Conquer Club

Posted: **Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:11 pm**

pamoa wrote:I'm sorry but I'm not good about gameplay issue
and as english is not my mother tongue I'm not sure to understand your last sentence
do you see any solution about what you said

Oh. Sorry about that. Basically, making the map fair without changing the gameplay too much is not going to be easy. I don't have a solution right now.

Posted: **Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:16 pm**

to stop players from starting with bonuses, i propose that u have 5 neutral-starting key cities (perhaps show them by using a troop square instead of a troop circle); all non-highway bonuses need a player to hold any key city to activate the bonus.

this tries to represent the idea that, to gain reinforcements for ur army (or political movement, or whatever), u must persuade people that u have credibility. to gain credibility, u must hold a key city.

one possibility for key cities is bern, zürich, genève, basel and lugano. if the 5 key cities start neutral, then the number of starting regions is 42 and no start positions are needed.

ian.

Posted: **Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:25 pm**

iancanton wrote:this tries to represent the idea that, to gain reinforcements for ur army (or political movement, or whatever), u must persuade people that u have credibility. to gain credibility, u must hold a key city.

I don't think it really needs to represent anything, but this is an idea. Must it only be 5, though? I foresee 6-8 player games becoming a mad scramble for these cities followed by highly cautious stacking on the part of anyone who owns a city, and chronic frustration for anyone who doesn't own one.

Posted: **Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:49 am**

iancanton wrote:to stop players from starting with bonuses, i propose that u have 5 neutral-starting key cities (perhaps show them by using a troop square instead of a troop circle); all non-highway bonuses need a player to hold any key city to activate the bonus.
this tries to represent the idea that, to gain reinforcements for ur army (or political movement, or whatever), u must persuade people that u have credibility. to gain credibility, u must hold a key city.
one possibility for key cities is Bern, Zürich, Genève, Basel and Lugano. if the 5 key cities start neutral, then the number of starting regions is 42 and no start positions are needed.

I like simple solution
Bern, Zürich, Genève, Basel and Lugano starting neutral is fine for me

I'm not sure to understand the first part
does that mean you have to hold 11 German speaking cities and one of the 3 key German speaking cities Bern, Zürich, or Basel in order to get the +7 bonus
and the same for 4 French speaking cities and Genève for the +4 bonus

it could work although it seems hell to code
can anyone help me with this part

but it need 2 French speaking key cities there are 2 set of bonus possible
we can save the 5 neutral starting position by coding Lugano and Bellinzona as 2 starting position but not neutral
so no one get this bonus starting
we can always keep Lugano as a key city for linguistic fairness (actually I'm living in Lugano)
as you need to hold both cities to have the bonus

and lower the German speaking cities bonus ratio to +5 each 7 cities so we can have 3 set of bonus fitting the 3 key cities

I like the balance coming out of it
a very Swiss compromise
3 German speaking bonus possible around 3 key cities
2 French speaking bonus possible around 2 key cities
1 Italian speaking bonus possible around 1 key cities

Posted: **Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:59 am**

Evil DIMwit wrote:Must it only be 5, though? I foresee 6-8 player games becoming a mad scramble for these cities followed by highly cautious stacking on the part of anyone who owns a city, and chronic frustration for anyone who doesn't own one.

it doesn't have to be 5 key cities. 5 does fit the geography reasonably well and gives us 42 non-neutral regions though.

pamoa wrote:
iancanton wrote:all non-highway bonuses need a player to hold any key city to activate the bonus.

does that mean you have to hold 11 German speaking cities and one of the 3 key German speaking cities Bern, Zürich, or Basel in order to get the +7 bonus
and the same for 4 French speaking cities and Genève for the +4 bonus

no, my intention was that u must hold any key city to activate the language, resort, foreign and founding member bonuses. the italian bonus is the only one where u must hold a particular key city, lugano (because all italian-speaking cities are needed for that bonus).

pamoa wrote:it could work although it seems hell to code
can anyone help me with this part

it's the german bonus that will be hell to code! i think all u need to do with the key cities is to add each key city to each bonus combination as a required item. when i have time, i'll try to find an example from another map to show u, unless someone else finds one first!

pamoa wrote:but it need 2 French speaking key cities there are 2 set of bonus possible

one key city activates all bonuses, so only one is needed.

pamoa wrote:I like the balance coming out of it
a very Swiss compromise
3 German speaking bonus possible around 3 key cities
2 French speaking bonus possible around 2 key cities
1 Italian speaking bonus possible around 1 key cities

if u'd like a second francophone key city, then add another region to the map (to make 42 non-neutral regions). however, all well-known french-speaking cities on the map (lausanne, sion and neuchâtel) are too close to genève, which is already the key city in the strongest, most secure position. can u think of another candidate?

ian.

Posted: **Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:13 am**

Neuchâtel as the capital of the Swiss watch making

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:48 am**

iancanton wrote:if u'd like a second francophone key city, then add another region to the map (to make 42 non-neutral regions). however, all well-known french-speaking cities on the map (lausanne, sion and neuchâtel) are too close to genève, which is already the key city in the strongest, most secure position.

if u make neuchâtel a key city, then it is very close to genève, so i suggest that u add yverdon-les-bains between neuchâtel and lausanne to keep some distance between them.

http://www.yverdonlesbains-tourisme.ch/e/home/

ian.

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:35 am**

I would prefer not adding a city
but what if I simply made the five cities starting neutral
without the complicated theme of the key city
would it work ?

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:31 pm**

pamoa wrote:but what if I simply made the five cities starting neutral
without the complicated theme of the key city
would it work ?

No, it wouldn't. The idea is to have some way to prevent a player from starting out with a bonus. If you don't need the key cities for a bonus, then nothing prevents the first player from having a 2- or 3- or 4-troop advantage on their first turn.

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:26 am**

and is it possible to calculate the percentage of risk

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:23 pm**

pamoa wrote:and is it possible to calculate the percentage of risk

Well, according to MrBenn's Bonus Probability Calculator, the odds in a 3-player game of somebody starting with a French bonus is 25%; a foreign city bonus is 93%; and a resort cities bonus is 100%. Furthermore, if the German bonus applies for every 7 territories, even with 3 of the German cities being neutral it's impossible to divide the 19 remaining territories so that no player starts with 7.

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:25 pm**

Evil DIMwit wrote:
pamoa wrote:and is it possible to calculate the percentage of risk

Well, according to MrBenn's Bonus Probability Calculator, the odds in a 3-player game of somebody starting with a French bonus is 25%; a foreign city bonus is 93%; and a resort cities bonus is 100%. Furthermore, if the German bonus applies for every 7 territories, even with 3 of the German cities being neutral it's impossible to divide the 19 remaining territories so that no player starts with 7.

Link fixed!

Posted: **Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:06 am**

well using the calculator the problem is not "normal" cities
but foreign cities first player 28% any player 57%
and tourist resort first player 39% any player 79%

I have an idea
maybe stupid
making foreign and tourist as starting neutral 1 or 2
without key cities feature or normal cities as neutral
and French speaking bonus probability would be first player 7% any player 14%
which could be an acceptable risk

Posted: **Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:17 pm**

pamoa wrote:
making foreign and tourist as starting neutral 1 or 2
without key cities feature or normal cities as neutral
and French speaking bonus probability would be first player 7% any player 14%
which could be an acceptable risk

I think you goofed on your calculations and left it as having 6 French cities distributed a the start. With 8 French cities being divided, the probability is 64% for 3-player games.

Posted: **Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:53 pm**

without making one key city a necessary part of each bonus, the french, tourist and foreign bonuses become very similar to the original aeroplane bonuses in pearl harbor (+2 for any 3 planes, if i recall correctly, before the very recent bonus revamp), which makes many 2-player games a nightmare for the person who goes second.

pamoa wrote:it could work although it seems hell to code
can anyone help me with this part

by the way, the key cities are not difficult to code. the spider-plus-3-regions bonus in halloween hollows uses a similar concept, so it's possible to adapt the xml from that bonus to the situation here.

pamoa wrote:making foreign and tourist as starting neutral 1 or 2

this is possible, though the foreign cities in particular might be ignored in a lot of games.

ian.

Posted: **Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:17 am**

this is going very messy in my mind
I have no clue yet where to go

Posted: **Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:02 pm**

[Moved]

It would appear that development of this map has stalled. If the mapmaker wants to continue with the map, then one of the Foundry Moderators will be able to help put the thread back into the Foundry system, after an update has been made. ;-)

Posted: **Sun May 16, 2010 10:35 am**

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Posted: **Sun May 16, 2010 10:35 am**

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Posted: **Sun May 16, 2010 10:37 am**

.....

Posted: **Mon May 17, 2010 1:24 am**

this map is dead
no gameplay solution
and by the way Davos is set a tourist resort

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:15 pm**

I thought of http://sillysoft.net/plugins/images/Switzerland.jpg

Conquer Club

[Abandoned] - Switzerland

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