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[Abandoned] Research & Conquer

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Re: Research & Conquer [21 Aug 2011] (Version 15 in P1 & P78

Postby natty dread on Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:21 pm

Just in case this got lost in the middle of all those bitch slaps, here's again what I suggest for the pipes:

Image

To make them pop up more, and look more pipelike. Also with higher contrast they function better as dividers for the image, making the whole image clearer.


Then, the land area. DiM has a point in that you haven't really done anything to it except make it darker - way too dark in fact, to the point of hurting legibility. I'm betting blue numbers won't show too well on that either...

I however agree with you Tacktix that the land area should retain a relatively simple, clean look. That however doesn't mean it can't be improved.

What I suggest for the land area is, make it lighter again. It should be noticeably lighter than the surrounding areas, to create a contrast for the map. The mountains and water you can keep at the current brightness, though.

Then, try making the territory borders thinner. I think this would reduce clutter in the map, and make for a cleaner style.

Consider changing the territory font. The current one is pretty unclear, and at least one person has complained about not being able to read it. Maybe a pixel font? Idk. Something.

Then... instead of a dark cloud effect, you could try a gradient overlay for the land area. Fill with black, and create 2 white radial gradients, one on the north side and one on the south. Set the layer on soft light and reduce opacity to around 40%, and you have nice, smooth gradient for the land, increasing contrast, giving you some variation in brightness. If you want you can also add a cloud effect, but make it with a much finer, and set the opacity very low.

These are all simple things, but they should work pretty well for the map clarity.

The bridges could be made narrower... again, for a less cluttered look. I'd suggest reducing their width in half.

Oh, and the coloured glows under all the territory names... make them a bit lighter, and spread it around or blur it a bit - this would improve the readability of the labels a lot.


Then, on the research side... I already mentioned the pipes and gave you a visual example for them. Apart from that, I'd only suggest giving the research squares and the smaller pipes some drop shadow.

As for the clarity of attack routes... I don't know. To me they are pretty clear after reading the legend, but it might be that newer players could have problems with them... I don't know. You should at least prepare for the eventuality that you may have to make them clearer in beta.

Best of luck with this map. I'm very much looking forward to playing it.
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Re: Research & Conquer [21 Aug 2011] (Version 15 in P1 & P78

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:23 pm

I have to say thank you Natty for your comments re: the recent disagreements. Before I read your post I was going to post something similar, though probably not as well put or written.

Regarding the most recent update, here are a few thoughts:

- The plus signs, mostly in the legend and mostly on the small map, are hard to read and could be mistaken for minus signs. I would think that it would be obvious that the bonus would be a + bonus, but this should be fixed regardless

- I think that the pipes that natty did look nice and should add to the graphical appeal of the map

- While I have no idea what natty said to do to the map or how it would look, I think it would be worth a shot to try and see how it turns out. Like natty, I do agree that the Conquer map should be kept relatively simple, but could still use some improvement if possible. The recent cloud effects and modifications have definitely made improvements, but if more could be made then it could make the map look all that much nicer.

- I find the new version less legible than the previous version. I'm not sure if its the font or the change in glow around the font and lightness on the map. Perhaps take a shot at what natty suggests and see if that helps legibility. Otherwise I think that a different font may be needed.

- In response to DiM's concerns regarding the tech tree names: I really don't think that this should be an issue and I do think that they're clear enough. The one potential issue I could see, and I consider it a really small potential, would be for the names of the advanced techs on the right, since they're not directly below the letters in the other column. I personally don't think it's too much of a leap to figure out which is which for those advanced techs, but I also can acknowledge that I'm pretty close to the map. It would be nice to get some feedback from the newer people regarding this.
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Re: Research & Conquer [21 Aug 2011] (Version 15 in P1 & P78

Postby ManBungalow on Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:33 pm

Wasn't this in the Final Forge before?
If yes, why is it not any more?
Apologies if this has been answered already somewhere that I should be reading.
I think it should be in the Final Forge, if not in the Beta stage.
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Re: Research & Conquer [21 Aug 2011] (Version 15 in P1 & P78

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:05 pm

ManBungalow wrote:Wasn't this in the Final Forge before?
If yes, why is it not any more?
Apologies if this has been answered already somewhere that I should be reading.
I think it should be in the Final Forge, if not in the Beta stage.


It was, but because of a lot of graphical concerns, it was move back until all those concerns are taken care of.
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Re: Research & Conquer [21 Aug 2011] (Version 15 in P1 & P78

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:34 am

ManBungalow wrote:Wasn't this in the Final Forge before?
If yes, why is it not any more?
Apologies if this has been answered already somewhere that I should be reading.
I think it should be in the Final Forge, if not in the Beta stage.


Besides that, there's also a matter of getting an appeal in for it's XML having been refused due to size. From what I can tell it shouldn't be a problem to get it appealed at this point since the XML's been cut down in size some more and is now less than ConquerMan's original XML size. It's still a step that will slow things down. I do think/hope that the graphical concerns are mostly resolved at this point though. Hopefully we'll see this in play within the next couple of months :)
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Re: Research & Conquer [21 Aug 2011] (Version 15 in P1 & P78

Postby TaCktiX on Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:05 pm

I've started work on Version 16. I've looked at your suggestion natty and I'm doing most of them. On the territory thing though, the current territories are 2 pixels wide. I tried 1 pixel early on in the map's life, and it looked terrible (never released, gotta trust me). Instead of redoing them I had some fun with Sharpening, which has removed a lot of the blur that had crept in from first upscaling (small to large), then downscaling (large to supersize-small). It's requiring a lot of minute adjustments, which is the primary reason Version 16 isn't out tonight.

The little lightening effect you gave me the idea of has been edited a smidge. The center is slightly lighter, darkening to the edges, and I'm going to stick in 3 more centered on each mountain range, giving the effect of each homeland area being brighter than the surrounding territory. Should A: be a good cue, and B: look more pleasing. I HAVE kept the Burn effect around, but at a different blending mode (Multiply instead of Subtract). It adds just a smidge of grit to the map that I like.

I returned to the original font (which I honestly liked better), and I'll likely do the glow spread you suggested. That should help a good deal, as the font is not inherently unreadable (compared to the FIVE others I tried, it still was the best except for Copasetic's W). I would hate to have to switch to some generic sans font for the sake of readability, so we'll see how this works out.
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Re: Research & Conquer [21 Aug 2011] (Version 15 in P1 & P78

Postby TaCktiX on Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:58 am

Cancel that. I'm under a lot of stress both in work and during my free time, and due to me effectively spinning R&C's gears to no real gain for the past few weeks working on it is a chore I don't have the mental patience for right now. As of now, Oliver and I are putting this map on vacation until January. I apologize to everyone who was looking forward to it, but I just can't do it.
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Re: Research & Conquer [21 Aug 2011] (Version 15 in P1 & P78

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:26 am

[MOVED]

Per mapmakers request, this has been put on Vacation.
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Re: Research & Conquer [21 Aug 2011] (Version 15 in P1 & P78

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:46 pm

TaCktiX wrote:Cancel that. I'm under a lot of stress both in work and during my free time, and due to me effectively spinning R&C's gears to no real gain for the past few weeks working on it is a chore I don't have the mental patience for right now. As of now, Oliver and I are putting this map on vacation until January. I apologize to everyone who was looking forward to it, but I just can't do it.


Sorry to hear that the map will be delayed, but I can totally understand how it could be very stressful to deal with. I look forward to seeing the map get back on track in January.

I'm not sure if Oliver had an opportunity to write these notes down regarding the XML, but just incase he didn't I've included them again below so that they're not buried and forgotten when the map gets going again in January.

----------------------

Notes for Oliver re: the XML...

- The mines need to have all 40 included in the code, since it's possible to have 40 mines and not own 75% of the board

- Override tags should be included within the 'Mines with Mining' continents to override the 'Mines' continents so that it shows in BOB cleaner. Likewise, Deep Mining continents should include 'Mines with Mining' continents as requirements and override them as well, providing the full +4 per mine bonus instead of stacking two +2 bonuses. This would add a bit of bulk to the XML so I think it's an optional touch for the time being, but should be added after the XML update if nothing else.

- Zeppelin Strikes need to be renamed to Sabotage

- The borders on the tech territories should be removed except for the basic techs which need to attack their advanced techs. This needs to be fixed to prevent forting from occuring from the techs back to the laboratory. This is especially important for TSFs and Doomsday, as those autodeploys shouldn't be able to be used to directly research techs.
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Re: [Vacation - valid untill Feb 2012] - Research & Conquer

Postby big-bad on Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:06 pm

awesome, can't wait to play
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Re: [Vacation - valid untill Feb 2012] - Research & Conquer

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:21 am

Neither can I, it will be a really kick ass map when it gets finished up in January/February. Still patiently waiting :)
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Re: [Vacation - valid untill Feb 2012] - Research & Conquer

Postby KiIIface on Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:25 am

i would definitely like to be part of the beta testing of this map if you get there
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Re: Research & Conquer [21 Aug 2011] (Version 15 in P1 & P78

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:10 am

TaCktiX wrote:Cancel that. I'm under a lot of stress both in work and during my free time, and due to me effectively spinning R&C's gears to no real gain for the past few weeks working on it is a chore I don't have the mental patience for right now. As of now, Oliver and I are putting this map on vacation until January. I apologize to everyone who was looking forward to it, but I just can't do it.


Happy New Year to all and Happy CC 6th Birthday. Any chance that we can get some happy CC 6th birthday news from TaCKtiX in the form of confirmation that the map development will continue in January as previously estimated? :)
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Re: [Vacation - valid untill Feb 2012] - Research & Conquer

Postby TaCktiX on Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:03 pm

Map development will continue in the very near future. I had a really nasty disinterest in CC after a nasty cocktail of post-deployment stress and reestablishing a routine back in the US of A. I'm steadily getting back into it, but as you can tell by my utter non-existence on the forums for the past two months, it's taken some work. Having all the work that I had put into it essentially slammed by right of my former position didn't help matters either.
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Re: [Vacation - valid untill Feb 2012] - Research & Conquer

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:20 am

TaCktiX wrote:Map development will continue in the very near future. I had a really nasty disinterest in CC after a nasty cocktail of post-deployment stress and reestablishing a routine back in the US of A. I'm steadily getting back into it, but as you can tell by my utter non-existence on the forums for the past two months, it's taken some work. Having all the work that I had put into it essentially slammed by right of my former position didn't help matters either.


Sorry to hear that you've been having a rough time getting back into the swing of things after your most recent deployment. I hope things are starting to settle.

As for the map, I look forward to whenever it gets back on track. I recently took a look at the map from a graphical standpoint and while I remember there being some discussion regarding the terrain, I think it looks good as it is now. The cloud effect with the darkening I think has really helped give some texture to the map. I haven't gone back to see what the other graphical concerns were, but I can't imagine that there's too many other things to resolve.

Anyway, Happy New Year and see you around the forums again soon :)
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Re: [Vacation - valid untill Feb 2012] - Research & Conquer

Postby TaCktiX on Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:02 pm

I am happy to report that I have made some progress on getting Version 16 set. Only crummy bit is that what is done on the large has to get done on the small. This is what I get for not having enough graphics comments when the map was only one version.
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Re: [Vacation - valid untill Feb 2012] - Research & Conquer

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:28 pm

TaCktiX wrote:I am happy to report that I have made some progress on getting Version 16 set. Only crummy bit is that what is done on the large has to get done on the small. This is what I get for not having enough graphics comments when the map was only one version.

You could always beg for a supersize stamp and make your large one the small. Glad to see you getting back into it and this. Good luck.
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Re: [Vacation - valid untill Feb 2012] - Research & Conquer

Postby TaCktiX on Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:56 pm

The small is already supersized. It's 712x700 atm. The large isn't supersized, and doesn't need to be.
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Re: [Vacation - valid untill Feb 2012] - Research & Conquer

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:55 am

TaCktiX wrote:I am happy to report that I have made some progress on getting Version 16 set. Only crummy bit is that what is done on the large has to get done on the small. This is what I get for not having enough graphics comments when the map was only one version.


Yay! I look forward to seeing the progress start on this again :)
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Re: [Vacation - valid untill Feb 2012] - Research & Conquer

Postby TaCktiX on Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:30 pm

Let's get this train back on the tracks and chugging toward Beta, eh?

Version 16

Updates:
- Lightened the area near homelands
- Overall lightened the land area
- Added a shadow to the pipes so they look more 3-dimensional
- Adjusted coordinate and symbol locations to make numbers fit better
- Made the bridges slightly smaller

Large
Click image to enlarge.
image

Large 88's
Click image to enlarge.
image

Large 888's
Click image to enlarge.
image


Due to coming off a long break and making some major changes to the look of the map (at least major to me), I'm only releasing a large at this point. If the changes are well-received I will post up a small to the same effect.
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Re: [Vacation - valid untill Feb 2012] - Research & Conquer

Postby DiM on Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:43 pm

TaCktiX wrote:Let's get this train back on the tracks and chugging toward Beta, eh?


yeah, judging by the way it looks i'd say more towards a draft stamp not beta.

TaCktiX wrote: some major changes to the look of the map


major? really? the map looks 90% like your first draft 2.5 years ago which was ugly compared to the standards at that time. imagine how it compares to the current standards.
the map looks even worse than the earliest graphics made by tom almost 4 years ago. :lol:
the map has a great gameplay potential. don't throw it away by wrapping this in shitty graphics.

PS: "looking forward" to all the map's fanboys to jump in and tell me how wrong i am and how in fact the map looks spectacular and it's god's gift to art. :roll:
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Re: [Vacation - valid untill Feb 2012] - Research & Conquer

Postby TaCktiX on Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:24 pm

I appreciate your valuable contribution to this thread by reminding me why I quit working on it back in August. As has been covered by me and several others, we have different stylistic expectations out of this map. There is nothing wrong with either view, and since I am the one making this map I will stick with what I like more. Though one thing has changed since August. I'm no longer in Afghanistan getting shot at on a daily basis. I guess that's something positive.
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Re: [Vacation - valid untill Feb 2012] - Research & Conquer

Postby DiM on Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:33 pm

TaCktiX wrote:since I am the one making this map I will stick with what I like more.


if only this is how the foundry worked. sigh. :roll:

btw if you say the map is up to current standards and yet it's virtually unchanged from how it looked 2.5 years ago then we can draw 3 conclusions:

1. the map was a work of art 2.5 years ago. a remarkable masterpiece for that time and it is only now caught up by foundry standards.
2. the foundry standards stagnated or worse they decreased
3. the map is in fact not up to the current foundry standards when it comes to graphics.

i'm inclined more towards #3. :roll:

do yourself a favour and scratch the graphics. no matter how much you try to polish it your base still sucks.
hey and now that you're no longer in afghanistan you should have more time to actually work on the graphics. ;)
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Re: [Vacation - valid untill Feb 2012] - Research & Conquer

Postby Victor Sullivan on Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:19 am

Quite honestly, DiM, I really don't see much of a problem with the graphics :? I've always thought the graphics of this map looks nice and were very appropriate for the theme. The only thing I might suggest is to desaturate the blue of the river, as it contrasts with the rest of the map a lot, it seems to me.

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Re: [Vacation - valid untill Feb 2012] - Research & Conquer

Postby natty dread on Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:46 am

The pipes now seem to have some odd line artifacts on them...
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