[Abandoned] - A New Asia Map

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Re: A New Asia Map

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:09 pm

I prefer Dim's allocation of areas in Asia, it seems more natural to me.

And that little dip in China's western border... isn't that Chinese Kashmir and part of China?
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Re: A New Asia Map

Postby natty dread on Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:14 pm

gobble gobble!

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Re: A New Asia Map

Postby grifftron on Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:25 pm

natty_dread wrote:gobble gobble!

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lol. So is there an actually draft of this map yet? I have not yet seen peter post a draft? or am i not seeing it? Very interested as I live here in Asia :D

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Re: A New Asia Map

Postby natty dread on Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:34 pm

mr. benn posted the draft on page 1
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Re: A New Asia Map

Postby MrBenn on Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:53 pm

Evil DIMwit wrote:Here's an alternative bonus distribution that, to me, makes a bit more sense:

Click image to enlarge.
image


Certain borders might need to either be exaggerated or glossed over, like Afghanistan-China and North Korea-Russia. The Middle East rectangle from Qatar to Lebanon might have to be in an insert because of the smallness of the countries involved.

After a little bit of thought, I was going to suggest something a bit more like that; although I still think there need to be some smaller regions to give people somewhere to start.

I've spent the evening looking at map projections (http://www.quadibloc.com/maps/mapint.htm :? ), and have found an Azimuthal equidistant projection that makes the Middle East a bit bigger without distorting the rest of the continent. I'll sketch out the new land borders at some point over the weekend I imagine; in the meantime, any further suggestions for groupings would be gratefully received.

I see the sense in keeping all of Russia as a single continent, although the Transcontinental region made a nice little starting bloc.
It makes sense to add Kazakhstan to the region with the other -stans which also makes that bloc defendable.
The Middle East will link up with India via an ocean route between socotra (Yemenese Islands) and the Lakshadweep islands.
I like the grouping for India that DIMwit suggested, although I expect we might need an impassable between nepal/bhutan and china?
With Indonesia, we'll need to decide what to do with Malaysia, which occupies two separate landmasses. I included Papua New Guinea for completeness, even though it isn't technically in Asia!
Japan and the Japanese islands could make for a nice small bonus, separate from China.

That's just some random thoughts for now!
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Re: A New Asia Map

Postby Evil DIMwit on Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:24 pm

MrBenn wrote:After a little bit of thought, I was going to suggest something a bit more like that; although I still think there need to be some smaller regions to give people somewhere to start.

In the Middle East, we could separate the Arabian Peninsula from the Fertile Crescent.

MrBenn wrote:I like the grouping for India that DIMwit suggested, although I expect we might need an impassable between nepal/bhutan and china?

Agreed; it makes both geographic and gameplay sense.
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Re: A New Asia Map

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:38 pm

Hmm... I think a Japan, Japanese Islands, South Korea, Taiwan bonus could work well as a small area.

Might as well include Papua New Guinea... its on the same damn island.

If it were the Malay Peninsula then I would say through it in that South East Asian group. But since its a multiple land area thing... Include it in the other bonus and keep it one country. I think Indonesia made a grab for it after both Malaysia and Indonesia got independence and the Malay's repelled the invader quite well.

I believe Phuket is not a country. Neither is Andaman and Nicobar, Sokotra, or Lakshadweep... Shouldn't Indonesia be one space? If the idea is to depict every country, then stick to it... which presents an interesting situation for Taiwan...
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Re: A New Asia Map

Postby Evil DIMwit on Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:11 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:If the idea is to depict every country, then stick to it... which presents an interesting situation for Taiwan...


Surely some exception can be made here. Look at the Europa map: Denmark, the Faroe Islands, and Greenland are all different territories; as are the constituents of the United Kingdom; as are Russia and Kaliningrad. It makes perfect sense that Taiwan be separate from mainland China -- you might even go so far as to separate Hong Kong/Macau from the rest of the country.
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Re: A New Asia Map

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:29 pm

Evil DIMwit wrote:Surely some exception can be made here. Look at the Europa map: Denmark, the Faroe Islands, and Greenland are all different territories; as are the constituents of the United Kingdom; as are Russia and Kaliningrad. It makes perfect sense that Taiwan be separate from mainland China -- you might even go so far as to separate Hong Kong/Macau from the rest of the country.


Yeah, that's a good point. Taiwan does in fact have autonomy despite lack of recognition. HK and Macao are similar really. I could see them having their own territories as well. I feel differently about places like Phuket and some of those obscure islands in the Indian Ocean. Likewise for each of the Indonesian islands. It should all be one.
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Re: A New Asia Map

Postby Peter Gibbons on Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:50 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:
Evil DIMwit wrote:Surely some exception can be made here. Look at the Europa map: Denmark, the Faroe Islands, and Greenland are all different territories; as are the constituents of the United Kingdom; as are Russia and Kaliningrad. It makes perfect sense that Taiwan be separate from mainland China -- you might even go so far as to separate Hong Kong/Macau from the rest of the country.


Yeah, that's a good point. Taiwan does in fact have autonomy despite lack of recognition. HK and Macao are similar really. I could see them having their own territories as well. I feel differently about places like Phuket and some of those obscure islands in the Indian Ocean. Likewise for each of the Indonesian islands. It should all be one.
This was my initial thought, too.

Taiwan and Palestine both have some recognition and I tend to think we should use them--unless we don't need to (or if including Palestine is too difficult given the geography).

I'd be wary of using Hong Kong and Macau since they are A) so tiny and B) have lost autonomy, rather than gained it. But if using them helps the map, I'm all for it.

Indonesia is an interesting case. I was going to firmly state we shouldn't divide it, but then I think of the Balearics, Corsica, Sardinia and Sicily on the Europa map. I think if we stick with the larger islands like Borneo, Java and Sumatra, we could have something. Japan is tougher, though.

I'm going to think about it a little and present a list of the territories I think we should use.

Also, in order to focus gameplay, I really believe that the first big decision has to be what to do with Russia. The "European Russia" and "Asia Russia" is one option, but that sort of defeats the purpose of it only being an Asian map. What do people think of Russia being a starting neutral then a +1 autodeploy?
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Re: A New Asia Map

Postby Evil DIMwit on Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:08 am

Peter Gibbons wrote:Indonesia is an interesting case. I was going to firmly state we shouldn't divide it, but then I think of the Balearics, Corsica, Sardinia and Sicily on the Europa map. I think if we stick with the larger islands like Borneo, Java and Sumatra, we could have something. Japan is tougher, though.


Well, right now if we count country by country, we have:
show


We get 48-49 territories (unless I missed something). In that light, splitting up Indonesia/Malaysia could be a good way to get it up to a proper number of territories -- 52, 53, or 57.
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Re: A New Asia Map

Postby MrBenn on Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:31 pm

Europa has 56 territories in total, with 3 neutrals to bring it down to 53 starts. Ideally it would be nice to try and make this map at least the same size if not a little bit bigger, which is why I added in anything that looked like it could be named! :lol:

That said, I'm not fixated on anything in particular - I'm going to try and leave some of this early decision-making to MrGibbons ;-)
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Re: A New Asia Map

Postby MrBenn on Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:25 pm

Here are some of my thoughts on how territories could be grouped (the number in brackets are territory counts, not bonus values):

Siberia 1-3 - Russia, (Ostrov Sakhalin), (Kuril Islands)
Caucasus 4 - Azerbaijan, Georgia, Armenia, Turkey
Arabia 7-8 - Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, Oman, Yemen, (Socotra), Saudi Arabia, Kuwait
Levant 5-8 - Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Israel, (Palestine?{West Bank/Gaza Strip}), (Cyprus)
Middle Asia 6-7 - Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Iran, {Pakistan*}
The Orient 6-11 - China, (Hainan), (Hong Kong), (Macau), Taiwan, (Tibet?), Mongolia, North Korea, South Korea, Japan, (Japanese Islands??)
Indian Subcontinent 6-9 - Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Nepal, {Pakistan*}, Sri Lanka, (Maldives), (Lakshadweep Islands), (Andaman and Nicobar islands)
Indochina 5-6- Burma, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Vietnam, Peninsular Malaysia*

Malay Archipelego - East Malaysia*, Brunei, (Indonesia**), Philippines, Singapore, East Timor/Timor-Leste, (Papua New Guinea)
( Indonesia** - Java, Sumatra, Sulawesi, Borneo***, Lesser Sunda Islands (Bali etc), New Guinea )
( Borneo**?? - East Malaysia, Brunei, Kalimantan )

To preserve continuity, I think I'd opt against splitting Russia/Malaysia into separate parts, but this is more problematic in the Malay Archipelago... Malalysia could be two distinct terrs in two regions, or a single terr that is in both... Indonesia could be a terr on its own, or a region made up its principal islands. Regional Indonesia could be included in the Malay Archipelago region, or the two could combine with Indochina to make a supercontinent (as per World 2.1)...

These are the questions that will need some serious thought... In the meantime, I've got a new basemap to draw ;-)
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Re: A New Asia Map

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:35 pm

My comments on the continent structure only...

MrBenn wrote:Here are some of my thoughts on how territories could be grouped (the number in brackets are territory counts, not bonus values):

Siberia 1-3 - Russia, (Ostrov Sakhalin), (Kuril Islands) Yes
Caucasus 4 - Azerbaijan, Georgia, Armenia, Turkey Yes
Arabia 7-8 - Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, Oman, Yemen, (Socotra), Saudi Arabia, Kuwait Yes
Levant 5-8 - Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Israel, (Palestine?{West Bank/Gaza Strip}), Yes (Cyprus <- according to wiki part of the european continent and European Union)

Middle Asia 6-7 - Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Iran Yes
The Orient 6-11 - China, (Hainan), (Hong Kong), (Macau), Taiwan, (Tibet?), Mongolia, North Korea, South Korea, Japan, (Japanese Islands??) Yes
Indian Subcontinent 6-9 - Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Nepal, {Pakistan*}, Sri Lanka, (Maldives), (Lakshadweep Islands), (Andaman and Nicobar islands) Yes, with ref to Pakistan, it was part of India ages ago, so belongs in this subgroup
Indochina 5-6- Burma, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Vietnam, Peninsular Malaysia* Yes
Malay Archipelego - East Malaysia*, Brunei, (Indonesia**), Philippines, Singapore, East Timor/Timor-Leste, (Papua New Guinea) <- No. Why not make Phillipines, East Timor, Papua & New Guinea (not Irian Jaya) their own small independant group, and keep Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore as the Malaccas/Malay continent.
( Indonesia** - Java, Sumatra, Sulawesi, Borneo***, Lesser Sunda Islands (Bali etc), New Guinea ) <- New Guinea is Irian Jaya
( Borneo**?? - East Malaysia, Brunei, Kalimantan ) Yes

To preserve continuity, I think I'd opt against splitting Russia/Malaysia into separate parts, but this is more problematic in the Malay Archipelago... Malalysia could be two distinct terrs in two regions, or a single terr that is in both... Indonesia could be a terr on its own, or a region made up its principal islands. Regional Indonesia could be included in the Malay Archipelago region, or the two could combine with Indochina to make a supercontinent (as per World 2.1)...

I think Malaya

These are the questions that will need some serious thought... In the meantime, I've got a new basemap to draw ;-)
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Re: A New Asia Map

Postby Peter Gibbons on Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:25 pm

As I explained to MrBenn, I've taken on another new job (I won't even try to explain my career), so I've been swamped with real-life. But I don't want to abandon this project before it even gets off the ground.

So I think where we stand, after reading what's been written and some PMs with MrBenn, is at the point where we just have to formally decide which territories are in and which are out. MrBenn can't really proceed until then with the gameplay and graphics. I don't intend to impose my will on everyone else, but I suppose I do have to be the final arbiter. So I'll present what I think the territories should be. I do have them grouped in bonus regions, but those regions can and will likely change later. Right now, let's just focus the discussion on whether or not a territory should be included.

In no way do I intend to make any sort of political statement with these selections. Some semi- or formerly autonamous regions I leave off (Hong Kong and Macau) because they seem useless for gameplay. Others I include because I think they will help gameplay, most notably Tibet and Northern Cyprus (which I realize isn't really part of Asia, but it can open up Turkey if it connects to the mainland twice).

Anyway, here are my tentative selections:

RUSSIA: European Russia, Siberia, Ostrov Sakhalin, Kuril Islands, Kamchatka Peninsula (5 territories)
HOLY LAND: Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip (3 territories)
ARAB STATES: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Kuwait, Iraq (5 territories)
ARABIAN PENINSULA: Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, Yemen, Oman, UAE (6 territories)
CAUCUSUS: Turkey, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, North Cyprus (5 territories)
CENTRAL ASIA: Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan (7 territories)
INDIAN SUBCONTINENT: Maldives, Sri Lanka, India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Bhutan (6 territories)
SOUTHEAST ASIA: Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia (7 territories)
ISLANDS: Brunei, Borneo, Sumatra, Bali, Java, East Timor, New Guinea, Indonesia, Philippines (9 territories)
ORIENT: China, Mongolia, North Korea, South Korea, Tibet, Taiwan, Japan (7 territories)

That would give us 61 territories if I've done the math right. I don't know what the optimum starting figures are off-hand, but we can adjust with starting neutrals if need be. Also, I kind of like the idea of including Kashmir in some regard. Maybe as a killer neutral, maybe as a +1 autodeploy or maybe as part of the Indian Subcontinent. The proper nature of Kashmir could be discussed later, but if it's included it gives us 62 territories.

For now, ignoring the bonus groupings and the names of the bonus groupings... does anyone have strong opinions on the list above?
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