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The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

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Re: The Temple of Jinn [08/12/2013] V9k pg 13

Postby Gilligan on Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:56 pm

dakky21 wrote:What's happening with this map, I really like it and would like to play it ... it remembers me of Arcane Sanctuary in D2 :)


Hopefully soon!
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/01/2014] V9l pg 14

Postby Blakkrose on Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:55 am

Sorry for the long wait.
In recent weeks, the map server has been tested in beta and it seems that everything works fine.
If the guys in the foundry agree it is time to go Live!
Here are the updated files with the circle WG11 moved more to the left so that the troops are on a lighter background.

Here are all the files updated.
Map Image Large version (840x400):
show


Map Image Small version (630x600):
show


These are the 3 color blind tests
show


This is the version with all the neutral troops in the territories (840x800)
show


This is the 88 test - Large version (840x800)
show


This is the 88 test - Small version (630x600)
show


This is the 888 test - Large version (840x800)
show


This is the 888 test - Small version (630x600)
show
Attachments
Temple_of_Jinn.xml
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/01/2014] V9l pg 14

Postby bigWham on Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:53 pm

I have been playing this map on Beta and I think it is fantastic. I do not have any functional issues with it, however the monsters, crystals and temple never really come into play. i think they are too expensive compared to their reward, when compared to the gems. i think this map would have even better game play if they were somewhat cheaper/easier to attain.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/01/2014] V9l pg 14

Postby Blakkrose on Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:16 am

bigWham wrote:I have been playing this map on Beta and I think it is fantastic. I do not have any functional issues with it, however the monsters, crystals and temple never really come into play. i think they are too expensive compared to their reward, when compared to the gems. i think this map would have even better game play if they were somewhat cheaper/easier to attain.

Thanks for the compliments!

Regarding the monsters consider them primarily as a line of defense.
They defend the crucial areas of the map.
  1. the crystal zones useful to interfere with the opponents' play by the bombardment
  2. key prerequisite for accessing the Temple of Jinn
  3. Ghul indispensable to access Crystals
  4. and finally Iblis who defends the only access to the area of the Temple of Jinn
If you prefer I can eliminate the bonuses for the control of the monsters so people will consider them only for their primary function: Defense :D
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/01/2014] V9l pg 14

Postby bigWham on Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:52 am

Blakkrose wrote:
bigWham wrote:I have been playing this map on Beta and I think it is fantastic. I do not have any functional issues with it, however the monsters, crystals and temple never really come into play. i think they are too expensive compared to their reward, when compared to the gems. i think this map would have even better game play if they were somewhat cheaper/easier to attain.

Thanks for the compliments!

Regarding the monsters consider them primarily as a line of defense.
They defend the crucial areas of the map.
  1. the crystal zones useful to interfere with the opponents' play by the bombardment
  2. key prerequisite for accessing the Temple of Jinn
  3. Ghul indispensable to access Crystals
  4. and finally Iblis who defends the only access to the area of the Temple of Jinn
If you prefer I can eliminate the bonuses for the control of the monsters so people will consider them only for their primary function: Defense :D


They are defending things that no one will want because they are too expensive. The key to unlock the temple idea is very cool as well, but it is hard to see anyone doing that except in very rare circumstances. The map would be more fun, and more strategically challenging, if there were multiple strategic options that you had make choices between - right now I believe it is all about collecting gems, and then attacking your opponents directly.

Increasing the bonus value of them probably won't help because it would become suicide to go for them. Hence I think that reducing the neutrals on those terits is the way to go.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/01/2014] V9l pg 14

Postby Blakkrose on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:37 pm

bigWham wrote:
They are defending things that no one will want because they are too expensive. The key to unlock the temple idea is very cool as well, but it is hard to see anyone doing that except in very rare circumstances. The map would be more fun, and more strategically challenging, if there were multiple strategic options that you had make choices between - right now I believe it is all about collecting gems, and then attacking your opponents directly.

Increasing the bonus value of them probably won't help because it would become suicide to go for them. Hence I think that reducing the neutrals on those terits is the way to go.

Does anyone agree with bigWham?
I want my map to be played by many users. I want it to be fun and interesting strategically.
I'm trying to meet the wishes of users, and if you think it is appropriate to reduce monsters troops then I will.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/01/2014] V9l pg 14

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:45 pm

Blakkrose wrote:
bigWham wrote:
They are defending things that no one will want because they are too expensive. The key to unlock the temple idea is very cool as well, but it is hard to see anyone doing that except in very rare circumstances. The map would be more fun, and more strategically challenging, if there were multiple strategic options that you had make choices between - right now I believe it is all about collecting gems, and then attacking your opponents directly.

Increasing the bonus value of them probably won't help because it would become suicide to go for them. Hence I think that reducing the neutrals on those terits is the way to go.

Does anyone agree with bigWham?
I want my map to be played by many users. I want it to be fun and interesting strategically.
I'm trying to meet the wishes of users, and if you think it is appropriate to reduce monsters troops then I will.

I say wait and find out what more of the community thinks once it is released into Beta on the live site.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/01/2014] V9l pg 14

Postby Blakkrose on Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:03 am

isaiah40 wrote:I say wait and find out what more of the community thinks once it is released into Beta on the live site.

I agree.
At this point I look forward to the map is Live to see what happens!
the next step is up to you ... :D
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/01/2014] V9l pg 14

Postby Blakkrose on Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:10 am

Can anyone tell me why the map is not yet Live?
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/01/2014] V9l pg 14

Postby Gilligan on Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:02 am

Blakkrose wrote:Can anyone tell me why the map is not yet Live?


tnb said that you were testing bigwham's post above, with lowering the cost of monsters. :)
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/01/2014] V9l pg 14

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:15 am

Gilligan wrote:
Blakkrose wrote:Can anyone tell me why the map is not yet Live?


tnb said that you were testing bigwham's post above, with lowering the cost of monsters. :)

No need to test that. I can say now that the neutrals are near enough perfect now. Some settings and size of games will give them more play over others but that was taken into account when we looked at the map.

Lets get this into play please so we can see how it works for all settings and sizes, then we can fiddle with the neutrals if needed.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/01/2014] V9l pg 14

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:45 am

Let me finish what i'm doing with blakkrose ;)
There's no rush.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/01/2014] V9l pg 14

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:24 am

After playing and discussing a bit with blakkrose, my personal suggestion, that's not a mandatory thing, is to:

- Consider a way to make the map more playable in 2 players game. Actually i think it shows the usual problem that the first player that grab an advantage with gems (because he starts first or because he is just more lucky with dice) can close the game in few turns without any way for the opponent to do something seriously to stop him. If this is not possible, well exclude games that have less than 4 players and are not polymorphic (not sure we can :-k ).
- Monsters. even if i understand that neutrals are a way to stop a mass bombardment, i think they are too high. If you see we have about 20 neutrals plus decay just to bombard combined with a 5 neutrals ghul that moreover everyone will have on the list due its key role as condition to bombard.
- Again any bonus "Iblis + X monsters = Y" in which X>4 is pretty ridicolous. If you receive it you have already won the game, you don't need those troops. Specially considering how much work is required to have them for Y troops. It's easier to go for gems and obtain exactly the same number of troops but in the meanwhile kill the opponents more frequently than trying to unlock monsters. Maybe it can be a type of bonus that is worth in some extended games, but again, in that case i don't know how much 18 troops can make a difference apart for a really strange combo of game settings.

I would leave ibilis at 10 neutral troops, the 4 colored monsters at the corners changed to 3 or 4 neutrals. Finally ghul can be 3 neutral. alone it gives nothing, everyone need it to access to crystals and it has a 3 decay...it's not a problem if it is easier to take.

That's what i would do if it was my map. Said that it's not that it can't be played as it is now.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/01/2014] V9l pg 14

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:11 pm

One way to combat the lucky rolls at the start might be to change all of the 1n territories to 2n as well. This should slow expansion down just a bit.

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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Blakkrose on Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:38 am

thenobodies80 wrote:- Consider a way to make the map more playable in 2 players game. Actually i think it shows the usual problem that the first player that grab an advantage with gems (because he starts first or because he is just more lucky with dice) can close the game in few turns without any way for the opponent to do something seriously to stop him. If this is not possible, well exclude games that have less than 4 players and are not polymorphic (not sure we can :-k ).

As you wrote, this is a problem that plagues many maps, so I do not think it is a priority to do something.

thenobodies80 wrote:- Monsters. even if i understand that neutrals are a way to stop a mass bombardment, i think they are too high. If you see we have about 20 neutrals plus decay just to bombard combined with a 5 neutrals ghul that moreover everyone will have on the list due its key role as condition to bombard.
- Again any bonus "Iblis + X monsters = Y" in which X>4 is pretty ridicolous. If you receive it you have already won the game, you don't need those troops. Specially considering how much work is required to have them for Y troops. It's easier to go for gems and obtain exactly the same number of troops but in the meanwhile kill the opponents more frequently than trying to unlock monsters. Maybe it can be a type of bonus that is worth in some extended games, but again, in that case i don't know how much 18 troops can make a difference apart for a really strange combo of game settings.

I removed the condition to iblis to take bonuses for monsters.
Now for any combo of monsters, from 2 onwards, there's a bonus.

thenobodies80 wrote:I would leave ibilis at 10 neutral troops, the 4 colored monsters at the corners changed to 3 or 4 neutrals. Finally ghul can be 3 neutral. alone it gives nothing, everyone need it to access to crystals and it has a 3 decay...it's not a problem if it is easier to take.

I touched up the troops of the monsters as follows:
[list=]
[*]Iblis 5
[*]Dai 3
[*]Efreet 3
[*]Marid 3
[*]Djinn 3
[*]Ghul 3
[*]Acolyte 3
[/list]

Here's the new graphics and XML file:
Map Image Large version (840x400):
show


Map Image Small version (630x600):
show


These are the 3 color blind tests
show


This is the version with all the neutral troops in the territories (840x800)
show


This is the 88 test - Large version (840x800)
show


This is the 88 test - Small version (630x600)
show


This is the 888 test - Large version (840x800)
show


This is the 888 test - Small version (630x600)
show
Attachments
Temple_of_Jinn.xml
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Blakkrose on Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:33 am

Gentlemen, it is possible that the modifications have not yet been included on the beta server?
And when the map will be live?
It 'possible that from 19 July 2013, the map is not ready yet? It's been almost seven months!

Thenobodies80 What happened to you?
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:42 am

I have some serious health issues that keeps me away from computers and any stressing activity. Please get in touch with gilligan till I'm fully back....I hope soon. :)
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby MagnusGreeol on Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:07 pm

- All CC related aside, Hope all will be good with You Thenobodies, Your dedication to Your duties can never be questioned, Salut and GL2U!
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby iAmCaffeine on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:51 am

This is quite possibly the best looking map I've seen.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Blakkrose on Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:36 am

iAmCaffeine wrote:This is quite possibly the best looking map I've seen.

Thank you but I do not understand why it takes more than a year to send her Live!!!
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby iAmCaffeine on Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:23 am

Blakkrose wrote:
iAmCaffeine wrote:This is quite possibly the best looking map I've seen.

Thank you but I do not understand why it takes more than a year to send her Live!!!


My only [slight] issue is that the monsters aren't defined in the legend, but it's simple enough to figure out.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Gilligan on Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:30 am

          Beta - Quenching

---The development period has concluded for the Temple of Jinn. All objections have had their time. The Foundry and I hereby brand this map with the Foundry Beta Brand. Let it be known that this map is now ready for BETA Play. After an extended period of time in BETA and once all quirks and issues have been resolved, the map will be put into Full Play (barring any Admins or Foundry Foreman vetoes).

Conquer Club, enjoy!

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While the map is in BETA Play, there are a couple of administrative tasks that are required of the mapmaker(s) in addition to the initial gameplay testing:
    1. Please ensure that the first post of the thread contains all the necessary information to help future visitors to the development thread; it's particularly important to ensure the most recent images are there, along with any helpful guides (such as gameplay quirks/nuances or the location/size of any starting neutrals etc.)
    2. It is the responsibility of the mapmaker(s) to ensure that they respond to further feedback in a timely and constructive manner.
    3. Write a "creative" map description and send it to the Foundry Foreman via PM. You're encouraged to post it into the first post of the thread as well; the description will be used to populate the maps database.


Gilligan
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Lieutenant Gilligan
 
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Blakkrose on Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:43 pm

iAmCaffeine wrote:
Blakkrose wrote:
iAmCaffeine wrote:This is quite possibly the best looking map I've seen.

Thank you but I do not understand why it takes more than a year to send her Live!!!


My only [slight] issue is that the monsters aren't defined in the legend, but it's simple enough to figure out.

I do not understand i suggest you mean.
the legend is 100% complete including bonuses related to monsters.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Gilligan on Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:54 pm

I believe he is saying that it doesn't say "the 7 monsters are Djinn, Ghul..." etc etc. I don't think it's necessary.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Gilligan on Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:31 pm

Something else I noticed:

"Reinforcements
Only 3 ARMIES per turn"

not "3 army"
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Lieutenant Gilligan
 
Posts: 12477
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 4:59 pm
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Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3)
Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3) Random Map Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (2)
Battle Royale Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (30) General Achievement (34)
Clan Achievement (8) Challenge Achievement (7) Map Contribution (10) Tournament Contribution (30) General Contribution (20)

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