that he wanted to lose some points for the monthly scoreboard. I hope he doesn't get banned but if the mods don't send a clear message this will keep happening every month.

macbone wrote:Maybe this monthly scoreboard deal can be weighted against a player's mean score over a longer period of time. I know people will still find ways to cheat the system, but it's generating more of these point dumping cases.

I was actually really surprised when I got my medal for last month.

what you got is the monthly leader, but the most improved is absolutely impossible to get if you don't start the month with a noob score. Anonymous went for that. Can we really blame him to try the only way possible to get the medal?

betiko wrote:

BGtheBrain wrote:

betiko wrote:you give a medal and a prize for doing this, don't be surprised that people do it.

The only thing that surprises me is when the people who do it are surprised by the punishment

lol true. nevertheless, it's very easy to point dump legally. just create/join millions of doodle/luxembourg 8 player speed freestyle assassin and don't try too hard. just don't make something as obvious as what anonymus did, and you can get a most improved player medal the next month. just make sure you get a really crappy score by the end of the month.
otherwise you get banned for a month, go down to 270 points like NOS and the month after you get the most improved player of the month award and you win a premium. therefore, you get back the premium you just got stripped for cheating for free. it's really a fanastic system.

Wow Betiko you put some thought into that, but you looking for a win any way is not surprise to me........ so when you going to dump your points? let me know i will be happy to take some off you!

smegal69 wrote:

betiko wrote:

BGtheBrain wrote:

betiko wrote:you give a medal and a prize for doing this, don't be surprised that people do it.

The only thing that surprises me is when the people who do it are surprised by the punishment

lol true. nevertheless, it's very easy to point dump legally. just create/join millions of doodle/luxembourg 8 player speed freestyle assassin and don't try too hard. just don't make something as obvious as what anonymus did, and you can get a most improved player medal the next month. just make sure you get a really crappy score by the end of the month.
otherwise you get banned for a month, go down to 270 points like NOS and the month after you get the most improved player of the month award and you win a premium. therefore, you get back the premium you just got stripped for cheating for free. it's really a fanastic system.

Wow Betiko you put some thought into that, but you looking for a win any way is not surprise to me........ so when you going to dump your points? let me know i will be happy to take some off you!

We had enough doodle crack addicts when i was in the pack to know how easy their score could fluctuate from one day to the next. Some guys could go from colonel to caporal to brig in 3 days with those 8 player speed assassin doodle. No need to put a lot of thought on how to lose your rank easy and legally and without even doing it on purpose. At the end of the day it s all about game selection.

Just to reinforce why I made this report anonymus is already top of the May monthly most improved scoreboard and he is only a Sergeant. If he plays at his normal level of play he will easily get to Colonel before the month is out

When high ranked people do it deliberately (I know the jury is out on why anonymus' score plummeted) they should get vacationed, removed from the monthly scoreboard and a score reset back up to 2000 points to make it fair to other players on their return. That way they are not reaping any later benefits. Banning these players/clowns indefinitely is a bit harsh imo.

Nope, permaban in this instance..it's pretty clear. On another note get rid of this from the scoreboard it's just stupid in it's current format. Sorry Anonymus but it's just to blatant as to your intentions. Big Wham fail!!!!

Agent 86 wrote:Nope, permaban in this instance..it's pretty clear. On another note get rid of this from the scoreboard it's just stupid in it's current format. Sorry Anonymus but it's just to blatant as to your intentions. Big Wham fail!!!!

lol, a permaban for this? you are out of your mind. for doing this you think he deserves to never come back again on the site? how are you going to determine when someone isn't trying hard enough to win, or when he simply leaves his account during a week without sitter or whatever... what exactly is the prejudice? some guys are getting points they might or they might not have won and when he comes back some guys will lose more points that they should against him and win less. there are a lot of player's whose score flutuates a lot. are you ging to ban them too for not having enough point stability? then the site makes dumb challenges like this month where you just need to join 150 games without winning any.
You are perfectly right about one thing: this scoreboard thing is a huge fail. I'm kind of ok with the best monthly player with the powerscore, but the most improved is dumb, unfair and pushes people to do what anonymus did.

Remove one of his testicles and give it back to him after 3 months.


Honestly, punishing point dumping is kinda silly. People point dump often enough without being caught because it is so easy to legitimately do; therefore, the 'spirit of the game' and the 'unfairness' arguments don't mean much. In cases like the OP's, enforcement only punishes the stupid and/or lazy for not legitimately point dumping.

anonymus is banned for 30 days as a result of point dumping.

I would discourage from players repeating similar behavior to avoid problems in the future.

Ok so im back, how about a explanation as to why i got a 30 day ban without any prior infraction and why all evidence i provided where blatantly disregarded? BG? any comments?

/

Per community guidelines 1st offense point dumping is a 30 day website ban.

Regarding the disregard of evidence. The case was closely looked at by the C&A department and you are aware of the conclusion we came to.

If you'd like to appeal the decision, contact admin via pm or e-ticket.

Could you explain the difference in your punishment scales please...
The pershing and celliotti case where evident point dumping were occurring, a warning was given for the first offense and a 1 month ban given for the second offense, and just a ban from playing together for the sd.
Where I saw the listed penalty for point dumping is 1 month for first offense, I thought you were being lenient in the other case. However, after seeing this, I am not so sure. Apparently there are other scales that are not so obvious for every player to understand. Could you shed some light on this?

To be clear it WAS point dumping AND game throwing. They were throwing the game for the purpose of giving points to another player which is expressly defined in the point dumping rule.

Thanks,

J

This case was point dumping which is a special infraction, which has its own escalation scale

I didnt' handle the other case, but it was for game throwing. That is a major infraction and follows the Warning, 30-day, permaban scale.

Weve got Major, Minor, or Special. I hope that helps.

BGtheBrain wrote:This case was point dumping which is a special infraction, which has its own escalation scale

I didnt' handle the other case, but it was for game throwing. That is a major infraction and follows the Warning, 30-day, permaban scale.

Weve got Major, Minor, or Special. I hope that helps.

Thanks BG. It does somewhat. However, I don't understand how it got classified only under game throwing. How was it determined that it fit there as opposed to the point dumping rule? There was obviously intent to 'pass points to other people', which is clearly defined within the point dumping definition.

jghost7 wrote:I do not know any specific details from the games. That being said, I think the pertinent question is whether "point-splitting" is legal under the site rules.

From the Community Guidelines:

Community Guidelines wrote:Point Dumping

If you are found guilty of Point Dumping, that is, the intentional losing of games via any means, with the intention of causing chaos in the form of griefing, passing points to other people, or manually "resetting" points to a lower score.

Note: Because of the nature of Point Dumping, your account will be suspended upon discovery, and will remain suspended to protect the account and the website during the investigation. The Investigative Suspension is not factored into Disciplinary Time Served.

Point Dumping Infraction disciplinary levels are as follows:
1. 1 Month Website Vacation
2. Permanent Website Vacation
Note: Users retain the right to rebuttal via E-tickets as with any Infraction.

It would seem that this action is in direct violation of this rule. It is not even in a grey area. It is not permitted now, nor should it ever be. There is too much potential for cheating and abuse.

Thanks,

J

I also see where game throwing and illegal point collecting are listed as major infractions as well, but they are listed separately. I would assume from this as they can be done independently from one another and hence have their own charge. So, if you classified this in the major infractions category, would you then be charged with 1 count of game throwing, and 1 count of illegal point collecting? If guilty would you then skip to the second step of the punishment scale?

But since this is more clearly and comprehensively covered in the point dumping rule, would it not be more prudent to cover it under this rule? Wouldn't the result, if fairly applied, be the same?

Here is another question;

Point Splitting, or 'Point Sharing' as ES labeled it, was not directly addressed under his reply to the charges. I am assuming since he stated after defining it, that deliberately throwing games is illegal, then by definition 'Point Sharing' is also illegal? I think that this is an important point from that case, his quote below:

Evil Semp wrote:Point sharing is an agreement which two [or more] players from a multi player game agree to let one of them win and then let the other win multiple 1v1 games to even out the points from the multi player game. Deliberately throwing a games is not allowed and is considered a major infraction.

Pershing has received a WARNING for game throwing. This is his second major infraction so he will also receive a 1 MONTH VACATION from CC.

Doing our research we found several more members of CC who engaged in this activity with Pershing. Ciglione, aglenist and celliottii also have received WARNINGS for game throwing. All players mentioned here have also been blocked from playing any ore games together.

There may or may not be more warnings issued as we dig further into this sink hole.

I would just like to know so that when it comes back up again, we will know what to expect. I can see how it could be classified under both special and major, but I would expect in the case of Point Splitting or 'Point Sharing', either designation would end up with similar punishments.

I think that it specifically needs to be stated as such in order to deter future instances of it.

Thanks for the help,

J



ps
I will copy this over to the other thread as it pertains more to that case. Thanks again. J