WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

[cairnswk]

3 planes should be 2 bonus troops !!!!!

yep. new map sucks

care to expand on why you guys think that

[Keredrex]

got to agree with some people here.. it was great as it was. we mostly played a 2 vs. 2 because of the map just like certain maps lend themselves to certain game types better than others.

but if you are gonna change it Why not continue the scale of bonuses for the planes.
+1 any 2 aircraft, +2 any 3, +3 any 4, etc.
or maybe make every plane a +1 you can always scale other bonuses to reflect this change in the planes

[aspalm]

first reaction:
as predicted (and I am writing this mid-game, so I'm not biased based on win or lose), both teams in a quads game are simply going for AA's. No one is even attempting to take any other bonus- especially the planes. Whoever controls the AA's controls half the board, and there's no way to get a plane bonus without being subject to attack from AA's.

perhaps the changes make it a better board for 1v1, but aren't there plenty of other boards out there? why ruin a great trips/quads board just because it's less than ideal for 1v1. I just don't get it.

I predict once everyone tries the map for a month or two, utilization will plummet.

[Knight2254]

I play this map quite a bit as well and have had great success. As far as imbalanced -- I'm not so sure it is. Sometimes, but not everytime. I'm 16 for 19 with a rating of "equalitarian." If you exclude the 8 player free for all I just finished I'm 16 for 18 in team games so there must be something I do differently than everybody else because certainly I've had more than 2 "bad drops" yet I maintained a 88+% win percentage.

I could get on board with lessening the bonus, but the way you're doing it you are making the AA guns WAY too valuable. Now it's going to be very difficult to get a bonus aside from the AA guns so whoever gets those will simply reinforce those every turn and be able to shoot down enough planes to eliminate the plane bonuses.

If we do anything I think we should reduce the bonuses as suggested previously -- Something like +1 for 2, +2 for 3, +3 for 3. This would allow you, if you did not get the AA bonuses (then you're probably loaded with planes), to have a fighting chance.

Hate to say it... but I told you so.

[seekmeup41]

Ok, I agree that the map needed some revision as it gave first player too much advantage, but this revision have made the planes virtually useless; I am sure others have made the same comment. I suggest a subtle change. If you own X number of the same planes, you get a bonus of:

2 Planes: +1 bonus
3 Planes: +2 bonus
4 planes: +3 bonus
All of same planes: keep bonus as it used to be.

I have played several games of this revision. The upside is that I have never been dropped a bonus of more than 12 so it makes more of a challenge (I was once dropped a bonus of 22 in the previous version). But in only 1 of about 5 games did either player secure a planes bonus (4 of same plane) when the game was still undecided. I say either make another revision or go back to the old version; at least we knew what we were getting into with potential drops of +20 and that has its own unique appeal which can't be found on most other maps.

[Keredrex]

looks to me like most people agree with the last 3 posts... 2 planes +1, 3 Planes +2, etc. etc. can we get a version with this and get some play testing?

[jman10012]

I like the map but its not one of those thrill maps where things get very interesting. Like WW2 Europe.

[Absolute]

The new version of this map blows. I loved Pearl harbor as it was. Although the drop was crucial, it made things interesting. The new rules make it virtually impossible to hold a plane bonus the way the map is laid out. I do not intend on playing this again in its current state.

[king sam]

I haven't played on the new "improved" version, and don't really plan to but for the sake of putting my voice on the list I also look at the changes and feel the power has shifted too much towards gaining and controlling the AA's.

I'm a creature of habit and would tend to say I liked it the way it was, it was a very exciting map to play, and without mapranking myself I can presumably say I held my own on it. I don't feel there was too much of an injustice on the old drop, you could always battle back from it, but I also didn't play 1 vs's 1's on it.

I would say go back to old or take the suggestion of the plane bonuses above, it might help even out the board and the AA involvement.

Good Luck & Nice Job Overall (Love the original)

KS

[natty dread]

The new rules make it virtually impossible to hold a plane bonus the way the map is laid out.

Game 6067569

O rly?

[cairnswk]

The new rules make it virtually impossible to hold a plane bonus the way the map is laid out.

Game 6067569

O rly?

I is witching the dishcusshhion on theseses map....

I sink that eferyone is refereering to the drop of the Vats and kats and spats planes natty

[Steiner75]

After about 250 games on the "old" version and about 20 on the "new" version, I must conclude that the "old" version made for much better gameplay!

The problem of "concentrated" is not really an issue when playing trips or quad games. Yes, it was (and still is not, even with the revisions) a good map for 2 player single or 2 party double games, but there are heaps of other maps around for that kind of play.

As for the suggestions:

2) Preferred Option: go back to the old map!

2) Alternative, if changes required, then I concurr with the above mentioned idea of
2 Planes = 1 bonus
3 Planes = 2 bonus
etc.

Alternatively one could keep the 2 Planes = 3 Bonus, but have the planes start as neutrals with a value of 1.

[the.killing.44]

The new rules make it virtually impossible to hold a plane bonus the way the map is laid out.

Game 6067569

O rly?

I is witching the dishcusshhion on theseses map....

I sink that eferyone is refereering to the drop of the Vats and kats and spats planes natty

Drunk, cairns?

[cairnswk]

The new rules make it virtually impossible to hold a plane bonus the way the map is laid out.

Game 6067569

O rly?

I is witching the dishcusshhion on theseses map....

I sink that eferyone is refereering to the drop of the Vats and kats and spats planes natty

Drunk, cairns?

I was a little when i wrote that,,,so i played on it....

[natty dread]

post deleted.

[Crazy Frog]

My suggestion: Call the older version by the name that it was... and call the New version by a newer name... say "Pearl Harbor "Beta" Advanced" or whatever... and keep both maps for use. That way the ones who want to experiment with their toys can do so and the rest of us can play on as usual. My son and I enjoy playing one on one with the old map and you have it locked away from us.
posting.php?mode=smilies&f=358

[shidarin]

I was very sad when I saw the new version online

[Fresno Fins]

I love playing the Pearl Harbor map and I think the only room for improvement might be to expand it a bit. It seems like this can be a map for a max of 5 players.

[cairnswk]

I love playing the Pearl Harbor map and I think the only room for improvement might be to expand it a bit. It seems like this can be a map for a max of 5 players.

Can you expand on those thoughts more please. Why 5 players. Why shouldn't 8 be allowed to play it.
What sort of expansion have you in mind.
Glad you enjoy playing it though.

[Riazor]

Is there actually any chance of seeing the map changed? I quite loved the map and i'm in the camp of "it shoudlnt have changed". However, i can understand why some people wouldve liked the changes. If there can not be a total revert to the original, at least consider making the plane bonuses stronger again (+1 for 2, +2 for 3 or somethign along those lines)

[cairnswk]

Is there actually any chance of seeing the map changed? I quite loved the map and i'm in the camp of "it shoudlnt have changed". However, i can understand why some people wouldve liked the changes. If there can not be a total revert to the original, at least consider making the plane bonuses stronger again (+1 for 2, +2 for 3 or somethign along those lines)

After a suitable period of time like a couple of months, i will review the situation, and yes if there is general dissent about the current bonus situation, i am quite happy to change it again providing that is OK with powers that be.
My preference would be to change it back to the way it was, since i beleive that the original bonus provided a better scenario of what the map was about.

[roizeau]

I have a question about game play on this map.

How do you capture the aircraft that are not accesible from the AA guns?

And as for the planes that become neutral from AA bombardment, is there any way to actually capture those, or do they stay neutral throughout the game?

Game 6180618

[cairnswk]

I have a question about game play on this map.

How do you capture the aircraft that are not accesible from the AA guns?

And as for the planes that become neutral from AA bombardment, is there any way to actually capture those, or do they stay neutral throughout the game?

Game 6180618

They're captured from whatever target they are firing bullets at such as battelships etc.

[roizeau]

I have a question about game play on this map.

How do you capture the aircraft that are not accesible from the AA guns?

And as for the planes that become neutral from AA bombardment, is there any way to actually capture those, or do they stay neutral throughout the game?

Game 6180618

They're captured from whatever target they are firing bullets at such as battelships etc.

I thought the legend said they were 1 way attacks.
But okay, thanks.

[cairnswk]

I have a question about game play on this map.

How do you capture the aircraft that are not accesible from the AA guns?

And as for the planes that become neutral from AA bombardment, is there any way to actually capture those, or do they stay neutral throughout the game?

Game 6180618

They're captured from whatever target they are firing bullets at such as battelships etc.

I thought the legend said they were 1 way attacks.
But okay, thanks.

No sorry, the one-way blue arrow refers to the the route from Oklahoma to K6 to Oil H