Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

[LeFrench]

I'm playing this map, its great but i think there may be a math error in the east.
I hold the praetor (Orientis) and you are supposed to be awarded +1 troop for every 4 regions in his preatorship.
i hold 28 regions and yet am gaining only +6.

I've also noticed that sometimes i am not awarded the praetor bonus if the vicarious seat is not owned for the regions
in the praetor, though in the above example, i own ALL the orientis vicarious seats.
anyway something is off with the scripting.

consider this a bug report.

cheers
Lefrench

[ender516]

I'm playing this map, its great but i think there may be a math error in the east.
I hold the praetor (Orientis) and you are supposed to be awarded +1 troop for every 4 regions in his preatorship.
i hold 28 regions and yet am gaining only +6.

I've also noticed that sometimes i am not awarded the praetor bonus if the vicarious seat is not owned for the regions
in the praetor, though in the above example, i own ALL the orientis vicarious seats.
anyway something is off with the scripting.

consider this a bug report.

cheers
Lefrench

It's always best to post a game number so others can check out your concerns.

[LeFrench]

well, its game 10809390. Its ongoing. and i'm staring at the weird math bug now.

but you won't be able to examine it properly. its a "fog" game

the technical support guy already told me as much.
i'm Yellow, own all the green except 2 (there are 30 in total), and for some reason the praetor is still coming up +6

thanks for commenting tho.

[ender516]

I just read the XML, and I think you're right. The continents concerned with Orientis Praefectura require 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, and 30 troops, and, when held with Orientis Praetor, provide 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 troops. However, by my count of the territories included in those continents in the XML, there are 31 territories in the Orientis Praefectura. In any case, no chance for eight bonus troops, but that 7 should kick in at 28 territories.
The XML shows these territories in the Orientis Praefectura:

Code: Select all

      <territory>Constantinopolis (Imperial Capital)</territory>
      <territory>TI</territory>
      <territory>TII (Legion)</territory>
      <territory>TIII</territory>
      <territory>TIV</territory>
      <territory>Nicomedia</territory>
      <territory>PI</territory>
      <territory>PII</territory>
      <territory>PIII</territory>
      <territory>PIV</territory>
      <territory>PV</territory>
      <territory>Ephesus</territory>
      <territory>AI</territory>
      <territory>AII</territory>
      <territory>AIII</territory>
      <territory>AIV (Legion)</territory>
      <territory>AV</territory>
      <territory>Antiochia</territory>
      <territory>OI</territory>
      <territory>OII (Legion)</territory>
      <territory>OIII</territory>
      <territory>OIV</territory>
      <territory>OV</territory>
      <territory>OVI</territory>
      <territory>OVII</territory>
      <territory>Alexandria</territory>
      <territory>AEI</territory>
      <territory>AEII</territory>
      <territory>AEIII (Legion)</territory>
      <territory>AEIV</territory>
      <territory>AEV</territory>

So if you have all but 2, that makes 29, which will only get you 6 with the existing bonus structure. But based on the legend, that's wrong.

[LeFrench]

ah, cool. good to know.

i guess someone doesn't know their x4 multiplication tables

thanks for the time and effort.

[Kabanellas]

I'll correct it asap guys! thanks for noticing it

[Kabanellas]

XML - corrected:

http://www.freewebs.com/kabanellas/Conquer_Rome_V1.6a.xml

I've also noticed a lot of overrides on continents... I don't have the slightest idea why I did it at the time, but I don't think that's necessary. It's just a waste of space.
Ender, you're the expert, what do you think?

Example:

Code: Select all

<continent>
   <name>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 4</name>
   <bonus>2</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Roma Vicarious</territory>
      <continent>Italia Suburbicaria 4</continent>
   </components>
   <overrides>
      <override>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 2</override>
   </overrides>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 6</name>
   <bonus>3</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Roma Vicarious</territory>
      <continent>Italia Suburbicaria 6</continent>
   </components>
   <overrides>
      <override>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 2</override>
      <override>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 4</override>
   </overrides>
</continent>

[ender516]

It's getting a bit late for me to do any serious reading tonight, and I will be busy tomorrow with my daughter's dance recital, so if I don't post something more pertinent in a couple of days, bump this thread or send me a PM.

[isaiah40]

The new files have now been uploaded!!

[nolefan5311]

XML - corrected:

http://www.freewebs.com/kabanellas/Conquer_Rome_V1.6a.xml

I've also noticed a lot of overrides on continents... I don't have the slightest idea why I did it at the time, but I don't think that's necessary. It's just a waste of space.
Ender, you're the expert, what do you think?

Example:

Code: Select all

<continent>
   <name>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 4</name>
   <bonus>2</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Roma Vicarious</territory>
      <continent>Italia Suburbicaria 4</continent>
   </components>
   <overrides>
      <override>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 2</override>
   </overrides>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 6</name>
   <bonus>3</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Roma Vicarious</territory>
      <continent>Italia Suburbicaria 6</continent>
   </components>
   <overrides>
      <override>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 2</override>
      <override>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 4</override>
   </overrides>
</continent>

The overrides need to be in place so that a person can't get the +1, +2, and +3 for holding 6 terts, correct? Removing them would yield a +6 for holding Italia Sub. 6. If you change that, the legend would need to be updated as well, which I think at this would be change for the sake of change.

[ender516]

XML - corrected:

http://www.freewebs.com/kabanellas/Conquer_Rome_V1.6a.xml

I've also noticed a lot of overrides on continents... I don't have the slightest idea why I did it at the time, but I don't think that's necessary. It's just a waste of space.
Ender, you're the expert, what do you think?

Example:

Code: Select all

<continent>
   <name>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 4</name>
   <bonus>2</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Roma Vicarious</territory>
      <continent>Italia Suburbicaria 4</continent>
   </components>
   <overrides>
      <override>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 2</override>
   </overrides>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 6</name>
   <bonus>3</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Roma Vicarious</territory>
      <continent>Italia Suburbicaria 6</continent>
   </components>
   <overrides>
      <override>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 2</override>
      <override>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 4</override>
   </overrides>
</continent>

The overrides need to be in place so that a person can't get the +1, +2, and +3 for holding 6 terts, correct? Removing them would yield a +6 for holding Italia Sub. 6. If you change that, the legend would need to be updated as well, which I think at this would be change for the sake of change.

nolefan5311 seems to be on track here. It is possible that the overrides for the continents with the required counts (like Italia Suburbicaria 6, which overrides the corresponding 4 and 2) would prevent more than one of the Vicarious + <<whatever>> continents from being activated at one time, but the existing code seems okay, so if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Kabanellas]

That was the wrong example this is more like it:

Code: Select all

<continent>
   <name>Asiana 2</name>
   <bonus>0</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Ephesus</territory>
      <territory>AI</territory>
      <territory>AII</territory>
      <territory>AIII</territory>
      <territory>AIV (Legion)</territory>
      <territory>AV</territory>
   </components>
   <required>2</required>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Asiana 4</name>
   <bonus>0</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Ephesus</territory>
      <territory>AI</territory>
      <territory>AII</territory>
      <territory>AIII</territory>
      <territory>AIV (Legion)</territory>
      <territory>AV</territory>
   </components>
   <required>4</required>
   <overrides>
      <override>Asiana 2</override>
   </overrides>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Asiana 6</name>
   <bonus>0</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Ephesus</territory>
      <territory>AI</territory>
      <territory>AII</territory>
      <territory>AIII</territory>
      <territory>AIV (Legion)</territory>
      <territory>AV</territory>
   </components>
   <required>6</required>
   <overrides>
      <override>Asiana 2</override>
      <override>Asiana 4</override>
   </overrides>
</continent>

It's just because those continents don't hold bonus per se. They only work when combined with the respective Vicarious like this

Code: Select all

<continent>
   <name>Vicarious + Asiana 4</name>
   <bonus>2</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Ephesus Vicarious</territory>
      <continent>Asiana 4</continent>
   </components>
   <overrides>
      <override>Vicarious + Asiana 2</override>
   </overrides>
</continent>

and here is when the overrides should be activated (as they are)

the other ones seem redundant. But it's like you said ender, if it's working....

[Oneyed]

great map!

Oneyed

[Kabanellas]

thank you

[Oneyed]

I played this map several times. as I wrote it is great map.

but, could we anyway set up starting positions? in some games any players held Capital of Dioces (or more of them) and any players did not. so I think if anybody from start holds Capital of Diocese he has big advantage - he can deploy 3 to capital and take Vicariuos Seat, what gives him big advantage agints player who must at the first fight for Capital of Diocese.

and it was also common that player who helds Capital of Diocese helds another region of Dioces, too. so if he in the first round deploy 3 to Capital of Diocese and take Vicarious Seat, it is realy huge advantage to have 4 for deploy and 1 auto in Vicarious Seat.

Oneyed

[Dukasaur]

It's rare to start without at least one Capital. Depending on the number of players, usually everybody has at least one. But even when I don't have one, I find I can win by taking a Legion first.

I'd hate to see this beautiful map ruined with starting positions.

[Oneyed]

It's rare to start without at least one Capital. Depending on the number of players, usually everybody has at least one. But even when I don't have one, I find I can win by taking a Legion first.

it is unfortunately not so rare. I saw this 3 times.

I'd hate to see this beautiful map ruined with starting positions.

I did not mean starting positions. I mean only if it is not possible to code that 8 Capitals will be starting positions (so each player will hold one) and the rest of map will be sorted as it is now.

Oneyed

[chapcrap]

It's rare to start without at least one Capital. Depending on the number of players, usually everybody has at least one. But even when I don't have one, I find I can win by taking a Legion first.

I'd hate to see this beautiful map ruined with starting positions.

I don't think he means starting positions like Feudal War. He means distribute the capitals evenly. That's done through starting positions in the XML. I don't think the gameplay would change in any way, it would just make the drop more even every time.

[Oneyed]

It's rare to start without at least one Capital. Depending on the number of players, usually everybody has at least one. But even when I don't have one, I find I can win by taking a Legion first.

I'd hate to see this beautiful map ruined with starting positions.

I don't think he means starting positions like Feudal War. He means distribute the capitals evenly. That's done through starting positions in the XML. I don't think the gameplay would change in any way, it would just make the drop more even every time.

Yes. something as is done in Third Crusade map - each player has Capital/Starting point and the rest of region are distributed random.

Oneyed

[DoomYoshi]

DII and ITII don't look like they connect at first glance.

[Oneyed]

I must again call for make capitals of dioceses as starting points like in the third crusade map. they do not need to start with 6 units, just distribute them so that each player will has the same number of them. or make them as 2 neutrals from start.

look on this map.
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=11955507

Oneyed

[koontz1973]

I must again call for make capitals of dioceses as starting points like in the third crusade map. they do not need to start with 6 units, just distribute them so that each player will has the same number of them. or make them as 2 neutrals from start.

look on this map.
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=11955507

Oneyed

Cannot as the game is fog.

[nothinghappens]

What is an Imperial seat? It looks like the map has huge potential but I was struggling to work out how to spawn troops or one way assault capitals and barbarian tribes. Please explain, better.

[ender516]

There are basically two types of troop locations on this game map: the land-based territories and the Roman Government seats in the box at the upper right. The legend at the lower left explains how you cross back and forth between these. The Imperial seats are at the top of the government hierarchy, with labels matching the labels on the Imperial capitals, Roma and Constantinopolis.

[Ika Pakao]

I would like to propose a change of starting positions regarding the capitals. In status quo the capitals are distributed randomly. This can induce huge imbalances considering the initial drop, especially in 1v1 games.

ie. In this game green had 2 capitols, red had 6 capitals and 6 capitals were neutral. The game was decided in a couple of turns, if not upon the drop.



Here is what I suggest. Since Rome is always 1 neutral, I think the other 14 capitals should be divided by the number of players and distributed evenly among them with the remaining capitals starting with 1 neutral army each

The distribution should look like this:



The only downside is that games with 5 and 8 players, will have 4 and 6 neutral capitals respectively. However such situations would be avoided in all other match-ups.

The bottom line is that players would get same number of capitals, which would make drops fair and square; and if there are neutral capitals, they would be easily conquerable with only 1 neutral guarding them.

I hope you will find this motion reasonable and acceptable.