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San Francisco [Quenched]

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Postby Lone.prophet on Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:06 am

san pablo is kinda useless
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Postby luckiekevin on Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:00 pm

san pablo is kinda useless


making the map all the more realistic :)
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Postby johloh on Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:06 pm

making the map all the more realistic


hahaha. oh man. thats totally not true. san pablo has a great burrito truck on san pablo ave. but thats about it.
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Postby Bad Speler on Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:08 pm

S. San Francisco seems a bit bright in the legend.
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Postby johloh on Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:09 pm

S. San Francisco seems a bit bright in the legend.

agreed. fixed!
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Postby casper on Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:20 pm

Great map! Although I think the fonts could be tweaked a bit. They're pretty boring. Personally I think some sort of sans serif would look better. Also... Oakland and Richmond colors look pretty close to each other. I know Oakland is supposed to be blue according to the legend but it looks almost purple on my monitor.

As for your new questions... I think Alcatraz should remain neutral. I like the idea of not being able to attack out of it but that could be really frustrating. Maybe go with the -1 per round idea.

Hope to see this map quenched soon. :-)
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Postby oaktown on Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:45 am

johloh wrote:-Should i delete another region somewhere to hold the number divisible by 6? and, if so which one?
-Should alcatraz be part of the SF continent (add ANOTHER border), the Marin continent, or remain neutral?
-Should it have a feature like only being able to attack in, but not out...or you lost a army there each turn, or whatever. and which one (or a different one) would you like?
-Do you like the way the sea routes are drawn? maybe sausalito should go into alcatraz too, even though its not accurate in real life...it would make alcatraz more of a key point...

Nice work on Alcatraz... my thoughts on your questions:
-If you want to lose a region, I think I'd do it in the east bay or north bay. Maybe lose the navy base, which has been closed for ten years anyway, and make alameda one territory. Also, the fact that alameda is an island may not be obvious - maybe select and drag the whole island down a few pixels to give it some space from Oakland? (Alamedans would kiss your feet if your could do that in real life.)
- I like the idea of Alcatraz being unique: not part of a continent, can't attack out. I'm never a fan of bonuses or penalties for owning a single territory, because then it's luck of the draw.
- As for sea routes to alcatraz, I like sticking with reality, so no saualito ferry. I will not, however, insist on ferries from alameda to the city - or angel island (there is one).
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Postby Incandenza on Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:15 am

It would be hard to justify not only making it impossible to attack out of alcatraz, but also to assign a -1 army to whoever owns it. All you're doing is making it that much harder for one and only one player to win the game. Once they get alcatraz as part of their drop, they're screwed. The only time anyone is going to do the favor of taking it from them is when that nominal samaritan in the process of killing off that unfortunate soul.

Sure keep it neutral. Why not make it impossible to attack out of. But no -1. Too much.
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Postby t.e.c on Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:13 am

you could move the "china basin" label to the right a little, it looks cramped.

other than that it looks great.
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Postby perchorin on Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:19 am

Should it have a feature like only being able to attack in, but not out

I love this idea, after all nobody escapes from Alcatraz :lol:
This map keeps getting better and better, keep up the great work johloh!
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Postby johloh on Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:35 am

you could move the "china basin" label to the right a little, it looks cramped.
agreed. and done.

Sure keep it neutral. Why not make it impossible to attack out of.
so it seems that everyone wants to keep it neutral, and to make it attack in, but not attack out. my only issue with this is that it makes this territory basically completely worthless....its not a real border because nobody can attack you from it....it does not give a bonus....its not part of a continent....so why would you ever 'want' to hold it?

If you want to lose a region, I think I'd do it in the east bay or north bay. Maybe lose the navy base, which has been closed for ten years anyway, and make alameda one territory
thats the place I was thinking too. done.

Also, the fact that alameda is an island may not be obvious - maybe select and drag the whole island down a few pixels to give it some space from Oakland?
I was wondering if this was clear myself. good suggestion, ill pull it out a little...alamedans rejoice.

I think the fonts could be tweaked a bit. They're pretty boring. Personally I think some sort of sans serif would look better
Ill play with a couple different ones and have a poll. they are pretty standard.

Oakland is supposed to be blue
Ill move it a little away from purple. youre right.

and thanks everyone! this is exactly what I need to make this map better...lots of feedback, I appreciate it.
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Postby Bad Speler on Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:05 am

I agree with johloh that not making alcatraz able to attack out would make it pointless, no one would try to take it unless kiilling the person who has it. About keeping it neutral, I cant say as I do not know the geography of the area.
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Postby oaktown on Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:17 am

Bad Speler wrote:I agree with johloh that not making alcatraz able to attack out would make it pointless, no one would try to take it unless kiilling the person who has it. About keeping it neutral, I cant say as I do not know the geography of the area.


agreed, either make it neutral or attack in only. Owning it and having to spend armies to defend it shouldn't be a penalty.
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Postby johloh on Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:21 am

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-made south san francisco legend color less bright
-moved china basin text over a smidge
-made alameda one region (removed naval base) to keep # divisible by 6
-move island of alameda down a bit, to make it clear that it is an island.
-made oakland a lighter blue...problem is when you fade it over black it does look a little purple, even when the color isnt...and if i move it too close to cyan it will look like that continent....better?

I went through all my fonts on my comp (standard windows ones) and didnt like any of them better....can people maybe suggest some specific ones that they think might look good? im bad with fonts.
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Postby Bad Speler on Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:25 am

As with fonts, I think a sans-serif one would look best on this map, perhaps a simple arial font?
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Postby santon836 on Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:27 am

Yep really sans serif.
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Postby casper on Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:05 am

something like this might work. helvetica medium with -25 kerning.

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Postby perchorin on Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:26 am

if Alcatraz gave you a +1 bonus for holding it, then the territory would have some value even though you couldn't attack out of it. It would make you decide how many armies to keep there in defense to get the bonus, but still come out ahead in gross terms when you subtract the armies used for defense, if you can get my meaning. For example, putting 10 armies there would be dumb, since you wouldn't make a profit for ten turns, but if you risk holding it with 3 armies, you can really come out ahead potentially. Anyway it would be another strategic element for the game, and make the map more unique.
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Postby luckiekevin on Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:16 pm

I actually like the font you have. 6 cents one way, half a dozen the other if you ask me. As for Alcatraz, I think that not being to attack out of it is a wonderful idea and would add a unique dimension to this map and to CC. I agree that a -1 bonus is a bad idea as it is the luck of the draw, but so would giving it a +1 just for having it..


What if you got a +1 bonus (it was beneficial to the city and still is) if you owned it simultaneously with downtown or Marin? but unless you own all of Marin or Downtown, you get no bonus. just a thought
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Postby johloh on Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:43 pm

What if you got a +1 bonus (it was beneficial to the city and still is) if you owned it simultaneously with downtown or Marin? but unless you own all of Marin or Downtown, you get no bonus. just a thought

perfect idea! the only thing holding me back from the bonus was the fact that somebody would start with it, and I really dont like people starting with a bonus.

do other people agree? you can only get the bonus if you hold downtown or marin continents?
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Postby max is gr8 on Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:58 pm

Yeah a 1+ bonus for owning alcatraz and marin
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Postby perchorin on Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:46 pm

johloh wrote:
What if you got a +1 bonus (it was beneficial to the city and still is) if you owned it simultaneously with downtown or Marin? but unless you own all of Marin or Downtown, you get no bonus. just a thought

perfect idea! the only thing holding me back from the bonus was the fact that somebody would start with it, and I really dont like people starting with a bonus.

do other people agree? you can only get the bonus if you hold downtown or marin continents?

I like this idea too, but I think you should be able to get the bonus if you hold either Marin or Downtown, that way if two different players each hold one of those they'll have something more to fight over :twisted:
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Postby luckiekevin on Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:16 pm

yeah thats what i said
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Postby perchorin on Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:21 pm

luckiekevin wrote:yeah thats what i said

And it was a fabulous idea! :P
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Postby johloh on Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:42 pm

either Marin or Downtown
thats how i took it too...maybe i resaid it weird.
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