Conquer Club

kmhebert wrote:NO! I guess I will have to wait until next Christmas to play this again. Any chance of it coming into a rotation more than once a year?

Any chance of December 25 coming more than once a year?

jonofperu wrote:1. There is no indication that the gifts under the tree have +1 autodeploy (already mentioned)
2. If a territory is said to border another does that not imply that it works vice versa? (I guess not) Wouldn't it be better to say that the gifts under the tree one-way attack gifts on the tree rather than "borders a smaller gift hanging up"
3. Does window 25 reset to 25 neutral at the end of your turn, or at the beginning of your next turn? "After being occupied sounds to me like immediately after your turn ends, but I don't know if the XML would even allow that, so maybe its a non-issue.

It's been a long time, but from memory...

1) you cannot "capture" the gifts under the tree; you only get the ones you receive at the start. From that point of view it's kind of trivial, and there's no point taking up space on the map with information that every player should be able to work out on their first turn in any case.

2) The arrows on the map only point in a single direction, to help emphasise that they are one-way attacks.

3) Nobodies already answered this.

PS. Happy Christmas!

PPS. Yes, I know it's April.

Maybe this affects other maps, but the combination of killer/reset neutrals and victory conditions really confused me. I studied the map when I started playing it and could have sworn I found games where the end-game order was 1. Victory Conditions, 2. Killer Neutrals, etc. Now I'm wondering if I was looking at another map and the order works differently on different maps? Probably I just mis-read something.

The issue is that Polaris is a star. Theoretically it should count as one of the 5 stars you can hold for the victory condition. In fact, BOB reads it as one of the stars and shows a person with Polaris +4 other stars as having the victory conditions.
So in a tournament game I'm playing I allowed another player to hold the objective thinking he would win (and give me 2nd place in the game for points). However, Polaris reset first on his turn and it didn't count for victory.

Is this a standard order of calculating end-game? I don't even know if it would affect other maps. I feel like complaining to BOB though, since it helped to reinforce my delusion.

jonofperu wrote:The issue is that Polaris is a star. Theoretically it should count as one of the 5 stars you can hold for the victory condition. In fact, BOB reads it as one of the stars and shows a person with Polaris +4 other stars as having the victory conditions.
So in a tournament game I'm playing I allowed another player to hold the objective thinking he would win (and give me 2nd place in the game for points). However, Polaris reset first on his turn and it didn't count for victory.

Is this a standard order of calculating end-game? I don't even know if it would affect other maps. I feel like complaining to BOB though, since it helped to reinforce my delusion.

From the instructions:

Killer Neutrals

Some maps have special neutral territories known as 'killer neutrals', which will reset to neutral at the beginning of the turn of the player who occupies it. Killer neutrals do not reset if they are already neutral.

Victory Conditions / Map Objectives

Some maps have 'victory' objectives, which you must conquer and hold for one round to win the game. If you are holding an objective, you will win the game at the moment you press the "Begin Turn" button

It seems that "the moment you press the "Begin Turn" button" would precede "the beginning of the turn". Either the instructions or the game engine need to be fixed, because I would call this a broken feature as-is.

jonofperu wrote:The issue is that Polaris is a star. Theoretically it should count as one of the 5 stars you can hold for the victory condition. In fact, BOB reads it as one of the stars and shows a person with Polaris +4 other stars as having the victory conditions.

I can't remember how it's coded, but I would've expected Polaris to have counted as one of the 5 stars within the victory condition.

Instructions could be amended to wrote:Victory Conditions / Map Objectives

Some maps have 'victory' objectives, which you must conquer and hold for one round to win the game. If you are holding an objective (and none of the objective territories are also 'killer neutrals'), you will win the game at the moment you press the "Begin Turn" button.

MrBenn wrote:

jonofperu wrote:The issue is that Polaris is a star. Theoretically it should count as one of the 5 stars you can hold for the victory condition. In fact, BOB reads it as one of the stars and shows a person with Polaris +4 other stars as having the victory conditions.

I can't remember how it's coded, but I would've expected Polaris to have counted as one of the 5 stars within the victory condition.

Instructions could be amended to wrote:Victory Conditions / Map Objectives

Some maps have 'victory' objectives, which you must conquer and hold for one round to win the game. If you are holding an objective (and none of the objective territories are also 'killer neutrals'), you will win the game at the moment you press the "Begin Turn" button.

Polaris does not count towards the objective.

That's because Polaris is the Jewish Star and is not part of the Christmas Victory Conditions

Gilligan wrote:

MrBenn wrote:

jonofperu wrote:The issue is that Polaris is a star. Theoretically it should count as one of the 5 stars you can hold for the victory condition. In fact, BOB reads it as one of the stars and shows a person with Polaris +4 other stars as having the victory conditions.

I can't remember how it's coded, but I would've expected Polaris to have counted as one of the 5 stars within the victory condition.

Instructions could be amended to wrote:Victory Conditions / Map Objectives

Some maps have 'victory' objectives, which you must conquer and hold for one round to win the game. If you are holding an objective (and none of the objective territories are also 'killer neutrals'), you will win the game at the moment you press the "Begin Turn" button.

Polaris does not count towards the objective.

Well, then that goes back to jonofperu's original post, and it should be indicated as such on the map.

drunkmonkey wrote:
Well, then that goes back to jonofperu's original post, and it should be indicated as such on the map.

I agree. Referring to holding "any" five is clearly misleading.

Instead of changing the wording, you could change the pictures - so polaris could be changed to a fairy, or the other stars could be changed to bells.

Also:

MrBenn wrote:

jonofperu wrote:1. There is no indication that the gifts under the tree have +1 autodeploy (already mentioned)
2. If a territory is said to border another does that not imply that it works vice versa? (I guess not) Wouldn't it be better to say that the gifts under the tree one-way attack gifts on the tree rather than "borders a smaller gift hanging up"
3. Does window 25 reset to 25 neutral at the end of your turn, or at the beginning of your next turn? "After being occupied sounds to me like immediately after your turn ends, but I don't know if the XML would even allow that, so maybe its a non-issue.

It's been a long time, but from memory...

1) you cannot "capture" the gifts under the tree; you only get the ones you receive at the start. From that point of view it's kind of trivial, and there's no point taking up space on the map with information that every player should be able to work out on their first turn in any case.

2) The arrows on the map only point in a single direction, to help emphasise that they are one-way attacks.

3) Nobodies already answered this.

PS. Happy Christmas!

PPS. Yes, I know it's April.

*It wasn't until round 7 of my first game when I reached someone else's gift that I realised I couldn't attack their main gift. It would be simple enough to change "borders" to "one-way attacks", to make it clear.

*While I accept killer neutrals is explained in the main game rules, would it hurt to change that rule to: "Window 25 can bombard all other windows and will reset to 25 neutrals as your next turn begins" - which fits in the same space?


Also - and the thing that brought me to this discussion - is it written in any rules anywhere explaining that in trench games you can conquer and carry on attacking from a neutral? Luckily I've had a look at some other trench games as I thought I'd only be able to win by capturing five stars.

ColinM wrote:

drunkmonkey wrote:
Well, then that goes back to jonofperu's original post, and it should be indicated as such on the map.

I agree. Referring to holding "any" five is clearly misleading.

Instead of changing the wording, you could change the pictures - so polaris could be changed to a fairy, or the other stars could be changed to bells.

Also:

MrBenn wrote:

jonofperu wrote:1. There is no indication that the gifts under the tree have +1 autodeploy (already mentioned)
2. If a territory is said to border another does that not imply that it works vice versa? (I guess not) Wouldn't it be better to say that the gifts under the tree one-way attack gifts on the tree rather than "borders a smaller gift hanging up"
3. Does window 25 reset to 25 neutral at the end of your turn, or at the beginning of your next turn? "After being occupied sounds to me like immediately after your turn ends, but I don't know if the XML would even allow that, so maybe its a non-issue.

It's been a long time, but from memory...

1) you cannot "capture" the gifts under the tree; you only get the ones you receive at the start. From that point of view it's kind of trivial, and there's no point taking up space on the map with information that every player should be able to work out on their first turn in any case.

2) The arrows on the map only point in a single direction, to help emphasise that they are one-way attacks.

3) Nobodies already answered this.

PS. Happy Christmas!

PPS. Yes, I know it's April.

*It wasn't until round 7 of my first game when I reached someone else's gift that I realised I couldn't attack their main gift. It would be simple enough to change "borders" to "one-way attacks", to make it clear.

*While I accept killer neutrals is explained in the main game rules, would it hurt to change that rule to: "Window 25 can bombard all other windows and will reset to 25 neutrals as your next turn begins" - which fits in the same space?


Also - and the thing that brought me to this discussion - is it written in any rules anywhere explaining that in trench games you can conquer and carry on attacking from a neutral? Luckily I've had a look at some other trench games as I thought I'd only be able to win by capturing five stars.

1) there are one-way arrows on top of the gifts.
2) it does say it will reset? seems clear enough.
3) it is explained in the general rules that you can attack through killer neutrals in trench games.

Gilligan wrote:
1) there are one-way arrows on top of the gifts.
2) it does say it will reset? seems clear enough.
3) it is explained in the general rules that you can attack through killer neutrals in trench games.

1) Yes, but it's easy to believe the arrows are there to help you find the gift on the tree - they are colour coded and pointing in different directions. They certainly do have the function I just mentioned, so no-one should automatically assume they have a second function which could easily have been clarified in the notes.
2) It does say it resets - but it says it does so "after being occupied", which I and others have taken to mean at the end of your turn. The re-write of this that I suggested takes up no extra space and makes clear when it resets.
3) Yes, I missed that. Thank you.

I just came here to post a couple of obvious errors in the descriptions on the map, but now see that people are well aware of the problems. You shouldn't have to install BOB or go to the discussion topic to figure out how a map works. I realize that we've stopped developing maps behind the scenes, and there are more controls in place now, but this map has serious issues.

Necropost!

or something.

so uh, is there a reason that Vale has Altair for free? he's the only one who can actually get that, and he can keep those territories easily and get an advantage on everyone else. it just doesn't seem that fair.