Tribal War - Ancient Israel v16.1 [2014-05-22] pg23 Quenched

[koontz1973]

Here you go Seamus. Good luck in the main foundry.

[Seamus76]

Here you go Seamus. Good luck in the main foundry.

Thanks so much. I should have all of the text updated in the next day or two.

[Seamus76]

CURRENT UPDATE INFO-2012-11-011:
- Updated the territories to the all capital letter look.
- Threw in a couple more mountains to fill in some spots.

Thoughts on:
- Bonus values.
- Adding more warriors to the War Zones. This would entail placing them over the "War Zone" text, which I avoided on Tribal War - Florida, and have so far done the same on this one.

CURRENT MAP VERSION:

v4.2 - Large (840x800)

Click image to enlarge.

[koontz1973]

Seamus, text looks good to me on the map. What about the legend?
No more warriors in th war zone for sure.
Dead sea, I still think this needs only one territ but if you do keep the two, I suggest a slight change to the layout of the map.
Move Dibbon border south to the point of the dead sea just above the sea in cross (text).
Move the border of the dea up so Dead Sea 2 can attack dibbon.
Remove the bridge between Dibbon and Mt Nebo.
Remove a few mountains between Mt Nebo and Heshbon (not needed).

This would give dead sea two some relevance as it does not give any benefit to the game now.

Dead sea text (resets to neutral if held.)
For he war zones, try to give some cover to the bordering bonus regions by placing an impassable next to them. Naarath, continue the mountains up so that territ cannot be attacked.

[Seamus76]

CURRENT UPDATE INFO-2012-11-011:
- Updated Reuben to see what it would look like based on Koontz thoughts. I think it works pretty well.
- Added more mountains to Naarath.

Need to do:
- Fix borders, some are black others a dark grey.
- Finish adding drop shadows to all icons.

Thoughts on:
- Bonus values.
- Should Hebron be the tert to attack both Dead Sea 1 and 2 or leave it how it is now.

CURRENT MAP VERSION:
v5.0 - Large (840x800)

Click image to enlarge.

[koontz1973]

Call me biased Seamus, but I do think that makes Dead Sea 2 a lot more relevant. I don't think you need the swords in the sea. I take it it is a two way border?

How do the bonuses stack up compared to the finished Tribal war map?

[Seamus76]

Call me biased Seamus, but I do think that makes Dead Sea 2 a lot more relevant. I don't think you need the swords in the sea. I take it it is a two way border?

How do the bonuses stack up compared to the finished Tribal war map?

I like it better too. Is it better to keep the bridge out of Reuben, or move it to Dibon and Heshbon?

That dead sea is a two way border. I like the swords to make sure there is no confusion to players, but it's also reminiscent of the Florida maps fort and conquistador area.

I really didn't do much calculating for the bonuses. I know rimmon should probably go up to +2, but other than that I was just ballparking them.

[koontz1973]

That dead sea is a two way border. I like the swords to make sure there is no confusion to players, but it's also reminiscent of the Florida maps fort and conquistador area.

I really didn't do much calculating for the bonuses. I know rimmon should probably go up to +2, but other than that I was just ballparking them.

Keep the swords then.

I only say look at Florida as that is the only other map we have with such territs (war zones). That should give you an idea if what you ball parked is correct. To me Reuben seems too high. It does have a lot of territs and can be attacked by a lot, but it has no war zone next to it. So that could be moved down a tad, to say a +2. Same for Nepthali. Zubulon can go +2 because it has the war zone or even a +2 auto deploy. But that is a guess.

[generalhead]

It might look better if your +1 auto deployed was centered with the text above and move Capitals +2 for every three to the right a hare (I know this is petty stuff, but I thought it might help). I don't know if you were trying to get the maps to have the same feel. If you flip between the two (have them open on two different pages and flip back and forth) This map has a lot brighter glow to it than Tribal war-Florida. If this is a series It would be nice to have them as close as possible to the same. The only other thing I see right now is you have a dream catcher in you Tribal war-Florida map and don't have anything like that here. I don't know if you can do something like that with the star of David (not that you have any room). Looking good my friend, can't wait to try this in Beta.

[Seamus76]

CURRENT UPDATE INFO - 2012-11-013:
- Went through and redid all of the region borders.
- Touched up all of the mountains, which I will still be working on.
- Added one more tert to the Western War Zone.
- Redid the text in all caps.
- Added drop shadow to the tribe symbols in the legend.
- Updated a couple of the bonus values, which I think look pretty good, but want some other thoughts.

Need to do:
- Finish adding drop shadows to all icons.

Thoughts on:
- Bonus values.
- Should Hebron be the tert to attack both Dead Sea 1 and 2 or leave it how it is now.
- Should a bridge be added from Dibon to Heshbon, since there used to be a bridge from Dibon to Mt Nebo.
- My colors kind of suck for the color blind test, but each territory has an identifying symbol, will that be enough to keep me from having to change the colors? Someone with color deficiency should be able to easily determine which region is which based on those symbols.

CURRENT MAP VERSION:

v5.1 - Large (840x800)

Click image to enlarge.

[nolefan5311]

There is not a chief bonus, like in Florida, right? Just straight geographic continents? If so, you may be better off doing a mini map. I am color blind, and the only way I can tell the bonuses are by the symbols you have. The symbols are really cool, and it's consistent with Tribal War Florida, but for clarity sake it may be better to do a mini map.

[BluU]

Great progress since I last visited the thread
Great Job

Some suggestions:

Map accuracy suggestions:
Jerusalem is located Geographically on the tribe of Benjamin.
It wasn’t the capital of the tribe of Judah, Hebron was (which is a city of refuge, so we have duality here)
Jerusalem was the nation capital of David and Salomon
However after Solomon death when Israel split into two kingdoms, Israel and Judah. Jerusalem became the capital of the kingdom of Judah, which included some of the area that was Originally on the tribe of Benjamin.

Some suggestion for terit name and alignment change:
Mt Tabor -> Hamat
Naarath -> Bethel
Jordan -> Beth Shan
Tabor -> Jezreel
Baalath - Altaka
Gath -> Jerusalem
Hadesha –> Gat
Libnah -> Hebron
Jerusalem + Masada -> Kumeran (Sorry can’t find two cities in that area and even Kumeran is a much much later settlement.
Hebron -> En Gedi
En Gedi + Kerioth. -> Switch to east west alignment. Mesada will be on dead Sea + Arad will border Simeon
(Anyway, massada is due south from En Gedi)
Kinah -> Tzoar
Change Ziklag and Beer Sheba alignment to north and south where Ziklag is north of Beer Sheba
Change the alignemnet between Dibon and Aroer so the border will run from NE to SW. And let Dibon border Bezer.
I couldn’t validate some of the other terists, will be glad if you can send me the source you used.
The above will shift some capitals. I hope it doesn’t hurt your gameplay.

Game Play comments
Out of 16 Judah terits, Only Hadesha is not bordering a NON-Judah terit (My suggestions above, if accepted will lower that number). so 6 is a way too low bonus.
Zebulun has only one terit and yields bonus of 2. If it doesn’t start neutral that is a huge advantage.
Benjamin Bonus seems too high to me

Graphic comments.
Can you please add where the armies will be displayed in the terits.
Please add to how many naturals dead Sea resets too. (Kinda related to my comment above as it removes 2 terits from the border list)

[silversun6]

Hey all , somehow my comment was deleted..
anyhow , again , im new to this , so feel free to ignore it altogether

1- War zones , you might want to write the "eastern and western war zones" in the background with bigger writings , this way you will have more space to write the cities names.
2- im not sure i understand the bonuses with the cities , first row - is it just the schechem and golan with auto deploy?
second row sw and ss , the +2 is also auto deploy or bonus for each of the 4 territories ?
and the last row - the capitals are only from the tribe capital list? if yes maybe its better to write it inside the top box , when the capitals are listed.

3- much more radical , and probably not possible, but anyhow - maybe you should consider adding some bombarding points on the map?


anyway , great work
Silver (from the Holy Land )

[nolefan5311]

And just for the record, I will post suggested bonus values after a little more time studying, but BluU seems to be on the right path for most of his suggestions.

[DoomYoshi]

The new dead sea layout is better. Were there any bridges across the Jordan river? The map would infinitely open up if the two War Zones were only 1-2 territories removed from each other instead of the current 4.

[Seamus76]

CURRENT UPDATE INFO - 2012-11-15:
- I think I made 90% of the changes BluU recommended. Thank you so much for your time. There were a couple I went in another direction with, such as adding Elon instead of Kerioth. And keeping Mt Tabor, which although it is not a city was in that area and helps reinforce the geographical mountain ranges.
- Added a bridge from Dibon to Heshbon, to give players a way around having to go though the neutral 3.
- Redid the order of the text in the middle legend, which I think breaks it out a little better. (Based on silversun's comment.)
- Added a few of the colored 888's. Will continue to fill in the rest but wanted to get this version up for review.
- Added neutrals to terts that will start neutral.

Need to do:
- Finish adding drop shadows to all icons.
- Finish adding the rest of the colored 888's.

Thoughts on:
- My colors kind of suck for the color blind test, but each territory has an identifying symbol, will that be enough to keep me from having to change the colors? Someone with color deficiency should be able to easily determine which region is which based on those symbols. - This was actually indirectly confirmed by Nolefan to be the case. Not that that means anything.

CURRENT MAP VERSION:

v6.0 - Large (840x800)

Click image to enlarge.

[koontz1973]

Seamus, the colours need to be CB friendly. When you place your colours on the board, try to go dark light dark again. This helps with the CB test. Also, go to the CB filters in GIMP and turn them on. You can then play around with the colours. I am not a fan of the mini map for this map as it was not on TW-Florida. On the right, you have 2 strong colours next to each other with a softer colour for the war zone. Another way that might help would be to darken some of the bonus zones 3 different shades of dark.

[Seamus76]

Hope all our players in Israel are ok.

[Seamus76]

CURRENT UPDATE INFO - 2012-11-18:
[spoiler]-
- Redid a couple of the colors to help with the colorblind versions, but I think they still need a little work. I would like more gameplay and bonus feedback at the moment, rather than graphics stuff, but I don't mind that either I just want to get all of the gameplay hammered out sooner than later.
- Finished adding all of the colored 888's.
- Added neutrals to terts that will start neutral.
- Added a bridge from Ijon to Hazor to keep that corner from being blocked in by the river and neutral tert.

Need to do:
- Finish adding drop shadows to all icons.
- Finalize colors and post colorblind versions.

CURRENT MAP VERSION:

v7.0 - Large (840x800)

Click image to enlarge.

[koontz1973]

Asher +2 as it is in the corner
Nephtali is good
Zebulun +1
Issachar +2
Ephram +3
Dan +2
Benjamin +1
Judah is good
Simeon +3
Gad +6
Reuben +3

But I am not bonus expert so you need to wait for the others. As for the layout, I would add a bridge between Gaza and Raphia. Also, have that river branch of to the south and block all of Sharuhen from Judah.

[Seamus76]

I like the bridge in Gaza. Let me look at adding the river and see how it feels.

Nolefan should be providing some thoughts on bonuses, but one thing I can say based on the last map is that Zebulun should be +2. We had a pretty good discussion back then about a tert like that (Miccosukee) needing to at least be the same as a sword or sling shot (bow and tomahawk), or it would be unlikely that a player would take it.

[Seamus76]

CURRENT UPDATE INFO - 2012-11-19:
- Added the bridge at Gaza
- Branched the southern river so that Sharuhen is blocked more. I did leave it open to Mt Halak instead of closing it off from Judah completely. Let me know some thoughts and if it's better to extend the river more. (Also, extension isn't really geographically accurate. I know this is more about game play, but to be accurate there could be an extension coming down between Sharuhen and Hezron, cutting them off from each other, but I'm not sure what that adds.)

Need to do:
- Finish adding drop shadows to all icons.
- Finalize colors and post colorblind versions.

CURRENT MAP VERSION:

v8.0 - Large (840x800)

Click image to enlarge.

[koontz1973]

I think that works really well. It not really to stop it being attacked, but more to cut of the attacks from it. How would you feel about doing the same for Ziklag?

[Seamus76]

CURRENT UPDATE INFO - 2012-11-19:
- Added the bridge at Gaza
- Branched the southern river so that Sharuhen is blocked more. I did leave it open to Mt Halak instead of closing it off from Judah completely. Let me know some thoughts and if it's better to extend the river more. (Also, extension isn't really geographically accurate. I know this is more about game play, but to be accurate there could be an extension coming down between Sharuhen and Hezron, cutting them off from each other, but I'm not sure what that adds.)
-Branched the river Northeast to block Zilag. I'm not sure how I feel about this yet, as it seems a pretty far deviation from the natural geography. I would ask that BluU or Silversun take a look and let us know there thoughts, but I went ahead and put it together for this version. I'm not sure if mountains were a bigger part of that location, but that might be a possibility instead of the river.

Need to do:
- Finish adding drop shadows to all icons.
- Finalize colors and post colorblind versions.[/spoiler]

CURRENT MAP VERSION:

v8.1 - Large (840x800)

Click image to enlarge.

[Seamus76]

Yeah, I don't really like that river at ziklag, I'll try mountains instead and see how it feels.