Moderator: Cartographers
I've taken on another new job (I won't even try to explain my career
That would give us 61 territories if I've done the math right. I don't know what the optimum starting figures are off-hand, but we can adjust with starting neutrals if need be.
Peter Gibbons wrote:ISLANDS: Brunei, Borneo, Sumatra, Bali, Java, East Timor, New Guinea, Indonesia, Philippines (9 territories)
SultanOfSurreal wrote:I think Russia should be a single territory -- all the countries should be one territory.
And if you make Russia a single territory, you get sort of a two-fer -- it means you can omit depicting most of Russia's north and instead show only part of Russia at the top of the map, leaving more room for the other territories.
skeletonboy wrote:As for hong kong, vatican city was separated from italy in europa
natty_dread wrote:It seems to me that europe and scandinavia have no reason to be on an Asia map... you could maybe tilt and zoom in a bit, to leave them out.
isaiah40 wrote:natty_dread wrote:It seems to me that europe and scandinavia have no reason to be on an Asia map... you could maybe tilt and zoom in a bit, to leave them out.
I'm guess those areas are the non-playable areas.
Industrial Helix wrote:I think the white region ought to be separated into Indian subcontinent, Southeast asia and Far East (China and Japan). But judging by the look of things, that area might not be even near done just yet.
I think the map is going ot have to get a bit bigger... Zoom in and sacrifice the northern coast of Russia and perhaps give it a slight tilt to accommodate the shape better.
natty_dread wrote:isaiah40 wrote:natty_dread wrote:It seems to me that europe and scandinavia have no reason to be on an Asia map... you could maybe tilt and zoom in a bit, to leave them out.I'm guess those areas are the non-playable areas.
All the more reason to show a smaller portion of them. Leaves more room for the actual playing area
(the continent is truly Eurasia)
Peter Gibbons wrote:Well, you're going to have one territory that borders 7 different territories (if you connect to Japan, which I think you must). And those 7 different territories are likely going to be in at least 3 different bonus regions. So if you keep Russia as a single territory, which bonus region will it fall in? I don't think there's a satisfactory answer to that.
So would we keep it a +1 autodeploy? If we do that, on such a large map (~60 territories), one person could claim Russia early and build on it--particularly in 4-player games or fewer. You'd get the +1 and an additional 5 or so armies. So before anyone would card (I'm thinking flat rate here), you could have around 20 armies on Russia and it would be able to deny three of the bonus regions on the board permanently.
In effect, it's not so much a connection issue per se. It's the fact that there's no real way to make Russia the territory that doesn't dominate the map. But, then again, maybe we want that...
cairnswk wrote:My comments on the continent structure only...MrBenn wrote:Here are some of my thoughts on how territories could be grouped (the number in brackets are territory counts, not bonus values):
Siberia 1-3 - Russia, (Ostrov Sakhalin), (Kuril Islands) Yes
Caucasus 4 - Azerbaijan, Georgia, Armenia, Turkey Yes
Arabia 7-8 - Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, Oman, Yemen, (Socotra), Saudi Arabia, Kuwait Yes
Levant 5-8 - Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Israel, (Palestine?{West Bank/Gaza Strip}), Yes (Cyprus <- according to wiki part of the european continent and European Union)
Middle Asia 6-7 - Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Iran Yes
The Orient 6-11 - China, (Hainan), (Hong Kong), (Macau), Taiwan, (Tibet?), Mongolia, North Korea, South Korea, Japan, (Japanese Islands??) Yes
Indian Subcontinent 6-9 - Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Nepal, {Pakistan*}, Sri Lanka, (Maldives), (Lakshadweep Islands), (Andaman and Nicobar islands) Yes, with ref to Pakistan, it was part of India ages ago, so belongs in this subgroup
Indochina 5-6- Burma, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Vietnam, Peninsular Malaysia* Yes
Malay Archipelego - East Malaysia*, Brunei, (Indonesia**), Philippines, Singapore, East Timor/Timor-Leste, (Papua New Guinea) <- No. Why not make Phillipines, East Timor, Papua & New Guinea (not Irian Jaya) their own small independant group, and keep Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore as the Malaccas/Malay continent.
( Indonesia** - Java, Sumatra, Sulawesi, Borneo***, Lesser Sunda Islands (Bali etc), New Guinea ) <- New Guinea is Irian Jaya
( Borneo**?? - East Malaysia, Brunei, Kalimantan ) Yes
To preserve continuity, I think I'd opt against splitting Russia/Malaysia into separate parts, but this is more problematic in the Malay Archipelago... Malalysia could be two distinct terrs in two regions, or a single terr that is in both... Indonesia could be a terr on its own, or a region made up its principal islands. Regional Indonesia could be included in the Malay Archipelago region, or the two could combine with Indochina to make a supercontinent (as per World 2.1)...
I think Malaya
These are the questions that will need some serious thought... In the meantime, I've got a new basemap to draw
Peter Gibbons wrote:As I explained to MrBenn, I've taken on another new job (I won't even try to explain my career), so I've been swamped with real-life. But I don't want to abandon this project before it even gets off the ground.
So I think where we stand, after reading what's been written and some PMs with MrBenn, is at the point where we just have to formally decide which territories are in and which are out. MrBenn can't really proceed until then with the gameplay and graphics. I don't intend to impose my will on everyone else, but I suppose I do have to be the final arbiter. So I'll present what I think the territories should be. I do have them grouped in bonus regions, but those regions can and will likely change later. Right now, let's just focus the discussion on whether or not a territory should be included.
In no way do I intend to make any sort of political statement with these selections. Some semi- or formerly autonamous regions I leave off (Hong Kong and Macau) because they seem useless for gameplay. Others I include because I think they will help gameplay, most notably Tibet and Northern Cyprus (which I realize isn't really part of Asia, but it can open up Turkey if it connects to the mainland twice).
Anyway, here are my tentative selections:
RUSSIA: European Russia, Siberia, Ostrov Sakhalin, Kuril Islands, Kamchatka Peninsula (5 territories)
HOLY LAND: Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip (3 territories)
ARAB STATES: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Kuwait, Iraq (5 territories)
ARABIAN PENINSULA: Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, Yemen, Oman, UAE (6 territories)
CAUCUSUS: Turkey, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, North Cyprus (5 territories)
CENTRAL ASIA: Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan (7 territories)
INDIAN SUBCONTINENT: Maldives, Sri Lanka, India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Bhutan (6 territories)
SOUTHEAST ASIA: Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia (7 territories)
ISLANDS: Brunei, Borneo, Sumatra, Bali, Java, East Timor, New Guinea, Indonesia, Philippines (9 territories)
ORIENT: China, Mongolia, North Korea, South Korea, Tibet, Taiwan, Japan (7 territories)
That would give us 61 territories if I've done the math right. I don't know what the optimum starting figures are off-hand, but we can adjust with starting neutrals if need be. Also, I kind of like the idea of including Kashmir in some regard. Maybe as a killer neutral, maybe as a +1 autodeploy or maybe as part of the Indian Subcontinent. The proper nature of Kashmir could be discussed later, but if it's included it gives us 62 territories.
For now, ignoring the bonus groupings and the names of the bonus groupings... does anyone have strong opinions on the list above?
AndyDufresne wrote:Caspian Sea seems like it would be a fine impassable, and so too maybe the Gobi Desert, a la Mongol Empire. Traditionally well known rivers like the Indus, Ganges, and Ob.
--Andy
isaiah40 wrote:I forgot to mention that I hope you will be doing an inset of the Holy Land to show those territories, as right now I don't think everything is going to fit there.
Industrial Helix wrote:isaiah40 wrote:I forgot to mention that I hope you will be doing an inset of the Holy Land to show those territories, as right now I don't think everything is going to fit there.
Speaking of which... Palestine or Israel? Controversy please!
I suppose a West Bank/Israel/Gaza thing would do though really. I mean, you're recognizing Taiwan on this map which about 8 countries in this world formally do.
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