SIEGE! - PSD available - [Quenched]

[Iliad]

How about defender's die on the wall get a bonus(+1 for example).

[Evil Pope]

Considering that, by holding the great hall, there is no effort to defending the throne, I think that the thrones bonus should be a 1, maybe. Its hard to see where the passage and the hall meet, also..
And the lighting in the tunnel likes kinda bad.. maybe it could be a bit moe.. subtle.. Maybe you could blend it a little..

I think the areas around the castle are very unbalanced.. you could probably add natural barriers to make certain areas easier to hold.

As for the outside textures, I don't think they're terrible.. You could probably make the plain's texture look.. I don't know how to put it.. smaller?.. Further away.. and the trees a bit closer.. then they'll look like they're on a relatively similar scale. The texture of the swamps is all wrong, in my oppinion.. it seems out of place..
and the transition between areas aren't terrible.. but they're a bit rough. I don't know how you would improve them though.

[MarVal]

I like the concept, but the graphics I agree with Evil Pope.
Keep up the good job!

Grtz
Marval

[mibi]

new textures...

also im not sure the outside areas are so imbalanced. they may be difficult to hold in 6 player, but shouldnt be too hard in doubles or triples.

[Guiscard]

New graphics are a great improvement.

Couple of ideas, though:

I love the trees but I think it would look better if you erased the borders where the trees cross them. You may have to fiddle around a bit so there are fewer trees crossing the borders themselves (so none are completely erased) but it would make them look more 3D.

Also, with the throne the corners could get a bit confusing: can the south throne territory attack the northernmost great hall? (I'm assuming not, but people get confused by borders meeting at a point).

[Bad Speler]

Im not sure if its just me, but the straight borders at the bottom of the map makes it look bad

[mibi]

ok i erased some of those borders... im not sure, it maight be too confusing for those with less brain power. i also added a 5 territory to the great hall making it harder to take

[Guiscard]

Those trees look great now.

[luckiekevin]

Keep up the good work!!! This is looking great so far.

dim - sorry for not seeing your first post about trebuchet attacks

[mibi]

ok i added the numbers, while it would just be numbers in the image the xml would have names so it would look like "Player attacked West Ward 1 from Outer Wall 1..."

but i was thinking some areas really dont need numbers if we just use our heads. for example the thrown and lose the numbers and it can be assumbed that the top is Northern Throne and the bottom Southern Throne. Also West Outer Wall and East Outer Wall can be assumed. And since there is only 1 gate, the gate can just be Gate instead of Gate 1. I suppose the Great Hall could be South West Great Hall, South Great Hall South East Great Hall, North East Great Hall, and North West Great Hall.

i dont think people would get too confused... thoughts?

[luckiekevin]

I wouldn't have a problem with you taking the numbers away from the places you mentioned but am almost positive that a handful of people are going to want them put in for consistency. If for any reason, every map has a label that corresponds with the country. Or at least I think they do.

[Marvaddin]

I really dislike this idea until now.

Beyond the lack of appeal Im feeling, the playability looks simply terrible. Almost all "continents" have all their territories as border ones, it just doesnt happen to the Tunnel (which is completely linear), and to Forest and Plains. All other continents have all territories in their borders. Look, for example, how is difficult to expand from the throne, the castle is simply wasted: except for the throne, the gate and the outer wall, all continents are useless (even these ones are only holdable due to tiny number of territories).

In fact, the visual is also not good. For the external lands, just the forest has good textures. The swamp doesnt seem a swamp, and the plains looks like a desert. But much worse is the castle. It looks like a hat. What castle would use a stupid design like that? Plus, where are the towers? Where are the siege machines (catapults, siege towers, etc)? Graphics are not helping the appeal.

Anyway, do this seem a siege to you? For a siege, I would think:
- castle is weaker than the surrounding lands (but I dont know if this is happening, because the castle have the small bonuses, like 2 armies for the throne, 2 territories, and the gate, that you can start with; only the forest seems a threat after you get the castle, assuming its possible).
- castle should be easier to defend; but, at other hand, should give almost no troop bonus, due to the siege.

So, I think the castle should make possible an easier expansion from the throne (possibly), instead of being a no man land, but giving smaller bonuses. The surrounding lands would need some more well designed continents, to make sure someone could acumulate troops out of the castle too... Maybe we could have a camp in SE and another one in SW.

Instead of the small bridges, you could add catapults. So from more distant territories, invaders could attack the wall. Plus, the castle would have as exits just the gate and the tunnel (that of course is related to the castle), because its under siege.

Some ideas you can think about

[mibi]

I really dislike this idea until now.

Beyond the lack of appeal Im feeling, the playability looks simply terrible. Almost all "continents" have all their territories as border ones, it just doesnt happen to the Tunnel (which is completely linear), and to Forest and Plains. All other continents have all territories in their borders. Look, for example, how is difficult to expand from the throne, the castle is simply wasted: except for the throne, the gate and the outer wall, all continents are useless (even these ones are only holdable due to tiny number of territories).

im not sure what your talking about, the only continents surrounded on all borders is the gate, and throne. I think there is good playability, i couldn't quite understand the 'exapnd from the throne' comment. are you saying it is difficult, or it isnt.

In fact, the visual is also not good. For the external lands, just the forest has good textures. The swamp doesnt seem a swamp, and the plains looks like a desert. But much worse is the castle. It looks like a hat. What castle would use a stupid design like that? Plus, where are the towers? Where are the siege machines (catapults, siege towers, etc)? Graphics are not helping the appeal.

yeah, i'll just build a castle in my backyard and cultivate a prairie, swamp and forest, so i can take some pictures and then the map will be photorealistic enough for CC. And its not a castle, its a castle-type. If it were a castle i'd put catapults and seige towers and wizards and maidens dangling their hair from a high window, and whatever else you think belongs in a castle. but its not castle, its a castle-lite. judging from your own Triassic map i'll largely ingore your graphic sensibilities.

Anyway, do this seem a siege to you? For a siege, I would think:
- castle is weaker than the surrounding lands (but I dont know if this is happening, because the castle have the small bonuses, like 2 armies for the throne, 2 territories, and the gate, that you can start with; only the forest seems a threat after you get the castle, assuming its possible).
- castle should be easier to defend; but, at other hand, should give almost no troop bonus, due to the siege.

i dont think the castle is weaker than the surrounding lands at all. the gate and throne are the easiest bonuses to get. once you have the throne, the great hall shouldnt be too hard. and the outer wall are only 1 territory per side, and only attackable from 2 territories on the outside, while they can attack 6 +gate.

on the outside, the forrest is the only bonus thats relatively easy to get. so i think its pretty balanced.

So, I think the castle should make possible an easier expansion from the throne (possibly), instead of being a no man land, but giving smaller bonuses. The surrounding lands would need some more well designed continents, to make sure someone could acumulate troops out of the castle too... Maybe we could have a camp in SE and another one in SW.

yes i was thinking of the camp idea, it may happen.

Instead of the small bridges, you could add catapults. So from more distant territories, invaders could attack the wall. Plus, the castle would have as exits just the gate and the tunnel (that of course is related to the castle), because its under siege.

a catapult would be a good idea if it didnt allow for the dumping of armies inside the castle, which is exactly what would happen.

Some ideas you can think about

thanks, the graphics are fine in my opinion, the plability may need some tweaking tho.

[mibi]

Ok so now there are stairs. The walls can only be attack via the stairs or the small bridges. The walls can attack via the stairs bridges or where noted with arrows. This gives the two wards some cover and should be easier to hold. this also makes the great hall much easier to hold now that it can only be attacked from two areas, assuming you've taken the throne first. thoughts?

[Gozar]

I think that makes the bonus on the hall + throne too much. They will most certainly be taken together.

I think the swamp will be too hard to hold. All its territories are borders.

Love the stairs!

Gozar

[oaktown]

again, much improved since last i looked... nice work. I agree with widow that throne/great hall might be best as one bonus - as a two territory bonus, it's way too likely that somebody will start with the throne.

And I still like the idea of a one-way tunnel, to keep the action out on the walls where it should be.

[for dummies]

the swamp would be way to hard to hold. cut back on its borders somehow

[Marvaddin]

im not sure what your talking about, the only continents surrounded on all borders is the gate, and throne. I think there is good playability, i couldn't quite understand the 'exapnd from the throne' comment. are you saying it is difficult, or it isnt.

Really? I would like if you could tell me what territories of the Great hall (and Inner Wall, and East Ward, and Outer Wall, Midlands and Swamp) are non borders ones... And the comment obviously said it was difficult to expand (ok, its easier with the stairs). Anyway, good playability??

yeah, i'll just build a castle in my backyard and cultivate a prairie, swamp and forest, so i can take some pictures and then the map will be photorealistic enough for CC. And its not a castle, its a castle-type. If it were a castle i'd put catapults and seige towers and wizards and maidens dangling their hair from a high window, and whatever else you think belongs in a castle. but its not castle, its a castle-lite. judging from your own Triassic map i'll largely ingore your graphic sensibilities.

Feeling bad, darling? Haha, if you cant do it better, you can just admit it, I have no use for your jokes. Sure, I have limited graphics skills, but looks like you also have the same problem... Any comments to my map, use the proper thread, baby (although I dont understand whats so difficult about look for better textures)

i dont think the castle is weaker than the surrounding lands at all. the gate and throne are the easiest bonuses to get. once you have the throne, the great hall shouldnt be too hard. and the outer wall are only 1 territory per side, and only attackable from 2 territories on the outside, while they can attack 6 +gate.
on the outside, the forrest is the only bonus thats relatively easy to get. so i think its pretty balanced.

Read again what you just wrote and feel the lack of balance. I was not saying the castle was too weak, because I see the easy bonuses. But who would siege a castle that is stronger than the invaders? In a normal siege, the castle would be weaker than the invaders, dont you agree? I think the castle having 7 bonuses, some of them very easy, while the outside has 5 bonuses (including the tunnel, but this one should be counted for the castle), and most of them difficult, its no good. Now, the castle is even more stronger, with the stairs. How about redesign the map adding more territories to outside, and with a smaller castle?

a catapult would be a good idea if it didnt allow for the dumping of armies inside the castle, which is exactly what would happen.

I still think we could have a easy to take and defend castle, but hard to expand. And the catapults could be an interesting idea to attack the walls... Offensive catapults only, I was suggesting... Or we can think about archers too.

[mibi]

ok the forest has one les territory now. also the throne bonus has been reduced, but an added bonus for holding the throne and all the walls. i like it. maybe it should be six tho

[Guiscard]

Visuals are shaping up well... ignore Marv on that one (and not to be underhand but you are right about the triassic map... I don't think it has a patch on this one)...I love the textures of the castle!

As for playability, he's usually prertty on point so I'd pay attention to his comments in that regard.

Just a couple of thoughts... Just putting it out there for consideration but what if the tunnel was one way between swamp 4 and tunnel 5 (swamp>tunnel). This would eliminate a border for the swamp (which is all borders at the moment) but the tunnel would still be holdable by anyone, plus it would be a bit more realisitc. Tunnels are dug under castle walls to attack, not defend.

[DiM]

i love the idea but i hate the implementation. eventhough the graphics are getting better and better and the gameplay is begining to be improved also, i still hate the fact that this does not inspire a siege at all.

the castle design is horrible. i've never seen a castle with the form of a semi circle. i've never seen a castle without towers. and who told you a castle is made by a throne a yard and some walls? the castle should be the heart and soul of this map. it should get the respect it deserves.

[mibi]

ok some big changes... there is now a camp continent with a small bonus but a greater bonus when paired with the gate. this should strengthen the outer areas as well as put some incentive to siege the gate.

for those complaining that this doesnt look like a castle your right, but its not a castle. its castle like. however i will take the word castle out of the topic. its meant to be a defensible compound, similar to Helms Deep if your familiar with that.

[Guiscard]

That.s fine. I don't think the visuals are that bad at all really. The helm's deep analogy should help a lot of people visualise it better. It was what i was thinking of from the start...

There's probably still room for a siege map of a different kind on the site as well to be honest.

New cont is good by the way.

[mibi]

Just a couple of thoughts... Just putting it out there for consideration but what if the tunnel was one way between swamp 4 and tunnel 5 (swamp>tunnel). This would eliminate a border for the swamp (which is all borders at the moment) but the tunnel would still be holdable by anyone, plus it would be a bit more realisitc. Tunnels are dug under castle walls to attack, not defend.

the only problem with this is that everyone who starts in the tunnel would have to dump out intot he great hall, which might be interesting but would certainly make the great hall and throne less defendable.

[Gozar]

How about just some turret/tower graphics on the walls?