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Re: Salem's Switch [Quenched]

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:03 pm
by Nola_Lifer
Another solution to fix the problem is don't play nukes on this map. Not all special game plays are ideal for every map and vice versa.

Re: Salem's Switch [Quenched]

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:09 pm
by Gilligan
Foreverman wrote:Sure, conquering a buggy stop should result in a spoils card. But is there a way to make sure none of the cards represent a buggy stop, that they only contain non-buggy-stop cards?


No, not possible.

Re: Salem's Switch [Quenched]

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:19 pm
by cairnswk
Foreverman wrote:Sure, conquering a buggy stop should result in a spoils card. But is there a way to make sure none of the cards represent a buggy stop, that they only contain non-buggy-stop cards?

Not in the current xml engine, as i beleive it.

Re: Salem's Switch [Quenched]

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:17 pm
by Leehar
Is it possible to make the Buggy Stops being killer neutrals (revert to 1) a bit more visible rather than in the bottom left corner?

I know it's something me and a coupla others ended up learning the hard way (our poor 4 stack :()

Re: Salem's Switch [Quenched]

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:59 pm
by cairnswk
Leehar wrote:Is it possible to make the Buggy Stops being killer neutrals (revert to 1) a bit more visible rather than in the bottom left corner?

I know it's something me and a coupla others ended up learning the hard way (our poor 4 stack :()


Leehar, i think it's as visible as it's possibly going to get....at 100% opacity.
It does say killer neutral in that corner.
and killer neutrals always revert to neutral no matter how many u have so you would have lost any stack.
I think you simply slipped up, and possibly forgot it, or didn't bother to read that corner.
i can't make it more plain-as-daylight than it already is unless i put it on a big neon sign with flashing lights.

Re: Salem's Switch [Quenched]

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:55 pm
by Gilligan
cairnswk wrote:i can't make it more plain-as-daylight than it already is unless i put it on a big neon sign with flashing lights.


Can we see how that looks?! :geek:

Re: Salem's Switch [Quenched]

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:48 pm
by cairnswk
Gilligan wrote:
cairnswk wrote:i can't make it more plain-as-daylight than it already is unless i put it on a big neon sign with flashing lights.


Can we see how that looks?! :geek:

:lol: :lol:

Re: Salem's Switch [Quenched]

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:45 am
by Leehar
I was thinking you could do something similar to what you have in Das Schloss where it's bolded and highlighted in red

Its my first time playing the map so I admit it's probably all of the above slip-ups you mentioned, but the reality is I'm probably not the only one to have fallen into that mistake.
If it could be made more clearer all to the good, if not, I guess people can continue learning it the hard way

Re: Salem's Switch [Quenched]

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:20 pm
by cairnswk
Leehar wrote:I was thinking you could do something similar to what you have in Das Schloss where it's bolded and highlighted in red

Its my first time playing the map so I admit it's probably all of the above slip-ups you mentioned, but the reality is I'm probably not the only one to have fallen into that mistake.
If it could be made more clearer all to the good, if not, I guess people can continue learning it the hard way


Leehar, i don't consider reading the instructions on the map (which are very clear and have their own specific corner) to be a case of "learning the hard way", since from my experience over these last nearly 6 years (since CCC) most player simply don't bother to read the instructions on the map which we in the foundry go to great length to place there for everyone's benefit, and they certainly don't bother to visist maps while they are in production to highlight some of these so-called anomolies. :)
And if others have had a similar problem they haven't mentioned them since April when this went to BETA nor before it became quenched and there are now 1776 games on it.
IN fact we specifically changed that section to read:

Roads are impassable
except at Buggy Stop Junctions which (if held) revert to 1 neutral at the start of your turn.


I really don't think it needs changing at all, except for the players to read the instructions before they play a map. Quite simple really. :)

Re: Salem's Switch V34 [Quenched]

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:03 pm
by Leehar
There are landowners, accused, accusers, roads, buggy stops, reverends, judges, and meeting houses; it seems feasible while figuring out all those that you'd miss out the revert to neutral as well. And this info is at all corners of the map...
I got the part about buggy-stops being the route throw the roads, but unfortunately didn't read-through it all the way through as I was quickly scanning the map, and so missed the part about reverting to neutral
(which is why I thought making it a bit bold/in contrasting color, could highlight it a bit more clearly)


I was a bit bored, so I took on your challenge of nobody mentioning the issue in the last 6 months and took a brief scan through the chat of the last half-page of games:

2013-01-19 19:59:15 - dollarsnosense: just left 11 on a reset to neutral
https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12240643

2013-01-16 14:01:27 - mint-murray: watch buggy stops they revert to nuetral
https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12225386

lost 4 to the neutral
https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12218408

2013-01-16 23:59:07 - Mad Martigan: What is this neutral player that just wiped out four of my troops?!
2013-01-17 03:40:22 - Asher413: Neutral got me too... and the dice dragged me back in.
https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12217041

2013-01-20 18:26:07 - mudfighter [team]: damn, did not see that...
2013-01-20 18:26:15 - mudfighter [team]: about the reset
2013-01-20 18:26:24 - mudfighter [team]: ok, that is the way to learn a map...
2013-01-20 19:12:19 - Leehar [team]: same :(
https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12218405


Again, I completely understand that this is already out of beta, so it's not worth the effort to change it if it's only causing a problem for a slight few, but I just thought it was worth mentioning because even through that scan above, there were quite a few other comments that the map was too complicated so maybe this could have been something to make it a bit easier to avoid falling into a pitfall.

Re: Salem's Switch V34 [Quenched]

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:22 am
by cairnswk
Leehar wrote:There are landowners, accused, accusers, roads, buggy stops, reverends, judges, and meeting houses; it seems feasible while figuring out all those that you'd miss out the revert to neutral as well. And this info is at all corners of the map...
I got the part about buggy-stops being the route throw the roads, but unfortunately didn't read-through it all the way through as I was quickly scanning the map, and so missed the part about reverting to neutral
(which is why I thought making it a bit bold/in contrasting color, could highlight it a bit more clearly)

i too can understand u wanting it bold...but really i beleive the problem is that ( and i am guilty of doing this on many ocassions) we don't read things properly and take it in and let it sink in

I was a bit bored, so I took on your challenge of nobody mentioning the issue in the last 6 months and took a brief scan through the chat of the last half-page of games:

2013-01-19 19:59:15 - dollarsnosense: just left 11 on a reset to neutral
https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12240643

2013-01-16 14:01:27 - mint-murray: watch buggy stops they revert to nuetral
https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12225386

lost 4 to the neutral
https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12218408

2013-01-16 23:59:07 - Mad Martigan: What is this neutral player that just wiped out four of my troops?!
2013-01-17 03:40:22 - Asher413: Neutral got me too... and the dice dragged me back in.
https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12217041

2013-01-20 18:26:07 - mudfighter [team]: damn, did not see that...
2013-01-20 18:26:15 - mudfighter [team]: about the reset
2013-01-20 18:26:24 - mudfighter [team]: ok, that is the way to learn a map...
2013-01-20 19:12:19 - Leehar [team]: same :(
https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12218405

Appreciate your efforts, but you don't have to convince me that players don't read instructions. sorry.


Again, I completely understand that this is already out of beta, so it's not worth the effort to change it if it's only causing a problem for a slight few, but I just thought it was worth mentioning because even through that scan above, there were quite a few other comments that the map was too complicated so maybe this could have been something to make it a bit easier to avoid falling into a pitfall.

the map is none too complicated...many players these days someply want quick quick quick so they don't have to think or read too much...while others want something where they can strategise, which is where this map is aimed at.
I may consider it at some time in the future if i get a flourish of players in here complaining about similar. :)

Re: Salem's Switch V34 [Quenched]

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:09 pm
by ender516
I think this sort of discussion will subside somewhat when (please, not "if") the site gets the map database out in the open, where users can read about maps and find out how difficult they are, and where the pitfalls are, including features like killer neutrals.

Re: Salem's Switch V34 [Quenched]

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:20 pm
by cairnswk
ender516 wrote:I think this sort of discussion will subside somewhat when (please, not "if") the site gets the map database out in the open, where users can read about maps and find out how difficult they are, and where the pitfalls are, including features like killer neutrals.

totally agree ender516 :)

Re: Salem's Switch V34 [Quenched]

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:39 pm
by ManBungalow
One really petty issue here from me today:

Map says "Johnathon Putnam"
XML says "Johnathan Putnam"

Re: Salem's Switch V34 [Quenched]

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:50 pm
by Gilligan
ManBungalow wrote:One really petty issue here from me today:

Map says "Johnathon Putnam"
XML says "Johnathan Putnam"


Never noticed that. I guess when I read "Johnathan" I read it as how I normally see it spelled! Google keeps telling me John, so I can't tell if it's supposed to be an O or an A...

Re: Salem's Switch V34 [Quenched]

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:22 pm
by cairnswk
Gilligan wrote:
ManBungalow wrote:One really petty issue here from me today:

Map says "Johnathon Putnam"
XML says "Johnathan Putnam"


Never noticed that. I guess when I read "Johnathan" I read it as how I normally see it spelled! Google keeps telling me John, so I can't tell if it's supposed to be an O or an A...


Thanks for that pickup MB.
I've just examined the original map i took the references from and the correct spelling (my error) is

JONATHAN PUTNAM

I will amend the map, if Gilligan can amend the xml :)

Re: Salem's Switch V36 [Quenched]

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:48 pm
by cairnswk
Version 36 Small and Large with update as above.

Image


Click image to enlarge.
image

Re: Salem's Switch V36 [Quenched]

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:51 pm
by Gilligan
The XML already says Johnathan. Also I really like that font!

Re: Salem's Switch V36 [Quenched]

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:55 pm
by cairnswk
Gilligan wrote:The XML already says Johnathan. Also I really like that font!

Ah. new version has new and correct spelling ;)

Re: Salem's Switch V36 [Quenched]

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:03 am
by nolefan5311
Is "Dorca Hoar" supposed to be "Dorcas Hoar"?

The changes really do look sharp.

Re: Salem's Switch V36 [Quenched]

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:11 am
by Gilligan
nolefan5311 wrote:Is "Dorca Hoar" supposed to be "Dorcas Hoar"?

The changes really do look sharp.


It looks like a bit of the S is hiding behind the border!

Re: Salem's Switch V36 [Quenched]

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:17 am
by chapcrap
Yeah, I don't think we should change the font because of a typo. The map went through the process and the font was already chosen.

Re: Salem's Switch V36 [Quenched]

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:15 am
by cairnswk
nolefan5311 wrote:Is "Dorca Hoar" supposed to be "Dorcas Hoar"?

The changes really do look sharp.


Gilligan wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:Is "Dorca Hoar" supposed to be "Dorcas Hoar"?

The changes really do look sharp.


It looks like a bit of the S is hiding behind the border!


chapcrap wrote:Yeah, I don't think we should change the font because of a typo. The map went through the process and the font was already chosen.


Guys, my error, because the soiftware asked me for font substitution i changed the font unknowlingly and didn't check what it was from previous versions.
Now remedied in above version 36. :)

Re: Salem's Switch V36 [Quenched]

PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:32 am
by Gilligan
Aw, I thought you did it cause it was better :(

Re: Salem's Switch V36 [Quenched]

PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:46 am
by cairnswk
Gilligan wrote:Aw, I thought you did it cause it was better :(

do you have adjusted xml Gilligan
Johnathan > Jonathan