Conquer Club

natty_dread wrote:Sigh...

People complained when we reduced the starting positions to 4. We increased it back to 8, and now...

How about a compromise? If we set them at 6 everyone should be happy, right?

Or 5?

How many players actually complained? I can't even imagine a decent 1v1 player actually wanting to add starting points to this map. As a 1v1 player I even thought 4 was too much of an advantage for the start. Three would probably be ideal in my opinion. I really hope the players that play this map get in here and express their opinions. I really like playing this map myself. So far I started two games with 8 bases and the game is over before the other player even goes.

I think even a compromise to five or six starting points and the game for 1v1 just becomes a whoever gets lucky enough to start game.

I suggest checking into the new 1v1 games that are starting and checking the chat out. I wish more players did express opinions though because if only a few do so it skews what most people probably think.

HighlanderAttack wrote:I suggest checking into the new 1v1 games that are starting and checking the chat out. I wish more players did express opinions though because if only a few do so it skews what most people probably think.

I actually do that for most of my maps... and yes it would be nice if more people would post their concerns in map threads.

I'll see if I can find the relative posts about the starting positions...

i don't care how many people complain about you reducing starting territories. increasing starting territories to a point where the game is over before the 1st round takes all the skill and strategy out of playing the map.

you might as well put in a victory condition of whoever goes first wins and save everyone some time.

greenoaks wrote:i don't care how many people complain about you reducing starting territories. increasing starting territories to a point where the game is over before the 1st round takes all the skill and strategy out of playing the map.

you might as well put in a victory condition of whoever goes first wins and save everyone some time.

Greenoaks, we have been talking about removing the starting territory cap for about a dozen pages now. I know you have been following the thread, I saw your posts way back... why didn't you say anything before we implemented the change?

Anyway, we've made lots of updates on this map since it was released for beta - this has been the hardest map to balance between different game types during my mapmaking career: it's very hard to make this map balanced both in multiplayer singles and 1v1 or team games. We're trying our best, according to the feedback we receive, all I ask is that you give the map a chance, if it doesn't work we can discuss and try to come up with a solution.

So, capping the bases back to 4 is certainly doable... but at this point, after already making what, 3-4? updates on the map, I just want to be certain that I won't have to change it right back again.

greenoaks wrote:i don't care how many people complain about you reducing starting territories. increasing starting territories to a point where the game is over before the 1st round takes all the skill and strategy out of playing the map.

you might as well put in a victory condition of whoever goes first wins and save everyone some time.

x2

Also I wanna add that I thought the map was great the way it played when it first came out, could have gone without a BETA tag as far as I was concerned. Now it seems like it's being updated to death. Can we just put it back the way it was when it first came out?

Nope, sorry. But we can put back the starting position cap.

also maybe not so many armies to start with could help keep it more even going from second position. Right now you have a good chance of starting with 16 more armies in round 2--at least 10 for sure

if u started the bases with 1 army then it becomes more even --even with 8 starting points--I still like three starting points either way--I see that not too many players were shocked with the new 8 starting points based on all the comments

HighlanderAttack wrote:if u started the bases with 1 army then it becomes more even --even with 8 starting points--I still like three starting points either way--I see that not too many players were shocked with the new 8 starting points based on all the comments

I was rather amazed when I saw my opponent take an amazing amount of territories in his first turn. I agree that 8 starting points is too much. On a side note, I would like to thank you for the map, it's awesome (even if it was more awesome).

mr. CD wrote:On a side note, I would like to thank you for the map, it's awesome (even if it was more awesome).

Thanks, it's nice to hear someone appreciates our work

HighlanderAttack wrote:if u started the bases with 1 army then it becomes more even --even with 8 starting points--I still like three starting points either way--I see that not too many players were shocked with the new 8 starting points based on all the comments

Yeah but that would be bad for multiplayer games - it would be hard to move out from your base except with good dice.

How about if we reduce the starting armies to 4 and cap the bases to 4?

Well it seems as nobody is happy with any of the changes we've made while in beta. I think we'll find the best solution and stick with it. I agree with natty on this being the hardest map to balance out for every game type. The problem being in attempting to balance it for every game type is that it is impossible to do so. The only possible exception to that is a map that is very symmetrical with every bonus being the same, with the same number of territories. No one wants a map like that because it is too boring.

Now the way I see this is doing it this way:
1. Reduce the starting men to 3,
2. Cap the starting bases at 4 which means:
2, 3, and 4 player games each gets 4
5 player games each gets 3
6, 7, and 8 player games each gets 2

I believe this would be the best possible solution. Starting with 3 on the bases will hopefully prevent anyone from getting too many territories at the beginning as they will only have 6 men to start with. I am thinking that maybe we should go with getting a flat 3 men per turn no matter how many territories you hold, but that may cause players to just stack on their bases.

As always, your comments are welcome. Let's just get this figured out and quenched as soon as possible.

isaiah40 wrote:I am thinking that maybe we should go with getting a flat 3 men per turn no matter how many territories you hold, but that may cause players to just stack on their bases.

We already have that. Territory bonus is 3 for any amount, so the only source of troops is the land bonus (+2 for 2).

Anyway, the changes you speak of sound good to me. Starting troops to 3, starting bases to max. 4.

Here's the new XML:

Hi,

I realy liked this map and used to have great results (1 tourney win and only 1 lost until today).
But since it's a 8 base start, I don't see any more interest in this map.
You start, you win ...
You already know all the start position of your ennemy.
I realy prefered the 4 bases start.
Thx for taking care of my opinion

But a big thx for the work you've done to create this map.

fairman wrote:Hi,

I realy liked this map and used to have great results (1 tourney win and only 1 lost until today).
But since it's a 8 base start, I don't see any more interest in this map.
You start, you win ...
You already know all the start position of your ennemy.
I realy prefered the 4 bases start.
Thx for taking care of my opinion

But a big thx for the work you've done to create this map.

It will be changed back, I have already submitted the new xml.

The new xml should now be live...

Thanks MrB! That was fast

Thanks. I will see what happens my next game.

We do appreciate all you do, just so you know, just voicing concerns.

And trust me--every game I played with the 8 bases I won or lead in as I got the start in all of them

is there any bonus for holding a region? just want to ask, thanks.

also, what does the notation mean in the lower right corner? "territories: +3 bonus for holding any amount." not sure I follow. thanks.

Yes, it's +2 for each 2 territories in the same area.

+3 is in stead of the normal territory bonus you get which is +1 for each 3 territories.

Awesome, thanks. It looks perfect again now <3

I am liking how it is playing 1v1 again thanks

HighlanderAttack wrote:I am liking how it is playing 1v1 again thanks

Thanks for the thanks

Agreed, much better now.