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[Abandoned] Pixel World

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Which game play options would be better?

Poll ended at Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:42 am

 
Total votes : 0

[Abandoned] Pixel World

Postby BelJoDoe on Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:59 pm

New Poll:

I added a new poll to determine interest in the game play options the map has available to it, the details of both can be found below.
If option 3 is chosen, I will make both XML files, for the 2 types of game that could be fought on this map.
Ultimately, it is my intention for this map to create a fun, interesting game environment for Conquer Club members to play and enjoy.

Please leave comments, as you vote and please read the details of the game play types, described below, before making your vote. Thank you.


UPDATED on the 18th of September

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Map Name: Pixel World

Territories: 323... In order to increase the playable area, I increased the size of the continents, reducing the oceans. Because I increased the continents, they now sit much more tightly together. The larger sizes made available the possibility of adding more countries and some of the populated island chains that are missing on many CC maps, these include the Maldives and the Azores which, with their inclusion, allowed me to make 'bridges', increasing the number of connections between the continents. These things came at the cost of the map looking a little abstract but I think the 300+ territories more than makes up for that.

The map above is the 'small' size. I order to prove that the map can be practical, it must hold 3-digit armies in each territory on the 'small' version. This 600 pixel wide map supports 3-digit armies, therefor the larger vesrion certainly will also.

Acknowledgements: Many of the CC maps already made went into helping me with this map. World 2.0 (my favourite *love to 2.0*) was particularly helpful. Also, I was able to draw much insight and useful suggestion from some of the proponents of map-size increases. ;-)

Special Rules: Everything borders its neighbours unless there is a black border demarkation. These demarkations have been drawn from the Collins Illustrated Atlas as well as from various existing maps in CC.

Bonuses and Borders: Using Wikipedia and a book borrowed from my local library (which lists GDP figures, average earning statistics and such like for all the countries of the world), I created 2 'regions' for each continent (actually, 4 for Asia). These regions represent the areas of 'wealth' and 'prosperity' in their continents. These hold the only bonuses on the map and as such, will be the most sought after areas for players.
Each region is made up of 10 territories (there is a thin black line around the whole region) and I decided that, 6 armies for a single region and 18 for a region-pair would be appropriate to 'push' the game-play forward.


As some of you that have been following the map idea, I would like to create a map where the players begin only in those 'rich' areas, with the rest of the map being grey-neutral, size 3 armies that can be conquered but which do not provide anything other than a bridge to another part of the world and also a territory bonus (which on a 300+ map, could prove significant).


If people would like me too though, I might create 2 versions of this map. One with the 'sea of grey' on and the other being a normal map.

There are benefits to both possibilities:
1) Using a sea of grey will reduce the starting deployment, for a 6-player game, to 3 armies, as per usual. Players will fight normally in their regions and, with 14 regions, each the same size, each player should have similar chances to obtain and hold a region. After that, players will have to wade through the grey territories to reach and attack their neighbours. The neurtal territories will act as a wall or buffer zone, protecting the different regions and helping to isolate them during the crucial build-up stage of any RISK game. Some players may choose to simply carve out mini kingdoms and soak up that often over-looked territory bonus, which, if you conquered every territory, would produce a deployment of 107 armies (not including the bonuses).
... personally, the above game play possibilities turn me on.

2) If every territory is 'playable' from turn one, in a 6-player game, each player will have 17 armies to deploy on turn one. This will create a bloodbath right from the start and continuing until the game ends, where even escalating cards will be unlikely to out-do the large territory bonus possibilities.


The first game possibility would create a more 'epic' game, I think, while the second might be much more fast, furious and bloody. As mentioned then, if there is interest in the map, I would like to turn it into two, differently playable versions, using the XML.


>>> May I have your opinions, please?





Note, Two threads have been merged together here so some of the original posts refer to different map. I'm afraid confusion is unavoidable. I had wanted to delete the original thread and so save having that confusion but it wouldn't let me :-/
Last edited by BelJoDoe on Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:15 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Postby Kaplowitz on Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:04 pm

i kidoa like the idea, but there are too many world maps, maybe try Pixel Europe or something.
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Postby gimil on Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:04 pm

Im sorry bu theres no way youll get thsi to work. I for one would be 1st to play a 500+ terr map. but you wont fit terr names into them all.

sorry mate no chance. but by all means prove me wrong :wink:
What do you know about map making, bitch?

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Postby Kaplowitz on Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:06 pm

gimil wrote:Im sorry bu theres no way youll get thsi to work. I for one would be 1st to play a 500+ terr map. but you wont fit terr names into them all.

sorry mate no chance. but by all means prove me wrong :wink:


he can use numbers for names
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Postby gimil on Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:08 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:
gimil wrote:Im sorry bu theres no way youll get thsi to work. I for one would be 1st to play a 500+ terr map. but you wont fit terr names into them all.

sorry mate no chance. but by all means prove me wrong :wink:


he can use numbers for names


on his current version he hasen't even left room for no's. plus i don't thing ANYONE will stand for numbers on a map lie this. Numbers only work for abstract maps and imagery ones like siege or feudral war
What do you know about map making, bitch?

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Postby BelJoDoe on Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:15 pm

Well, I was thinking of using a grid with numbers at the top and the side... like an excel document... then I'd just 'name' the 'continent' itself. For example, the word "France" might hang off the west coast, just beneath the pixel representing Ireland and NW France might be in grid square 23,30, while NE France may be in 24,30. In the XML (and the drop down box for when selecting which country to attack) then, the territory would have both its country's international code (France = Fr.) its full name (for example: Bretagne) and the location (23,30)... giving NW France a final name of "Fr.Bretagne(23,30)".

I think it's possible...



Added bit of information... one good thing about using a grid is that the horrendous job of writing the XML for this map might be made just that little bit easier.
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Postby Spockers on Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:05 pm

please just don't
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Postby thegeneralpublic on Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:48 pm

Biggest problem: Three digit troop counts. I like the idea, and a numbering system would have to be used. Easy numbering system: Make all of the territories in a grid (not all of the grid squares would be used) and use a Battleship like territory naming system (ie, A7).
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Postby gimil on Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:25 am

If youor using a grid system your then forcing squares to be in line which wont do much for strategy
What do you know about map making, bitch?

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Pixel World continued

Postby BelJoDoe on Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:48 pm

Image

Map Name: Pixel World

Territories: 697... I think. Please count them and tell me if I'm wrong :-/
Please note, that in order to make this map have such a large number of territories so that I might have a chance of representing almost every country/state or important world feature on the map, I had to go a little abstract, in part.

Acknowledgements: Many of the CC maps already made went into helping me with this map. World 2.0 (my favourite *love to 2.0*) was particularly helpful.

Special Rules: Everything borders its neighbours unless there is a black border demarkation. These demarkations have been drawn from the Collins Illustrated Atlas as well as from various existing maps in CC.

Bonuses and Borders: I took the borders from the atlas, from Wiki and also from existing CC maps... it was tough trying to merge the three sources together.
I've decided that to quilify as a bonus giving sub-continent, the territories comprising the sub-continent must be greater than 3. Anything less than 4 is 'grey' and doesn't yet have a bonus.
I'm thinking of simply writing a 'rule' for the map's bonuses... A 'sub-continent' with 4 territories = +2 armies, 5/6/7 = +3, 8/9 = +4, 10-12 = +5 and 13+ = 6.

Graphics: This map is still very 'raw', it'll improve if it proves popular.


Help me count this monster, please. Also, please consider the bonuses etc and add anything inspirational you might think of.
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Postby KEYOGI on Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:41 pm

Let's keep this to one thread ok. 8)
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Postby hecter on Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:47 pm

Looks like a strange game of tetris...
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Postby Spockers on Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:19 am

Your Poll leaves me no way to express how i feel
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Postby tim02 on Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:15 am

I like it and I don't and I have to say my don't out way my does do: like the Idea and way you've started, don't: absolutly hate the naming system it will be way to hard to play, there are way to many wold maps coming out and half isn't even geographicly correct
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Postby mibi on Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:56 pm

very creative. but you dont have enough room for 3 digit army numbers... which you will need considering on a 3 player game each player will start with 232 armies.

perhaps reduce the size of the grid to 26x26 so youi dont need the redundant letters.
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Postby BelJoDoe on Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:20 pm

I had thought of the problem in advance and my solution was to make the map 840 pixels wide.... but for Andy and Keyogi to accept the map being larger, the map would have to be popular first. So, with that in mind, I decided to see how popular a 700 territory map map might be, first.

I've got an image here with the problem you raised shown in detail (using the font and size that the game displays). The text fits, just... but if too many 3 character-wide armies are grouped together, it might get a little confusing, as you can see:

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Postby AfroDwarf on Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:32 pm

Spockers wrote:Your Poll leaves me no way to express how i feel


That's okay, I think everyone can guess how you feel.
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Postby Coleman on Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:00 am

The problem you face at the moment is that you lack any useful way to designate bonuses if they exist.

Also, this is a large map, on the small map the numbers won't fit.

Finally, you somewhat stole my idea. Which was to demonstrate the maximum capacity for complexity given the current map size restraints. I think you may have done it better, I'm not sure. I wish I had more free time so that I would have finished first. Had I known I was competing with you, in a sense, I may have devoted more time to it.

Still, my idea, and how I planned to present, are different enough that I could probably continue with it.
Warning: You may be reading a really old topic.
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Postby mibi on Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:15 am

Coleman wrote:
Still, my idea, and how I planned to present, are different enough that I could probably continue with it.


please do.
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Postby Spockers on Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:41 am

The thing I look forward to most in this map is having 300-odd countries to scroll though in the drop down menus.
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Postby JerenYun on Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:25 pm

I personally think it'd be an interesting map to play. I'm for this one. I hope others are as well.
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Postby BelJoDoe on Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:54 pm

Thanks for the support, JerenYun. I hope that others share your interest in the map.

Regarding the map and its possible problems, I think I have a nice solution to the problem of 3 digit numbers and that of the bonus system. Using the new 'neutral territories on start' coding, I think I could use neutrals for the vast majority of the territories, unaligned with no particular group on the outset of war (when the game begins).

In fact, I was thinking that the only territories that could be used as starting locations would be the bonus sub-continents themselves, thus leaving all players trapped at the beginning in these sub-continents, surrounded by neutrals, acting both as a wall against cross-continental conquest and as a source of territory-bonus armies (3 territories = 1 deployble army, as usual) for players that were not able to 'take' a bonus and allowing them to carve their own territory out, instead, using the normal territory-bonus rules (3=1). With around 10 of these 'islands' and the 700 total territories, I think this would create an interesting and enjoyable twist on the world maps and make for a fun game.

As to the 3 digit army problems, by doing the above, army sizes will naturally be significantly reduced to more 'normal' levels, though obviously, the potential to reach such large armies would still be there (just as it is on any map on the current map-list. As I said earlier, 3 digits actually already was possible on the 'large' version of the map but the 600px wide version would have been difficult. This way however, the problem would not be present but, should a player wish to check anyway, they always have the option of viewing the map in large to confirm, as usual.
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Postby wcaclimbing on Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:06 pm

Too confusing....

Too many squares.

And you wont be able to fit big numbers in the boxes. I think for this to be in any way possible, make the map of a different area and make the grid bigger so there is more space for numbers.
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Postby JerenYun on Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:42 pm

BelJoDoe wrote:Thanks for the support, JerenYun. I hope that others share your interest in the map.

Regarding the map and its possible problems, I think I have a nice solution to the problem of 3 digit numbers and that of the bonus system. Using the new 'neutral territories on start' coding, I think I could use neutrals for the vast majority of the territories, unaligned with no particular group on the outset of war (when the game begins).

In fact, I was thinking that the only territories that could be used as starting locations would be the bonus sub-continents themselves, thus leaving all players trapped at the beginning in these sub-continents, surrounded by neutrals, acting both as a wall against cross-continental conquest and as a source of territory-bonus armies (3 territories = 1 deployble army, as usual) for players that were not able to 'take' a bonus and allowing them to carve their own territory out, instead, using the normal territory-bonus rules (3=1). With around 10 of these 'islands' and the 700 total territories, I think this would create an interesting and enjoyable twist on the world maps and make for a fun game.

As to the 3 digit army problems, by doing the above, army sizes will naturally be significantly reduced to more 'normal' levels, though obviously, the potential to reach such large armies would still be there (just as it is on any map on the current map-list. As I said earlier, 3 digits actually already was possible on the 'large' version of the map but the 600px wide version would have been difficult. This way however, the problem would not be present but, should a player wish to check anyway, they always have the option of viewing the map in large to confirm, as usual.


If most of the map was neutral, it'd make for a slower start (having to get through neutrals to attack other players, perhaps), but I think that might help make the map more unique in it's own right.
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Postby DiM on Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:35 am

the map has potential a lot of it and i like that. BUT it has a few major flaws that make it less attractive for some people. i for one would play it as it is but you need to make it appeal to a broader range of players if you want it to be successful.

now onto the flaws and perhaps some suggestions on how to correct them.

1. terit size and triple digit armies.
if we had no size restrictions i'd say double the size of everything and you got your problem solved but unfortunately we do have those restrictions and at least for the moment we have to respect them. so with that in mind i think the first step would be to tackle the small version. that should be at a max size of 630*600 px. if you make each square 30 by 30 instead of your current 20 you would get a grid 21*20. that's around 60% of your current total of squares. of course this would mean instead of 700 countries you'll have "just" 420. still more than enough.
now in a 30*30 square you could easily fit the 3 digit armies and the problem is solved. but this leads onto problem number 2:

2. terit names. i'm not a fan of cryptic names like QZ-43. but without this system any large map is impossible in the current size limits. so if we want something big we need to sacrifice something and the territory labels seem the obvious choice.

now that we've settled a cryptic system is the one to go there's the problem of user friendly interface to use that system. having a grid with markers on the sides like you have now has it's advantages and it's disadvantages. it occupies the least amount of space leaving more room for more terits but it's rather difficult to use. in a freestyle speedgame i won't have time to put my finger on the screen and draw imaginary lines to see what markers a certain territory has and so i'd prefer to see the names in the terit squares. but this leads back to the size issue. how to fit both the name and the army in there. the solution is one more decrease in the terit count. from 420 to 300. yes this would make the map half the size of your original thought but it would improve both the playability and the visual aspect.

i'm sorry to say this but the map in the form you envisioned it is impossible. only 2 things could make it work in this current form.
1. increase of the size guidelines
2. clickable maps.
unfortunately none of the 2 seems to be on the to-do list so until they become reality (if they ever do) you'll either have to put the map on vacation or cut in half the number of terits.


one more thing. even if on the map we'll have names like Q-7, in the xml (and the drop down menu) i'd like to see Q-7 France or X-18 Western Australia. this would help a lot because it will also help locate the point on the map and realize instantly if you selected something wrong.

for example i want to attack from papua to indonezia but i look wrong on the grid and select another coord i'll instantly realize my mistake if i see France's name on the attacker instead of papua.
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