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Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:39 pm
by The Bison King
The Bison King wrote:

England could use some shortening in the style similar as you've done with France and Scotland could use some lengthening.



That's a lot easier said than done :cry: we'll see i that needs to happen.



See, here is one flaw in this technique of yours - painting on watercolour and scanning it on computer. It worked great for Thyseneal, but this is a very different project, one that may require more tweaking - mainly because you don't have such a highly developed concept to start from.

Perhaps you should first do a draft with only outlines of territories on computer, then make sure the layout is satisfactory, then print out the outlines on paper, paint it over with watercolour, then scan it and import it as the colour layer... :-k

Either way it would be better if you would get the gameplay worked out first, and then when you're in graphics workshop start working with the watercolour.

But I have to say... even though I really love the style on your Thyseneal map, I'm afraid relying too much on your painting skills may prevent you from developing your computer graphics skills. I'm just suggesting that you might want to try different techniques, because otherwise you will be placing limits to what kind of maps you will be able to do in the future....
Image


I had the unpainted draft for a really really long time, there was a lot of time (a couple months) to comment on it if you wanted to but you didn't. Besides I can make adjustments on the computer, just regarding Scotland, I'd rather not if I don't have to that's all. admittedly it's a little harder than before I painted but I can do it (like I already did with Spain) Also I'm trying to fib geography as little as possible that's all.

Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:44 pm
by natty dread
The Bison King wrote:I had the unpainted draft for a really really long time, there was a lot of time (a couple months) to comment on it if you wanted to but you didn't. Besides I can make adjustments on the computer, just regarding Scotland, I'd rather not if I don't have to that's all. admittedly it's a little harder than before I painted but I can do it (like I already did with Spain) Also I'm trying to fib geography as little as possible that's all.


I'm just trying to offer advice, that's all. Either way, it would be advisable to get the gameplay & overall layout of the map sorted before you start working on the graphics.

As for the unpainted draft being up for a long time, well, you know how it is around here. Any thread that isn't constantly posted on tends to drift slowly into oblivion ;)

Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:29 pm
by mattattam
I really like your new look on this map. Very appealing. I already want to play it. I'll take a longer look later. Looking forward to seeing this map develop. :D

Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:35 pm
by perchorin
Looks like a great map, I agree with some of the above statements though, the Spanish areas would be better in an inset map or something, the first look I had made me think there were two different Celtic parts of France.

Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:24 am
by mattattam
This map is very simple and straightforward while bringing something unique in the set up and game play. A lot of people have been commenting that they want new maps that aren't so complicated and I think this fits the bill perfectly.

And although natty disagrees with me I think the open space in this map is a part of that. Someone looking at this map doesn't need to spend the night figuring it out. I like complicated maps, and this is just something simple that also brings something different from any map currently on CC.

Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:32 am
by mattattam
So, I figure you are having London, Isle of man, and Celtic Sea start neutral. You could put that in the first post unless you're thinking of doing something different?

Just to throw this thought out there, I think using something different then the dashes to show connections between territories would make this map even more appealing. That is something that can be addressed in graphics though.

My biggest concern with this map is Cornwall. My suggestion is to add another territory to it so it has 3 territories instead of 2. This would make it more reasonable as a bonus of 2. Then you could have it connected to another territory in Wales or Brittany via dotted line which would open Cornwall up more and make it less of a bottleneck.

Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:43 am
by rockandrull
You painted that map?
Damn!

Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:56 pm
by MarshalNey
This map is beautiful. I say paint away, if this 'limits' the maps that you can do, so what? I wish I was that limited.

The comment about Spain's northern part looking like France upon first glance is unfortunately correct. Maybe, you could cheat in the southern coast of Spain to give us the sense of a penninsula?

Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:33 pm
by The Bison King
Looks like a great map, I agree with some of the above statements though, the Spanish areas would be better in an inset map or something, the first look I had made me think there were two different Celtic parts of France.


The comment about Spain's northern part looking like France upon first glance is unfortunately correct. Maybe, you could cheat in the southern coast of Spain to give us the sense of a penninsula?


hmm... I see. Here's my Idea. I'll rework the sizing a little bit on the actual map to make Galicia a little bigger (It really should be a little bigger any way) Then I'll add the mini map to Illustrate the bonuses. The mini map will be slightly zoomed out to give you a clearer picture of the region you are looking at. Sound good?

So, I figure you are having London, Isle of man, and Celtic Sea start neutral. You could put that in the first post unless you're thinking of doing something different?


yeah that's a good idea. Celtic sea needs to start as a neutral (because it wouldn't be fair to start one player on a diminishing territory) but it has to start low (only 1 or 2 troops since it's a natural choke point) You know, I was thinking that it could work as a killer neutral, so long as it only brings it back down to 1 neutral, But either way I think it works fine.

My biggest concern with this map is Cornwall. My suggestion is to add another territory to it so it has 3 territories instead of 2. This would make it more reasonable as a bonus of 2. Then you could have it connected to another territory in Wales or Brittany via dotted line which would open Cornwall up more and make it less of a bottleneck.


Yes I think that there is a bit of a bottle neck concern their. I'm not sure I need to add a territory, not only is there no historical evidence supporting a larger region of Cornwall or "Kenrow" but I like there being a small 2 territory bonus that helps divide the southern and northern portions of the map. However here are a couple idea's to help ease that area as a choke point: Either connect Devon, to either Munster, Cardiff, or Pembrokeshire, or maybe even a combination of 2 of them.

Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:25 am
by mattattam
I like Celtic Sea only being 1 or 2 to start. I prefer 1 unless I hear a good argument for more. Also I think it would be better as a diminishing territory. I don't think it would make much difference if it was a killer neutral or diminishing because people will most likely not stay there anyways.

What do you think about having London start 4 neutral?

I like the idea of having devon connect to cotes d'amour, munster, and cardiff.

Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:47 am
by The Bison King
What do you think about having London start 4 neutral?
perhaps 1 too many 3 will probably work fine.

I like the idea of having devon connect to cotes d'amour, munster, and cardiff.


both munster and cardiff? maybe... if you had to pick 1 which one would you say?

Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:54 pm
by mattattam
both munster and cardiff? maybe... if you had to pick 1 which one would you say?


I would pick munster. I like all 3 because it would really open the map up. Two more will work, but 3 would be awesome ;)

Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:01 pm
by The Bison King
I would pick munster. I like all 3 because it would really open the map up. Two more will work, but 3 would be awesome ;)


We'll start with just Munster on the next draft, and we'll see later on about adding cardiff, or pembrokeshire.

Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:56 pm
by The Bison King
I'll have a new draft soon, I promise :wink:

Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:23 pm
by Industrial Helix
You're going to make a new draft?

If you do, don't take your time to paint it. Give us a basic idea of the gameplay in a computer graphics thing before you go all out on graphics, save the effort for the workshop as we know you're proven in the graphics department.

Anyway, looking forward to what comes next!

Re: Celtic 7 Nations improved graphic, check it out!

PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:45 pm
by theBastard
The Bison King wrote:I'll have a new draft soon, I promise :wink:


maybe you could named territories by any old Celtic names. the map is from far past and some names sounds peliculiar to me...
but is is just me ;)

Re: Celtic 7 Nations New draft (with mini map!)

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:05 am
by The Bison King
Image

Image

Differences:

some of the territory names

added a mini map

connected Devon to Munster and Dyfed

maybe you could named territories by any old Celtic names. the map is from far past and some names sounds peliculiar to me...
but is is just me ;)


Yeah I've been looking for names in books. I found some older names for regions in Brittany and added them in this draft. I also changed some names in Scotland, but those will probably be changed again though... I'm, not particularly happy with the names in Scotland.

If you do, don't take your time to paint it. Give us a basic idea of the gameplay in a computer graphics thing before you go all out on graphics, save the effort for the workshop as we know you're proven in the graphics department.


Don't worry about that, I only need to paint it the one time. I painted each Island separately and pieced it together on the computer. I can make a lot of changes with out having to repaint anything. Also I stretched Scotland a little for you ;)

Re: Celtic 7 Nations New draft (with mini map!)

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:35 am
by Sniper08
i think the mini is a bit too big and maybe you can shorten the distance between scotland and wales cause its looks way to big on the map.
Where you have munster is actually south leinster so maybe rename it to south leinster or wexford.

the map is looking good,good work and keep the updates coming :D .

Re: Celtic 7 Nations New draft (with mini map!)

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:36 am
by theBastard
the names looks much better now. I write here some more names, use them if you like them ;)

your names::: new ones::: why
-------------- ----------- -----
cork::: munster::: cork was established by Vikings much later
munster::: leinster::: leinster is more in this area as munster
limerick::: dal cais::: limerick was founded by Vikings.
leinster::: mide::: old kingdom
border country::: oriel::: old kingdom
ulster::: ulaid::: old name

highlands::: cait::: old pictish kingdom
aberdeen::: circinn::: old pictish kingdom
garmpain::: fortriu::: old pictish kingdom
strathclyde::: ystrad clud::: older name
edinburgh::: gododdin::: old brithonic kingdom

cardiff::: gwent::: cardiff is town, gwent is region´s name

isle of man::: mann::: old form of name

the rest looks good. here is only question if you will use english form or also celtic. I´m not sure about London - it was not so important at this era, maybe better could be have it also as celtic sea - London it is just crossing point...?

Re: Celtic 7 Nations, Name Checking

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:49 pm
by The Bison King
your names::: new ones::: why
-------------- ----------- -----
cork::: munster::: cork was established by Vikings much later
munster::: leinster::: leinster is more in this area as munster
limerick::: dal cais::: limerick was founded by Vikings.
leinster::: mide::: old kingdom
border country::: oriel::: old kingdom
ulster::: ulaid::: old name

highlands::: cait::: old pictish kingdom
aberdeen::: circinn::: old pictish kingdom
garmpain::: fortriu::: old pictish kingdom
strathclyde::: ystrad clud::: older name
edinburgh::: gododdin::: old brithonic kingdom

cardiff::: gwent::: cardiff is town, gwent is region´s name

isle of man::: mann::: old form of name


Thank you this is a big help!!! Sniper08 mentioned the Leinster thing as well so I'll make that change. Actually I'll probably make most all of these changes, especially in Scotland. I want to cross check theses before I drop them onto the map so I'm making a call for all Native Irishmen, Scotsmen, and Welshmen to check out these old names and make sure they fit. I just looked over the Scottish names and they all seem to fit (except it might make more sense to switch the location of Circinn and Fortiu) and they're all from the same era which is also good.

Oh yeah and...

I´m not sure about London - it was not so important at this era, maybe better could be have it also as celtic sea - London it is just crossing point...?


I read in a book that London was built over a druidic site of worship. Many of the old druid site remained until they were destroyed in WWII. I needed a crossing point across the land in Great Britain to connect Scotland, Cornwall, and Wales. It presented itself as a convenient option. Maybe as time goes on I'll be able to find the old Druid name for the site and be able to replace it with that.

Re: Celtic 7 Nations New draft (with mini map!)

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:58 pm
by natty dread
Why is Stonehenge not on this map?

Re: Celtic 7 Nations New draft (with mini map!)

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:05 pm
by The Bison King
Why is Stonehenge not on this map?


hmmm #-o what if we were to change the London crossing point into Stonehenge instead? It would then make more sense as a +1 and they're *relatively* in the same place

Re: Celtic 7 Nations New draft (with mini map!)

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:10 pm
by natty dread
The stones of stonehenge would make for a nifty army circle too ;)

Re: Celtic 7 Nations, Name Checking

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:30 pm
by theBastard
The Bison King wrote:Thank you this is a big help!!! Sniper08 mentioned the Leinster thing as well so I'll make that change. Actually I'll probably make most all of these changes, especially in Scotland. I want to cross check theses before I drop them onto the map so I'm making a call for all Native Irishmen, Scotsmen, and Welshmen to check out these old names and make sure they fit. I just looked over the Scottish names and they all seem to fit (except it might make more sense to switch the location of Circinn and Fortiu) and they're all from the same era which is also good.


not at all. the problem is that I do not know from which era is map. better said map is from hundreds years so it is hard to find names from the same era...
I a little changed positions of Fortriu and Circinn because Fortriu was at Moray position.

The Bison King wrote:Oh yeah and...

I read in a book that London was built over a druidic site of worship. Many of the old druid site remained until they were destroyed in WWII. I needed a crossing point across the land in Great Britain to connect Scotland, Cornwall, and Wales. It presented itself as a convenient option. Maybe as time goes on I'll be able to find the old Druid name for the site and be able to replace it with that.


I did not mean that London is bad idea. just have it as Celtic sea - so not auto-deploy but killer neutral...

maybe Stonehenge would be better?

Re: Celtic 7 Nations New draft (with mini map!)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:23 am
by mattattam
I like the new names :). The connection from devon to dyfed doesn't feel right to me. I think it would go better with devon connected to cardiff. Dyfed is right next to munster and I don't think it serves much of a purpose to have those two connected.

What if you connect devon to cardiff and have Londres connected to powys?