Closed josko.ri [ka]

[iAmCaffeine]

Accused:
josko.ri

The accused are suspected of:
Gross abuse of the game

Game number(s):
Game 17403066
Game 17403035
Game 17400315
Game 17399158
the list continues..

Unwritten Rules

Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits and colluding with other players in any way to manipulate the scoring system.

Josko is a player with the ability of a Brigadier+ playing his normal games, arguably higher. It is no secret that he regularly aims to medal from the Most Improved leaderboard. The games above, and nearly all of his recent games in the last few pages, are poly (2), manual on Doodle Earth and Luxembourg. Josko is timing this "to get his manual and poly medals" perfectly to coincide with the next month so that he can abuse the system and gain another medal from the Most Improved. Even winning most of these dumping games, he knows he loses points, as has already been demonstrated by ooge in GD.

This is gross abuse of the monthly improvement leaderboard and prevents players who have genuinely been improving from earning their rightful prizes. Josko is taking advantage of the system and it's disgusting. He's a brigadier/general who earns a medal by climbing from major back to his former rank, after "legally" point dumping. What about the players who've genuinely played well all month, who are actually improving? They are effectively being cheated out of a medal.

This may not fall under point dumping, but it's sure as hell gross abuse of the game.

There have been precedents set over the years in regards to changes to farming; what is allowed, what isn't allowed etc. I think it's about time new precedents are set regarding what's allowed in achieving the Most Improved medals. The system is cheated enough and josko has always been a serial abuser. It's about time something was done.

[osman76]

It is a weak point of the system, we can't accuse any player if he loses games at the end of the month. My opinion is to change or cancel the award for the monthly leader and most improved. May be some credits or stars are enough, this will prevent medal hunters to perform this tactic..

[iAmCaffeine]

Indeed, the system is flawed, but where does the blame lie for those who grossly abuse that system? Who makes the decision to take advantage of it and deny genuine players the rewards they deserve?

[BoganGod]

Nice try, but josko is a protected species. You might have to demonstrate that the rules do apply to josko, previous CC case law would suggest they don't. The weaponized autism to prosecute your case maybe found on 4chan, if you have the dedication to search.

[iAmCaffeine]

There is no denying he is abusing the system. It's an injustice to those who actually deserve and earn the medals. Does he deserve them for going from major to brigadier (his real rank)?

[BoganGod]

There is no denying he is abusing the system. It's an injustice to those who actually deserve and earn the medals. Does he deserve them for going from major to brigadier (his real rank)?

Please note, am playing devils advocate, I'm not josko and these are mere imagining based on available evidence and posts. "He feels entitled to the medal, and to do as he wills. Deserving has no meaning in his vocabulary, he feels that he is owed the medal, that it is already rightfully his."

Of course things could well be nothing like how they appear.

[iAmCaffeine]

I know what you're doing don't worry lmao. There is no denying that josko is abusing the system. That is irrefutable. The question is will the admins finally set a precedent that this kind of bullshit is not going to be tolerated on Conquer Club, or will this get closed, thereby giving free reign for everyone to abuse the system and find "legitimate" ways to dump their points in order to deny deserving, hard working players their rightful prizes? How long are those in charge going to let players like josko make a mockery of a system they put in place to reward improving players, up and coming talent? I'm calling for a precedent to be set with this case.

[BoganGod]

The other josko thread is interesting reading, looking at the game log in that game shows clear game throwing.

[fairman]

I'm not a big fan of Josko (he already accused me here )
But I don't see any cheating here.
I joined 3 of his games (made it one by one), because I wanted him for the manual and other acheivement.
He beat me twice and I won only after the third try.
So he did not intentionnaly loosing games.

Game 17394317
Game 17393818
Game 17396460

Second point is that he is creating the game, so he is not choosing the level of his opponents.

Last point, The 2 games that he won, he could have easily delay them on the month of may.

So yes it's obvious that he is trying to reduce his score, but every medal hunter knows that the hunt of the manual medal cost lot of points.
So you can optimize it by one month focus on manual achievement and next month focus on monthly leader.

[BoganGod]

I'm not a big fan of Josko (he already accused me here )
But I don't see any cheating here.
I joined 3 of his games (made it one by one), because I wanted him for the manual and other acheivement.
He beat me twice and I won only after the third try.
So he did not intentionnaly loosing games.

Game 17394317
Game 17393818
Game 17396460

Second point is that he is creating the game, so he is not choosing the level of his opponents.

Last point, The 2 games that he won, he could have easily delay them on the month of may.

So yes it's obvious that he is trying to reduce his score, but every medal hunter knows that the hunt of the manual medal cost lot of points.
So you can optimize it by one month focus on manual achievement and next month focus on monthly leader.

josko has a long history of accusing people of things in C&A then doing something very similar himself. See his accusing ronc of dumping points as a recent example of double standards and "inventive" thinking. Is so obvious to all sincere, intelligent observers what deceit josko is pulling. This underhand behaviour is nothing new, he is just a bit too proud of his grubby anything at any cost approach. If it was within the rules to beat kittens to death with a toothbrush, you wouldn't find many players willing to do so in public, proudly saying it isn't against the rules. We have one such player here, someone that would suggest the kitten deserved to die for standing between him and a shiny medal.
#kittenlivesmatter #toothbrushesforteethonly #Istandwithkittens #stoptheminutekilling #protecttomorrow'scats

[josko.ri]

I do not know for what I am accused based by your evidence?
What is my fault?
Am I not free to play games on simple maps, as much as I want, as long as I play my best abilities to win every single game?

You say that my abilities are to be General or Brigadier, which is true if I play complicated maps with a lot of strategy involved. In that case I achieve winning percentage of above 80% and that puts my rank high.

But, when I am playing simple maps versus whoever wants to join my games, then my abilities are not to be Brigadier or General but they are around Major. Players' rank depends not only about his abilities but also about which kind of games did he recently played. Good example is Great-Ollie, his abilities when he plays his the best maps are to be General if not Conqueror, but since he is playing a lot of games for fun on simple maps (just like I did this month) then his score is regularly around Major or Colonel and he also already won The Most Improved Medal twice because one month he played simple games for fun and the following month he played games on his the best maps and nobody had any objections.

This month I was medal hunting for Manual and Polymorphic medal and the easiest way to take these medals was to play the most simple maps Luxembourg and Doodle Earth. FYI, I just won the desired medal:
Polymorphic Achievement
Award Time: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:01 am
Award Reason: Met requirements for Gold

While playing these Luxembourg and Doodle Earth maps, I have achieved score 150-88 (63%) so during this month I won 62 more games than I lost on these simple maps. That shows clearly that in every single game I put my best efforts to win and did not throw any game to my opponent. You would have the case if I lost more games than I won but, seriously, after I win 62 more games than I lose, how you can claim that I did anything against rules related to point dumping? I was playing games on simple maps where I could score quick wins for medal hunting and in every single game I put my best efforts to win. I lose more points than how much I gained because lower ranked players were mostly joining my games, but that is not my fault, games were Public so everyone was free to join and play versus me.

Additionally, if I wanted to point dump my score before May, then I could play turns slowly in winning games on Luxembourg and Doodle earth maps and finish them in May, while playing quickly only games that I was losing. But I did not do so, I played equally quick both winning and losing games on these maps, like fairman confirmed for his 3 games in his the post above.

[josko.ri]

josko has a long history of accusing people of things in C&A then doing something very similar himself. See his accusing ronc of dumping points as a recent example of double standards and "inventive" thinking.

It is quite funny you can even think about comparing two cases.

I lost my points by winning 150 games and losing 88 games on Doodle Earth and Luxembourg maps.

ronc deadbeated 28 games in a row without playing single turn in them, consequently making his starting score in March to be about 1100.

How can the two examples even theoretically be compared that you say that I do something "very similar" by myself?

[BoganGod]

josko has a long history of accusing people of things in C&A then doing something very similar himself. See his accusing ronc of dumping points as a recent example of double standards and "inventive" thinking.

It is quite funny you can even think about comparing two cases.

I lost my points by winning 150 games and losing 88 games on Doodle Earth and Luxembourg maps.

ronc deadbeated 28 games in a row without playing single turn in them, consequently making his starting score in March to be about 1100.

How can the two examples even theoretically be compared that you say that I do something "very similar" by myself?

Point dumping, though his was unintentional, you however knew that you would lose a lot of points. Both of you lost a lot of points.
#Istandwithkittens #kitten'slivesmatter #Savetomorrow'scats #Onekittenlostisonetoomany

[josko.ri]

josko has a long history of accusing people of things in C&A then doing something very similar himself. See his accusing ronc of dumping points as a recent example of double standards and "inventive" thinking.

It is quite funny you can even think about comparing two cases.

I lost my points by winning 150 games and losing 88 games on Doodle Earth and Luxembourg maps.

ronc deadbeated 28 games in a row without playing single turn in them, consequently making his starting score in March to be about 1100.

How can the two examples even theoretically be compared that you say that I do something "very similar" by myself?

Point dumping, though his was unintentional, you however knew that you would lose a lot of points. Both of you lost a lot of points.
#Istandwithkittens #kitten'slivesmatter #Savetomorrow'scats #Onekittenlostisonetoomany

I didn't know I will lose points. My games were Public an anyone could join. And I put my best efforts to win every game.

[Extreme Ways]

josko has a long history of accusing people of things in C&A then doing something very similar himself. See his accusing ronc of dumping points as a recent example of double standards and "inventive" thinking.

It is quite funny you can even think about comparing two cases.

I lost my points by winning 150 games and losing 88 games on Doodle Earth and Luxembourg maps.

ronc deadbeated 28 games in a row without playing single turn in them, consequently making his starting score in March to be about 1100.

How can the two examples even theoretically be compared that you say that I do something "very similar" by myself?

Point dumping, though his was unintentional, you however knew that you would lose a lot of points. Both of you lost a lot of points.
#Istandwithkittens #kitten'slivesmatter #Savetomorrow'scats #Onekittenlostisonetoomany

I didn't know I will lose points. My games were Public an anyone could join. And I put my best efforts to win every game.

You can talk all day long about your motive, but you knew you would lose points. This happened last time around too, and you are smart enough to reason that it wasnt a fluke.

ALso your medal timing thingy is funny since Japan is about half a day ahead at least compared to the US so not even 31th yet. I am hoping somebody thinks you lied.

[iAmCaffeine]

The comments from josko and fairman are responding to an accusation of point dumping, but that is not what josko is accused of. The first post clearly outlines that this a gross abuse of the game. Yes, we all know medal hunting generally results in a decrease in rank for top tier players, regardless of win rate. The issue here is that josko is deliberately planning and timing his "medal hunting" to coincide with his run for the most improved medal. He has done this before and continues to do it now, and if nothing happens will keep doing it. Not only is this calculated and deceitful, it is denying other innocent players who have worked hard and actually improved as players the medals they deserve. Is josko actually improving? No, he is faking it and abusing the system.

[josko.ri]

The issue here is that josko is deliberately planning and timing his "medal hunting" to coincide with his run for the most improved medal.

This is not against the site rules.
I can make my "medal hunting" at any time I want and also, I can also play as much as I want Luxembourg and Doodle games even if it is not for medal hunting.
If I want to play games for fun on simple maps, who are you to tell me that I am not allowed to do so?

What about players who start ton of their games at the last day of the month but play only games that they are winning?
Are they not deliberately planning and timing start of their new games to be at the end of the month when they need several more wins to get the Monthly Medal?

So am I accused for timing of my games?
I thought I can play new games on this site whenever I want, but obviously you seem to think different?

[Donelladan]

Everyone should be allowed to play whatever games they want, and it shouldn't matter if it's march, april or june.
If josko want to play lux or doodle, then he has the right to do so.
I don't see how someone could prevent or stop that. And you can't start telling people they can't play doodle in april because they don't in june. Doesn't make any sense.
Ofc josko might win the most improved, because it's calculated in order to. But still, he is allowed to play doodle.

If tomorrow I start having lot of times and I play hundreds of speed games, 1vs1 , my score will go down, if then I have much less time and only play 24h games, my score will go up. It did happen to me without planning it and I won monthly leader for that. I think it's perfectly fine and in agreement with the rule.

I don't think josko is breaking the rule here. People might find it's unethical ( though really, I don't see the problem) to get a medal that way, but it's totally within rule.

Also, remember that monthly leader and most improved are here to reward activity. By playing tons of games, josko is indeed a very active player, and help the site by generating activity. That is the purpose of those medals.

[Extreme Ways]

Everyone should be allowed to play whatever games they want, and it shouldn't matter if it's march, april or june.
If josko want to play lux or doodle, then he has the right to do so.
I don't see how someone could prevent or stop that. And you can't start telling people they can't play doodle in april because they don't in june. Doesn't make any sense.
Ofc josko might win the most improved, because it's calculated in order to. But still, he is allowed to play doodle.

If tomorrow I start having lot of times and I play hundreds of speed games, 1vs1 , my score will go down, if then I have much less time and only play 24h games, my score will go up. It did happen to me without planning it and I won monthly leader for that. I think it's perfectly fine and in agreement with the rule.

I don't think josko is breaking the rule here. People might find it's unethical ( though really, I don't see the problem) to get a medal that way, but it's totally within rule.

Also, remember that monthly leader and most improved are here to reward activity. By playing tons of games, josko is indeed a very active player, and help the site by generating activity. That is the purpose of those medals.

I think what Caff and several others want is to be able to exclude some players from the scoreboards while not punishing them in other ways. If someone is influencing the scoreboard in a negative way (vague enough to handle case-by-case), admin remove that player from scoreboard for that month. It is obvious that Josko won't be the most improved player in terms of skill next month, but he will be in terms of points. Actually rising players not yet capped (tiantiri) are hurt by this behaviour.

[bobdakota]

I think what Caff and several others want is to be able to exclude some players from the scoreboards while not punishing them in other ways. If someone is influencing the scoreboard in a negative way (vague enough to handle case-by-case), admin remove that player from scoreboard for that month. It is obvious that Josko won't be the most improved player in terms of skill next month, but he will be in terms of points. Actually rising players not yet capped (tiantiri) are hurt by this behaviour.

This - Every month the most improve is filled with experienced players that start the month way below where they normally play. It might not be illegal to play a bunch of 1v1 games on small maps, but it is not in the spirit of the game. Josko is medal hunting. There was a thread about how to legally point dump (I couldn't find it) and it was about playing 1v1 on small maps.

[iAmCaffeine]

Josko I'm so tired of your fake ignorance bullshit. You can read the first post. You're English may not be perfect but it's good enough. I'm accusing you of grossly abusing the rules, and I'd wager most of the spoken community agrees. I've said before you're not the only one that does it, but you're a repeat offender and it's time an example was made and a precedent set.

[ronsizzle]

Big Precedent should happen in this case. Big one. One that the community clearly wants. Nobody wants to deal with the shenanigans any longer.

[josko.ri]

Big Precedent should happen in this case. Big one. One that the community clearly wants. Nobody wants to deal with the shenanigans any longer.

Says the one who earned Most Improved Gold medal by deadbeating 28 games in a row to come to 1100 starting score. Can bigger hypocrisy exist?

[riskllama]

Big Precedent should happen in this case. Big one. One that the community clearly wants. Nobody wants to deal with the shenanigans any longer.

Says the one who earned Most Improved Gold medal by deadbeating 28 games in a row to come to 1100 starting score. Can bigger hypocrisy exist?

ronc deadbeated those games and then promptly left the site in disgust for months, i believe. he only recently came back, no? also yeah, bigger hypocrisy exists, his name is ...

[iAmCaffeine]

Now a captain. You're so proud you're delusional.

Well, I only meant, don't try to hide that losing tons of points is at your advantage, and that you are using this as a technique to get the most improved medal.
You said it anyway.

Losing points is not a goal, it is consequence or side effect of changing way of playing from complicated to simple maps. In one hand playing simpler maps is beneficial for getting medal hunting quickly (and that is why I am doing it) while in the other hand consequence of playing simple maps as Public games is losing many points because lower ranks join games.

Are you choosing the timing of when you switch from playing complicated to simple maps in such a way that you personally benefit from the timing?

I choose which maps I am playing based by my availability. For example, I start new job on May 1 so I played tons of simple maps in order to achieve Gold Polymorphic medal before that because after May 1 I will not have a lot of free time for CC anymore. I achieved my goal of getting Gold Polymorphic medal on April 30 and since then I will not make any new games on simple maps because my medal hunting goal is achieved.

I Don't think I will have enough free time in May to play complicated maps.

So on that basis, in May, you won't have enough time to get a medal on the most improved leaderboard. Let's see what happens.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=222789&p=4932746#p4932746

I'm curious as to why you didn't mention this from beginning. Your initial reaction was to defend your actions. How peculiar.