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[Abandoned] Research & Conquer

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Re: [Abandoned] Research & Conquer

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:38 pm

Just remember Oliver that if you change the game-play it will have to go through game-play all over again. :(
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Re: [Abandoned] Research & Conquer

Postby RedBaron0 on Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:08 pm

isaiah40 wrote:Just remember Oliver that if you change the game-play it will have to go through game-play all over again. :(


Which is true, but hopefully it won't take forever to get it re-approved.
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Re: [Abandoned] Research & Conquer

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:11 am

isaiah40 wrote:Just remember Oliver that if you change the game-play it will have to go through game-play all over again. :(


I think the gameplay is going to need to be played around with anyway. It's been a while since I've played the map on the beta server, but I recall there being a number of gameplay issues, many of which I posted earlier on about. I think with all the initial work we've done with the balancing pre-beta system release and with the first gameplay run on the beta system, we're at a good place to start tweaking and adding/removing features without having to worry about a lengthy gameplay approval process. With this map, the only real way to know how well the gameplay will work out is to make the changes and try them out on the test server. There's just so many variables it's hard to really know how it will all work out.
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Re: Research & Conquer [24 Oct 2013] V37 pg 103

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:14 am

OliverFA wrote:
RedBaron0 wrote:Moved

At the mapmakers request this map is to be placed on abandoned status. This means this map can be picked up by anyone whom so chooses, using any such previous files or images, and alter them as if they were their own. Any updates to the Foundry between now and then may result in requiring any and all acquired stamps. Do not assume this map is nearly complete, put in the work and make it your map if you like this idea and would like to make it!!


I would like to pick up the map if possible.

Just to make things clear, this time I would do the graphics myself. Maybe I am no graphics expert, but my amateur skills should be enough.


I'm really happy to hear that you're picking this back up Oliver. I look forward to seeing the map start to have progress once again and also to providing feedback whenever I can.
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Re: [Abandoned] Research & Conquer

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:15 am

RedBaron0 wrote:
OliverFA wrote:
RedBaron0 wrote:All yours kiddo, just gotta make an update. You can go from whatever is in here, or see if isaiah40 would be willing to pass you the Photoshop files.(most likely)

I also will HIGHLY recommend transforming some of the gameplay of this map by using the new transformations XML options, as well as trying the image staging options as well! It will likely stream line the existing gameplay, as well as making the graphics that much easier to manage.


Thanks RedBaron0. Just a question, could you provide a bit more information about "image staging options"? Thanks in advance!


Its similar to the transformation tags. Instead of a border, a condition, or attack option, etc. The entire map image changes. Very useful to show passage of time/development of map conditions. Its a new option so there may yet be kinks to work out, but defenately opens many new avenues of gameplay. An example here could have the capitals become more powerful cities and be worth more auto deploy wise, as well as grow in size. Also you could keep the higher tech option on the image that occurs later since by design you wouldn't be able research such a high tech level without first researching the previous levels.


Red Baron, are all players shown the same picture for he map as gameplay progresses or do the players themselves have to meet certain criteria to see the newer images?
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Re: [Abandoned] Research & Conquer

Postby OliverFA on Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:27 am

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:Just remember Oliver that if you change the game-play it will have to go through game-play all over again. :(


I think the gameplay is going to need to be played around with anyway. It's been a while since I've played the map on the beta server, but I recall there being a number of gameplay issues, many of which I posted earlier on about. I think with all the initial work we've done with the balancing pre-beta system release and with the first gameplay run on the beta system, we're at a good place to start tweaking and adding/removing features without having to worry about a lengthy gameplay approval process. With this map, the only real way to know how well the gameplay will work out is to make the changes and try them out on the test server. There's just so many variables it's hard to really know how it will all work out.


As Tanarri says, even if the gameplay is reworked, all the past work will be useful because it provides a better experience on how to make this design in a more consistent and fast way. Maybe it is good to have the chance to start again with everything we know :-)
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Re: Research & Conquer [24 Oct 2013] V37 pg 103

Postby OliverFA on Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:30 am

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:I'm really happy to hear that you're picking this back up Oliver. I look forward to seeing the map start to have progress once again and also to providing feedback whenever I can.


And I am happy that this time you are getting the credit you deserve as a co-author :-)
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Re: [Abandoned] Research & Conquer

Postby OliverFA on Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:32 am

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:
RedBaron0 wrote:
OliverFA wrote:
RedBaron0 wrote:All yours kiddo, just gotta make an update. You can go from whatever is in here, or see if isaiah40 would be willing to pass you the Photoshop files.(most likely)

I also will HIGHLY recommend transforming some of the gameplay of this map by using the new transformations XML options, as well as trying the image staging options as well! It will likely stream line the existing gameplay, as well as making the graphics that much easier to manage.


Thanks RedBaron0. Just a question, could you provide a bit more information about "image staging options"? Thanks in advance!


Its similar to the transformation tags. Instead of a border, a condition, or attack option, etc. The entire map image changes. Very useful to show passage of time/development of map conditions. Its a new option so there may yet be kinks to work out, but defenately opens many new avenues of gameplay. An example here could have the capitals become more powerful cities and be worth more auto deploy wise, as well as grow in size. Also you could keep the higher tech option on the image that occurs later since by design you wouldn't be able research such a high tech level without first researching the previous levels.


Red Baron, are all players shown the same picture for he map as gameplay progresses or do the players themselves have to meet certain criteria to see the newer images?


I have been browsing the Foundry and the news section but did not find anything about the image change options :-( Anyone can provide a link to that please?
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Re: [Abandoned] Research & Conquer

Postby OliverFA on Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:40 am

Just some random thoughts that I got from reviewing all the XML engine possibilities. I am brainstorming them before making a more structured discussion:

- Hexes are good for the land area, because they take few space and make for good tactical possibilities.
- the multiply tag allow to have several levels for the techs. For example, the min reinforcements tech would be multiplied by the level of this tech.
- conditional borders allow to have techs such as sailing or mountaineering, needing those techs to cross those squares.
- transformation allow to have a dashboard on the map displaying exactly how many reinforcements will be granted each turn.
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Re: [Abandoned] Research & Conquer

Postby RedBaron0 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:16 pm

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:
RedBaron0 wrote:
OliverFA wrote:
RedBaron0 wrote:All yours kiddo, just gotta make an update. You can go from whatever is in here, or see if isaiah40 would be willing to pass you the Photoshop files.(most likely)

I also will HIGHLY recommend transforming some of the gameplay of this map by using the new transformations XML options, as well as trying the image staging options as well! It will likely stream line the existing gameplay, as well as making the graphics that much easier to manage.


Thanks RedBaron0. Just a question, could you provide a bit more information about "image staging options"? Thanks in advance!


Its similar to the transformation tags. Instead of a border, a condition, or attack option, etc. The entire map image changes. Very useful to show passage of time/development of map conditions. Its a new option so there may yet be kinks to work out, but defenately opens many new avenues of gameplay. An example here could have the capitals become more powerful cities and be worth more auto deploy wise, as well as grow in size. Also you could keep the higher tech option on the image that occurs later since by design you wouldn't be able research such a high tech level without first researching the previous levels.


Red Baron, are all players shown the same picture for he map as gameplay progresses or do the players themselves have to meet certain criteria to see the newer images?


The way the game engine currently works would be that everyone would see the same image. It generates as certain conditions are met. In this case its gonna be round number.

The image staging option is still very new, and hasn't been tested out yet. We are trying to get some maps together that use this and transformations options to showcase the potential of these features. I have some map ideas, so does BG. We also saw some potential from maps being made or in the bin, this was one of them.

This is the only public thread that you can currently see any information on the image staging option: viewtopic.php?f=127&t=203937
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Re: [Abandoned] Research & Conquer

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:07 am

OliverFA wrote:Just some random thoughts that I got from reviewing all the XML engine possibilities. I am brainstorming them before making a more structured discussion:

- Hexes are good for the land area, because they take few space and make for good tactical possibilities.
- the multiply tag allow to have several levels for the techs. For example, the min reinforcements tech would be multiplied by the level of this tech.
- conditional borders allow to have techs such as sailing or mountaineering, needing those techs to cross those squares.
- transformation allow to have a dashboard on the map displaying exactly how many reinforcements will be granted each turn.


If you felt like reworking the gameplay a fair bit, then several levels for the techs could work, though we'd likely need to supersize the map to some degree or another to accomplish it.

I think the hex units are the best way to work the map, particularly the ones that Isaiah had before which were less tall than they were wide... they really seemed to work well.

Conditional borders for sailing and mountaineering is an interesting idea. These techs would break apart the strategic choke points that are created around the map, but may well make for a good tech to research for the advantage they'd give. I think it's worth further discussion.

Not sure how transformations would help make the dashboard you mentioned or even what the point of the dashboard would be, since that information should be included in BOB or the site stats already, unless I'm mistaken?
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Re: [Abandoned] Research & Conquer

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:09 am

RedBaron0 wrote:
-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:
RedBaron0 wrote:
OliverFA wrote:
RedBaron0 wrote:All yours kiddo, just gotta make an update. You can go from whatever is in here, or see if isaiah40 would be willing to pass you the Photoshop files.(most likely)

I also will HIGHLY recommend transforming some of the gameplay of this map by using the new transformations XML options, as well as trying the image staging options as well! It will likely stream line the existing gameplay, as well as making the graphics that much easier to manage.


Thanks RedBaron0. Just a question, could you provide a bit more information about "image staging options"? Thanks in advance!


Its similar to the transformation tags. Instead of a border, a condition, or attack option, etc. The entire map image changes. Very useful to show passage of time/development of map conditions. Its a new option so there may yet be kinks to work out, but defenately opens many new avenues of gameplay. An example here could have the capitals become more powerful cities and be worth more auto deploy wise, as well as grow in size. Also you could keep the higher tech option on the image that occurs later since by design you wouldn't be able research such a high tech level without first researching the previous levels.


Red Baron, are all players shown the same picture for he map as gameplay progresses or do the players themselves have to meet certain criteria to see the newer images?


The way the game engine currently works would be that everyone would see the same image. It generates as certain conditions are met. In this case its gonna be round number.

The image staging option is still very new, and hasn't been tested out yet. We are trying to get some maps together that use this and transformations options to showcase the potential of these features. I have some map ideas, so does BG. We also saw some potential from maps being made or in the bin, this was one of them.

This is the only public thread that you can currently see any information on the image staging option: viewtopic.php?f=127&t=203937


Without reading the mentioned thread, I have to say, the image staging option sounds like it would make for an awesome Draknor Level 2 map, where the exits all change around every 5-10 rounds.
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Re: [Abandoned] Research & Conquer

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:33 pm

Just noticed it's been a month and a half since the last message here and I'm wondering if the map's died again :(
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Re: [Abandoned] Research & Conquer

Postby Robespierre__ on Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:18 pm

I am guessing yes.
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