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Re: Quad Cities Map [29 Aug 2011] v7.03.2 pg. 1&27

Postby Orwell on Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:46 am

When will the map be available to play?
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Re: Quad Cities Map [29 Aug 2011] v7.03.2 pg. 1&27

Postby Bruceswar on Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:47 am

tobinov wrote:When will the map be available to play?



Soon as lack uploads the files. Should be this week sometime, I assume.
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Re: Quad Cities Map [29 Aug 2011] v7.03.2 pg. 1&27

Postby DandC130:2 on Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:04 am

This map looks awesome can"t wait to play it !!!
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Re: Quad Cities Map [29 Aug 2011] v7.03.2 pg. 1&27

Postby Orwell on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:37 am

Bruceswar wrote:
tobinov wrote:When will the map be available to play?

Soon as lack uploads the files. Should be this week sometime, I assume.

OK - I'll admit that I'm impatient: how long can it take to upload files, eh?! :)
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Re: Quad Cities Map [29 Aug 2011] v7.03.2 pg. 1&27

Postby MrBenn on Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:22 pm

ironsij0287 wrote:Thanks everyone. I'm happy to finally see this thing go Beta.

Well done =D>
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Re: Quad Cities Map [29 Aug 2011] v7.03.2 pg. 1&27

Postby ender516 on Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:54 pm

tobinov wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:
tobinov wrote:When will the map be available to play?

Soon as lack uploads the files. Should be this week sometime, I assume.

OK - I'll admit that I'm impatient: how long can it take to upload files, eh?! :)

Ask DiM, he's watching the clock too.
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Re: Quad Cities Map [29 Aug 2011] v7.03.2 pg. 1&27

Postby Orwell on Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:56 pm

ender516 wrote:
tobinov wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:
tobinov wrote:When will the map be available to play?

Soon as lack uploads the files. Should be this week sometime, I assume.

OK - I'll admit that I'm impatient: how long can it take to upload files, eh?! :)

Ask DiM, he's watching the clock too.

It's available as of today!
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Re: Quad Cities Map [29 Aug 2011] v7.03.2 pg. 1&27

Postby ironsij0287 on Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:54 pm

OK so I noticed something already that I overlooked. My original gameplay intentions were to have Arsenal always begin as a neutral 3 that becomes an autodeploy +1 when held. Right now a player could hold it on the initial drop and have a +1 troop bonus.
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Re: Quad Cities Map [29 Aug 2011] v7.03.2 pg. 1&27

Postby Gilligan on Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:56 am

ironsij0287 wrote:OK so I noticed something already that I overlooked. My original gameplay intentions were to have Arsenal always begin as a neutral 3 that becomes an autodeploy +1 when held. Right now a player could hold it on the initial drop and have a +1 troop bonus.


You should also mention that it is in the form of an autodeploy.
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Re: Quad Cities Map [29 Aug 2011] v7.03.2 pg. 1&27

Postby ironsij0287 on Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:55 am

Gilligan wrote:
ironsij0287 wrote:OK so I noticed something already that I overlooked. My original gameplay intentions were to have Arsenal always begin as a neutral 3 that becomes an autodeploy +1 when held. Right now a player could hold it on the initial drop and have a +1 troop bonus.


You should also mention that it is in the form of an autodeploy.


Yeah it appears that the autodeploy is working but not mentioned in the legend. I will fix that ASAP.
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Re: Quad Cities Map [29 Aug 2011] v7.03.2 pg. 1&27

Postby ironsij0287 on Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:19 am

OK here are the new files.

Small Map:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a193/ ... 3small.jpg
Click image to enlarge.
image


Large Map:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a193/ ... 3large.jpg
Click image to enlarge.
image


Revised XML:
quadcities.xml
(28.69 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
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Re: Quad Cities Map [29 Aug 2011] v7.03.2 pg. 1&27

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:45 am

Gilligan wrote:
ironsij0287 wrote:OK so I noticed something already that I overlooked. My original gameplay intentions were to have Arsenal always begin as a neutral 3 that becomes an autodeploy +1 when held. Right now a player could hold it on the initial drop and have a +1 troop bonus.


You should also mention that it is in the form of an autodeploy.

Just about to post those same things! Thanks for the quick fix, ironsij, though perhaps you should consider lowering Arsenal's neutrals to 2, as I don't really see it coming into play too much otherwise (most players would rather spend troops killing opposing troops rather than neutrals, and the +1 auto-deploy isn't much compensation).

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Re: Quad Cities Map [14 Sep 2011] v7.03.3 BETA

Postby pamoa on Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:03 pm

in 1vs1 right now the gameplay is very unbalanced
northern towns and coal city are way too easy to take and hold for the first player
they must both be coded as starting position so no one can have 2 or 3 of them at drop

edit
and andalusia
de gueules à la tour d'argent ouverte, crénelée de trois pièces et donjonnée d'un donjon ajouré, crénelé de deux pièces
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Re: Quad Cities Map [14 Sep 2011] v7.03.3 BETA

Postby ender516 on Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:25 pm

Oh, dear. It's hard to believe no one picked up on that earlier. Zones with 3 regions are routinely broken up by neutrals or starting positions. I guess someone should have run this through the calculator.

EDIT: Okay, I have run this through MrBenn's calculator. If three starting positions of 3 regions each are created, spread over the those zones (Andalusia, Northern Towns, and Coal Valley), then the chance of dropping a bonus on one of those is eliminated. However, it does mean that in the 1v1 case, the two players each start with 24 regions. 70 minus 1 (for Arsenal) minus the nine regions in starting positions makes 60 basic regions in the pot, but with each player getting one starting position containing 3 regions, the 3 regions in the unused starting position also go into the pot, for a total of 63 to be divided three ways (red, green and neutral). So red gets 3 plus 63/3 (3 + 21 = 24), green gets 3 plus 63/3 (3 + 21 = 24), and neutral gets 1 (Arsenal) plus 63/3 (1 + 21 = 22). 24 + 24 + 22 = 70, so all present and accounted for.

Having players start with 24 regions is bad. The first player gets eight troops to deploy, and if he takes one from the second player, that player only gets seven troops on his turn.

This can be corrected by making one region in each starting position an underlying neutral, so that in a 1v1, when the third starting position is not given to either player, only two regions go into the pot for distribution, with the underlying neutral going directly to the neutral player. With 62 in the pot, red gets 3 plus 62/3 (3 + 20 = 23), green gets 3 plus 62/3 (3 + 20 = 23), and neutral gets 1 (Arsenal) plus 1 (underlying neutral) plus 62/3 (20) plus the remainder of the pot (62 modulo 3 = 2) (1 + 1 + 20 + 2 = 24). 23 + 23 + 24 = 70.

In a 1v1v1 game, everyone gets one starting position consisting of three regions, and 60/3 or 20 from the pot. Arsenal remains the sole neutral. With four or more players, the starting positions are ignored, and the board always start with at least Arsenal and the (fixed) underlying neutrals as neutrals. The remaining 66 regions are split as evenly as possible, with the leftovers also becoming neutrals. So in a 4 player game, each player starts with 16 regions, and two more random neutrals join the fixed four. In a 5 player game, each starts with 13, and one random neutral emerges. In a 6 player game, each starts with 11 regions, and no extra neutral is needed. In a 7 player game, each starts with 9, and three extra neutrals appear. Finally in an 8 player game, each starts with 8 and two extra neutrals appear.

This seems like a clean solution. Going forward with this, a decision is required regarding which regions will be the underlying neutrals and how the starting positions will be grouped (one region from each of the small zones should go into each position: are some more favourable than others? what is a fair mix?)
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Re: Quad Cities Map [14 Sep 2011] v7.03.3 BETA

Postby ironsij0287 on Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:48 am

ender516 wrote:Oh, dear. It's hard to believe no one picked up on that earlier. Zones with 3 regions are routinely broken up by neutrals or starting positions. I guess someone should have run this through the calculator.

EDIT: Okay, I have run this through MrBenn's calculator. If three starting positions of 3 regions each are created, spread over the those zones (Andalusia, Northern Towns, and Coal Valley), then the chance of dropping a bonus on one of those is eliminated. However, it does mean that in the 1v1 case, the two players each start with 24 regions. 70 minus 1 (for Arsenal) minus the nine regions in starting positions makes 60 basic regions in the pot, but with each player getting one starting position containing 3 regions, the 3 regions in the unused starting position also go into the pot, for a total of 63 to be divided three ways (red, green and neutral). So red gets 3 plus 63/3 (3 + 21 = 24), green gets 3 plus 63/3 (3 + 21 = 24), and neutral gets 1 (Arsenal) plus 63/3 (1 + 21 = 22). 24 + 24 + 22 = 70, so all present and accounted for.

Having players start with 24 regions is bad. The first player gets eight troops to deploy, and if he takes one from the second player, that player only gets seven troops on his turn.

This can be corrected by making one region in each starting position an underlying neutral, so that in a 1v1, when the third starting position is not given to either player, only two regions go into the pot for distribution, with the underlying neutral going directly to the neutral player. With 62 in the pot, red gets 3 plus 62/3 (3 + 20 = 23), green gets 3 plus 62/3 (3 + 20 = 23), and neutral gets 1 (Arsenal) plus 1 (underlying neutral) plus 62/3 (20) plus the remainder of the pot (62 modulo 3 = 2) (1 + 1 + 20 + 2 = 24). 23 + 23 + 24 = 70.

In a 1v1v1 game, everyone gets one starting position consisting of three regions, and 60/3 or 20 from the pot. Arsenal remains the sole neutral. With four or more players, the starting positions are ignored, and the board always start with at least Arsenal and the (fixed) underlying neutrals as neutrals. The remaining 66 regions are split as evenly as possible, with the leftovers also becoming neutrals. So in a 4 player game, each player starts with 16 regions, and two more random neutrals join the fixed four. In a 5 player game, each starts with 13, and one random neutral emerges. In a 6 player game, each starts with 11 regions, and no extra neutral is needed. In a 7 player game, each starts with 9, and three extra neutrals appear. Finally in an 8 player game, each starts with 8 and two extra neutrals appear.

This seems like a clean solution. Going forward with this, a decision is required regarding which regions will be the underlying neutrals and how the starting positions will be grouped (one region from each of the small zones should go into each position: are some more favourable than others? what is a fair mix?)


OK, I get what you're saying. All the numbers made my head spin a little. :?

I'm open for suggestions on what I need to do to fix this. I made need some assistance with how to code everything in the XML.

Also what Sully said about making Arsenal a Neutral 2 instead of 3. I'm fine with that, but does anyone else have any thoughts about it?
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