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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby Blitzaholic on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:46 pm

SirSebstar wrote:i just cant imagine a clanmap without the Veroveraars der Lage Landen.. oh the horror!



I think VDLL was mentioned earlier in the thread, this is not finalized yet.
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby Blitzaholic on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:49 pm

jefjef wrote:If using 18 is a lot too crowded for bonus regions for each you could have castles like feudal with a non clan bonus regions to fight over. Instead of castles though you could use Shacks. The backwoods Tennessee/Arkansas type. Auto deploys on shacks type of game.



And all just start with one land kind of like feudal?
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby Blitzaholic on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:52 pm

note: if we went to only 8 clans, I would probably have to lean towards these 8


thota-the horsemen of the apocalypse--want on the map-1
tsm-the spanking monkis-want on the map-2
IA-immortal assassins-want on the map-3
Kort-knights of the round table-want on the map-4
empire-want on the map-5
AOD-angels of death-want on the map-6
LOW-legends of war-want on the map-7
Tofu-the odd fellows union-want on the map-8



this would leave a lot off, this is why I was saying if most votes are on polar extremes 8 and 18, we may need to meet in the middle for 12 clans.



if we had 12, I may lean this way.


thota-the horsemen of the apocalypse--want on the map-1
tsm-the spanking monkis-want on the map-2
IA-immortal assassins-want on the map-3
Kort-knights of the round table-want on the map-4
empire-want on the map-5
AOD-angels of death-want on the map-6
LOW-legends of war-want on the map-7
Tofu-the odd fellows union-want on the map-8
Nem-nemesis-want on the map-9
L4D-left 4 dead-want on the map-10
ID-imperial dragoons-want on the map-11
O+H-outlaws and highway men-want on the map-12



and if we did 12, these clans would probably get snubbed, either 8 or 12, some are still going to get hurt and feel left out.
Someone has to make the hard decisions.

may miss the cut

Bss-black sheep squadron
BpB
Gen 1
EE-eternal empire
VDLL
Brethren
Legion
Last edited by Blitzaholic on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby happy2seeyou on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:55 pm

Blitzaholic wrote:note: if we went to only 8 clans, I would probably have to lean towards these 8


thota-the horsemen of the apocalypse--want on the map-1
tsm-the spanking monkis-want on the map-2
IA-immortal assassins-want on the map-3
Kort-knights of the round table-want on the map-4
empire-want on the map-5
AOD-angels of death-want on the map-6
LOW-legends of war-want on the map-7
Tofu-the odd fellows union-want on the map-8



this would leave a lot off, this is why I was saying if most votes are on polar extremes 8 and 18, we may need to meet in the middle for 12 clans.


Some of those clans I have never even heard of!?!?


There should be a tournament to see who goes on it.

-Milk Juggs
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby SuicidalSnowman on Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:57 pm

Well I voted 18 because the more the merrier, but otherwise what I think is more important anyways is the gameplay. Sure, if EE is on there it will be cool to see, but I am not going to want to play this map just so I can lose a game in a sad attempt to take the EE territories. And even if you only do 8, and somehow EE isn't on there :shock: , I am not going to obsess over if I am taking THOTA or whatever other clan is there. I am going to worry about where my troops are, where the other guys are, and how to take them over and win the map.

I guess I am saying as long as the graphics are cool, and well within the community standards and the foundry standards, the actual clan names are kind of irrelevant.

I am no map-making expert, but if I would like to see the focus on getting the graphics looking nicer in terms of colors, fonts, and legend, and getting the gameplay ironed out a bit.

Which leads directly to my next comment:
For those comparing this to 8 Thoughts and Castle Lands, I think there are already a few differences. 8 Thoughts has a sort of unique bonus strategy where the alternating signs make up bonuses, as do each individual sign. Additionally, the movement in 8 Thoughts is fairly restricted. Finally, 8 Thoughts makes the inner territory a drag to hold.

This draft, so far, opens up movement a lot with the portals. I hugely support that. This map also removes the alternative area bonus structure, and instead focuses on building a base of power in each area. Also, this makes the center a huge bonus with the nice auto-deploy.

I do think it is similar to castle lands, but I think castle lands is a really fun and interesting map. The small differences (the bombard, and two level ring structure of castle lands) will make this map, in my opinion, a fine addition.



And finally, the foundry has mentioned forging links between foundry and tournaments, a play in for being included in this map would be a fantastic idea for a community event.


And seriously, what won't Blitz do for medals? The problem is, you can't hate on it because when he spams tournaments, you then join one and it is run really well and fun. He goes to make a map, and what do you know, its a decent idea and he puts in the time and effort. So shit, I am all for giving him his 900th medal if it gets me a worthwhile map to play on.
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby Blitzaholic on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:01 pm

SuicidalSnowman wrote:Well I voted 18 because the more the merrier, but otherwise what I think is more important anyways is the gameplay. Sure, if EE is on there it will be cool to see, but I am not going to want to play this map just so I can lose a game in a sad attempt to take the EE territories. And even if you only do 8, and somehow EE isn't on there :shock: , I am not going to obsess over if I am taking THOTA or whatever other clan is there. I am going to worry about where my troops are, where the other guys are, and how to take them over and win the map.

I guess I am saying as long as the graphics are cool, and well within the community standards and the foundry standards, the actual clan names are kind of irrelevant.

I am no map-making expert, but if I would like to see the focus on getting the graphics looking nicer in terms of colors, fonts, and legend, and getting the gameplay ironed out a bit.

Which leads directly to my next comment:
For those comparing this to 8 Thoughts and Castle Lands, I think there are already a few differences. 8 Thoughts has a sort of unique bonus strategy where the alternating signs make up bonuses, as do each individual sign. Additionally, the movement in 8 Thoughts is fairly restricted. Finally, 8 Thoughts makes the inner territory a drag to hold.

This draft, so far, opens up movement a lot with the portals. I hugely support that. This map also removes the alternative area bonus structure, and instead focuses on building a base of power in each area. Also, this makes the center a huge bonus with the nice auto-deploy.

I do think it is similar to castle lands, but I think castle lands is a really fun and interesting map. The small differences (the bombard, and two level ring structure of castle lands) will make this map, in my opinion, a fine addition.



And finally, the foundry has mentioned forging links between foundry and tournaments, a play in for being included in this map would be a fantastic idea for a community event.


And seriously, what won't Blitz do for medals? The problem is, you can't hate on it because when he spams tournaments, you then join one and it is run really well and fun. He goes to make a map, and what do you know, its a decent idea and he puts in the time and effort. So shit, I am all for giving him his 900th medal if it gets me a worthwhile map to play on.




Thanks a lot SuicidalSnowman, I really like the portals idea as well.
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby happy2seeyou on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:01 pm

SuicidalSnowman wrote:I am no map-making expert, but if I would like to see the focus on getting the graphics looking nicer in terms of colors, fonts, and legend, and getting the gameplay ironed out a bit.

Which leads directly to my next comment:
For those comparing this to 8 Thoughts and Castle Lands, I think there are already a few differences. 8 Thoughts has a sort of unique bonus strategy where the alternating signs make up bonuses, as do each individual sign. Additionally, the movement in 8 Thoughts is fairly restricted. Finally, 8 Thoughts makes the inner territory a drag to hold.



I agree on the graphics needing work.

I wasn't saying the game play is the same, I'm saying the layout and look of them are very similar, esp castle and clans

-Milk Juggs
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby jiminski on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:03 pm

happy2seeyou wrote:
Blitzaholic wrote:note: if we went to only 8 clans, I would probably have to lean towards these 8


thota-the horsemen of the apocalypse--want on the map-1
tsm-the spanking monkis-want on the map-2
IA-immortal assassins-want on the map-3
Kort-knights of the round table-want on the map-4
empire-want on the map-5
AOD-angels of death-want on the map-6
LOW-legends of war-want on the map-7
Tofu-the odd fellows union-want on the map-8



this would leave a lot off, this is why I was saying if most votes are on polar extremes 8 and 18, we may need to meet in the middle for 12 clans.


Some of those clans I have never even heard of!?!?


There should be a tournament to see who goes on it.

-Milk Juggs


i do like that idea .. it would be fun and would create a lot of interest!

The only downside is that there are already a hell of a lot of games, already too many for some of those in the clan league (i am not one as i'm not really playing but i know it is like a full time frigging job ;) ).. Also one could say that the point of the clan league is already to work out the most consistent clans in any given year.
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby Blitzaholic on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:05 pm

happy2seeyou wrote:
Blitzaholic wrote:note: if we went to only 8 clans, I would probably have to lean towards these 8


thota-the horsemen of the apocalypse--want on the map-1
tsm-the spanking monkis-want on the map-2
IA-immortal assassins-want on the map-3
Kort-knights of the round table-want on the map-4
empire-want on the map-5
AOD-angels of death-want on the map-6
LOW-legends of war-want on the map-7
Tofu-the odd fellows union-want on the map-8



this would leave a lot off, this is why I was saying if most votes are on polar extremes 8 and 18, we may need to meet in the middle for 12 clans.


Some of those clans I have never even heard of!?!?


There should be a tournament to see who goes on it.

-Milk Juggs



a lot has happened, pregnancy is 9 months.



as marval mentioned earlier, over time, we may be able to change clans who leave or go down and others rise. I would like to poll to go on another couple days and also get JPcloet's input on my assessment of the top 8 clans ans 12 clans and see if any differ from his lens.
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby firth4eva on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:09 pm

Please, do not quench this map. Ever.
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby happy2seeyou on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:12 pm

jiminski wrote:
happy2seeyou wrote:
Blitzaholic wrote:note: if we went to only 8 clans, I would probably have to lean towards these 8


thota-the horsemen of the apocalypse--want on the map-1
tsm-the spanking monkis-want on the map-2
IA-immortal assassins-want on the map-3
Kort-knights of the round table-want on the map-4
empire-want on the map-5
AOD-angels of death-want on the map-6
LOW-legends of war-want on the map-7
Tofu-the odd fellows union-want on the map-8



this would leave a lot off, this is why I was saying if most votes are on polar extremes 8 and 18, we may need to meet in the middle for 12 clans.


Some of those clans I have never even heard of!?!?


There should be a tournament to see who goes on it.

-Milk Juggs


i do like that idea .. it would be fun and would create a lot of interest!

The only downside is that there are already a hell of a lot of games, already too many for some of those in the clan league (i am not one as i'm not really playing but i know it is like a full time frigging job ;) ).. Also one could say that the point of the clan league is already to work out the most consistent clans in any given year.


If a clan tourney thing was set up, couldn't clan wars take a temporary brake to play in a special one?
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby Tisha on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:13 pm

I'd prefer something like feudal, over the current layout
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby Blitzaholic on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:13 pm

happy2seeyou wrote:
SuicidalSnowman wrote:I am no map-making expert, but if I would like to see the focus on getting the graphics looking nicer in terms of colors, fonts, and legend, and getting the gameplay ironed out a bit.

Which leads directly to my next comment:
For those comparing this to 8 Thoughts and Castle Lands, I think there are already a few differences. 8 Thoughts has a sort of unique bonus strategy where the alternating signs make up bonuses, as do each individual sign. Additionally, the movement in 8 Thoughts is fairly restricted. Finally, 8 Thoughts makes the inner territory a drag to hold.



I agree on the graphics needing work.

I wasn't saying the game play is the same, I'm saying the layout and look of them are very similar, esp castle and clans

-Milk Juggs



nice observation
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby Blitzaholic on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:14 pm

happy2seeyou wrote:
jiminski wrote:
happy2seeyou wrote:
Blitzaholic wrote:note: if we went to only 8 clans, I would probably have to lean towards these 8


thota-the horsemen of the apocalypse--want on the map-1
tsm-the spanking monkis-want on the map-2
IA-immortal assassins-want on the map-3
Kort-knights of the round table-want on the map-4
empire-want on the map-5
AOD-angels of death-want on the map-6
LOW-legends of war-want on the map-7
Tofu-the odd fellows union-want on the map-8



this would leave a lot off, this is why I was saying if most votes are on polar extremes 8 and 18, we may need to meet in the middle for 12 clans.


Some of those clans I have never even heard of!?!?


There should be a tournament to see who goes on it.

-Milk Juggs


i do like that idea .. it would be fun and would create a lot of interest!

The only downside is that there are already a hell of a lot of games, already too many for some of those in the clan league (i am not one as i'm not really playing but i know it is like a full time frigging job ;) ).. Also one could say that the point of the clan league is already to work out the most consistent clans in any given year.


If a clan tourney thing was set up, couldn't clan wars take a temporary brake to play in a special one?




perhaps
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby Blitzaholic on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:15 pm

happy2seeyou wrote:
SuicidalSnowman wrote:I am no map-making expert, but if I would like to see the focus on getting the graphics looking nicer in terms of colors, fonts, and legend, and getting the gameplay ironed out a bit.

Which leads directly to my next comment:
For those comparing this to 8 Thoughts and Castle Lands, I think there are already a few differences. 8 Thoughts has a sort of unique bonus strategy where the alternating signs make up bonuses, as do each individual sign. Additionally, the movement in 8 Thoughts is fairly restricted. Finally, 8 Thoughts makes the inner territory a drag to hold.



I agree on the graphics needing work.



-Milk Juggs



agreed, the graphics and xml will come later, 1st things 1st for all you 12 step guru's or 13th steppers :-$
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby MarVal on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:48 pm

Blitzaholic wrote:thx a lot marval, I think if it gets approved and we move to this, I would need you or jpcloet to assist in this.

You can always count on me, Blitz!
(and I can say this also for JP, I guess) ;)

SirSebstar wrote:i just cant imagine a clanmap without the Veroveraars der Lage Landen.. oh the horror!

Me neither.... this clan is the first international language clan on CC :twisted:

Blitzaholic wrote:may miss the cut

Bss-black sheep squadron
BpB
Gen 1
EE-eternal empire
VDLL
Brethren
Legion

That will be the worst case scenario without them :shock:

Grtz
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby the.killing.44 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:49 pm

Definitely 8…the map will be too crowded with more.
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby happy2seeyou on Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:56 pm

I didn't vote yet.... 8-)
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby Blitzaholic on Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:29 pm

MarVal wrote:
Blitzaholic wrote:thx a lot marval, I think if it gets approved and we move to this, I would need you or jpcloet to assist in this.

You can always count on me, Blitz!
(and I can say this also for JP, I guess) ;)

SirSebstar wrote:i just cant imagine a clanmap without the Veroveraars der Lage Landen.. oh the horror!

Me neither.... this clan is the first international language clan on CC :twisted:

Blitzaholic wrote:may miss the cut

Bss-black sheep squadron
BpB
Gen 1
EE-eternal empire
VDLL
Brethren




thx a lot Marval, we will just have to see what the vote of poll says.
Legion

That will be the worst case scenario without them :shock:

Grtz
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby Blitzaholic on Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:30 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:Definitely 8…the map will be too crowded with more.





thx for the vote



happy2seeyou wrote:I didn't vote yet.... 8-)






why not? :lol:
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby mkcummins on Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:36 pm

Big Yuma Ripper wrote:
Lubawski wrote:I don't mean to be a dick about this, but this is supposed to be a tribute to clans. While there are plenty of good up and coming new clans, they come and go quickly. I think putting groups that are not proven on this list is a mistake. Let's stick with those who have been around for a while and have proven themselves. Others will rise, and a later version (clan homage, but different style) can be made with clans that are not on this original. Putting too many clans on the map will destroy it's playability in my opinion. There is a max of 8 players in a game, and while having perhaps 10 starting spots could make a foggy game a lot of fun, having 16 makes the map a joke.


I tend to agree with this....only the proven clans should be here. But one thing to consider is that if a clan does die out I don't think i would be to hard for the map maker to change a name on the map to a new and up coming clan.?

One thing before i vote is Blitz what about a list stating how many territories it would give each clan with 10 clans, 12,13,14 and so on? That would be helpful to know?

Hmm that gives me another idea, WHAT about this "IF" the names could be changed at any time why no make it a challenge to earn your spot there! Just for example say you make it 10 clans for the map...Go to the clan ladder standings, If your on the top 10 list then you earned your spot? Fall from 10 to 11 and you get bumped off! Earn it guys no freebies =D> Put it in the heading "Earn your spot on CC's top clan map" Fight your way on! It might make some of the smaller/newer clans actually fight there way better? Maybe not update it every week but set a time, maybe every qtr. or something like that? Just an idea guys see what you think about it. Of course the load will be on whom ever changes the names? Think you guys can handle that ;)
BYR


i agree with Lubawski completely and think Big Yuma's idea is an excellent one. earn your way on to the map. fall from 10 to 11 and get bumped...
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby peanutsdad on Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:00 pm

On behalf of mythology, we vote that it should be 8 teams, although 10 would work as well. As for the ongoing discussion on having it be established clans i completely agree with that. While there are some very good clans that have come up on CC over the last year or so, this map should be listing the clans that have been here the longest, and aren't going anywhere, not just about how strong of a clan they are.
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby poptartpsycho18 on Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:57 pm

Go for it Blitz, I'd say we[L4D] are in.
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby chipv on Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:53 pm

I got your PM about this Blitz, so here are a few thoughts about your first map/next medal.

Trying to decide on a fixed set of clans for this map is a bad idea. 6 out of the 7 pages (I've just trawled through them)
here have been nothing but discussion on the number of clans, with a handful of good posts on gameplay.
Currently the poll has 8 clans at 46% which is hardly a consensus and no surprise as this is
a divisive premise. You would also be consigning your map to a short term experiment. With 8 clans on the map you are not going to be getting
a lot of people playing this map in 2 years aside from the surviving clans - and that would only be if the gameplay was good enough.
Any more than that and you would a) severely restrict the game settings usable on the map and b) result in way too many territories to impose
decent gameplay on.

However, let's take the excellent idea presented earlier. Work with the Foundry and lack, and see if they are for or against a fluid map.
So for example after every season, the map image gets changed, and the map XML has the territory and continents renamed without any change to the gameplay. If that happens, I can see this being a very popular map. (Call it an annual revamp/overhaul).

Gameplay ought also to reflect clan challenges (this is just an opinion). Clans challenge each other, and there may be many simultaneous clan challenges. Maybe the map should reflect that by designing the continents/starting positions so that you force pairs of clans to fight each other to begin with. The portal idea is a good one, maybe use that to offer a choice of which clan to 'challenge'.

So from my point of view, I think this has a lot of potential, so long as you don't try and imprison it with arbitrary restrictions.
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Re: Clan Chaos Map

Postby Chariot of Fire on Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:00 pm

First of all let me say thanks for giving TOFU consideration. There are a lot of well-deserving clans that warrant inclusion and this, in my mind, is part of the problem. It's a clash between 'incorporating everybody' and 'creating good gameplay', plus there's a conflict between clans' history and clans' ability.

Is it too radical to propose two maps?

Map 1 = take an existing map (e.g. Feudal Epic) and simply convert it so that it has the eight prominent clans featured. This can be done almost overnight as everything is already in place, and it satisfies the demands of the people who prefer an '8 clan' map. The game style would be the same as Feudal.

Map 2 = the new map, one that incorporates all the clans, on such a scale as WWII Europe (which has 17 decent bonus regions).

Or take 1 & 2 and reverse the idea (i.e. amend WW2 Europe immediately and put 17 clans on it, the same way Classic became Classic Art) and then spend time getting Map 1 right.

I think what matters most is to get the gameplay perfect so that it's actually something people will want to play. Iron out all those kinks and get it perfect and see what you're left with. In the meantime just amend any existing map and get something started with either 8 or 16/17/18 clans, whichever is different to the one in progress.

What I'm trying to say is....let's not rush decisions - this is an opportunity to make something really good, but in the meantime can we not simply relabel bonuses in an existing map and keep a vast number of people happy?

Thanks :D
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